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Force eTap v. Ultegra Di2 v. Dura Ace

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Force eTap v. Ultegra Di2 v. Dura Ace

Old 11-12-19, 11:49 AM
  #26  
Steve B.
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
My R8070 Di2 must be an anomaly because it's never been noisy.
Likewise, my 8050 system is very quiet. But then I don't wear my hearing aids on the bike. I'll maybe ask my buddies.
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Old 11-12-19, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Sure. I've never even seen it, but any lifelong bike rider from the U.S. in my age group (55) I think has always either secretly or not secretly wanted a bike with Campy/
FYI...depending on where you live in the US you'll find some local LBS wrenching knowledge/experience of Di2, but it isn't that common....EPS or eTap, is 10X less common. In my state capitol, I'm probably one of 3-5 Di2 bikes in a city of 300,000.
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Old 11-12-19, 11:59 AM
  #28  
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OP's profile says Portland...if it's Portland Oregon (I know there are other Portlands in the USA) it's a good sized city (2018 estimate of 650K) with a strong biking community (google mapped bike shops and there are quite a bit in the city proper) so if that's his Portland, he should have some pretty knowledgeable folks in the area. Portland, Maine...not sure about that.
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Old 11-12-19, 02:13 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Likewise, my 8050 system is very quiet. But then I don't wear my hearing aids on the bike. I'll maybe ask my buddies.
That's hilarious. Thanks for making my day!
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Old 11-12-19, 02:36 PM
  #30  
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I can definitely hear the Ultegra Di2 drivetrain on the big ring, while on the small ring I can't hear it at all. It's not loud or bothersome, but definitely audible. The sound comes from somewhere in the rear, and if I were to guess I'd say it's the chain going over the GS cage pulleys.
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Old 11-12-19, 03:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I've read a lot of drivetrain noise complaints from force axs owners. The new chain is not to blame, it's quiet on a Campy 12 drivetrain.
Wut. I thought AXS chains weren't compatible with anything else, due to larger diameter rollers?
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Old 11-12-19, 06:52 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post

The question for you all is, if my goal is crisper, smoother operation of the shifting process, is there one of these three that is preferable? I can't afford Red eTap or Dura Ace Di2, so those are out.
I don't think it was mentioned, but the shifting process is different between Force and Ultegra Di2. You should consider whether you like one versus the other. I liked the size of the shifters on SRAM as they are much easier to operate with thick winter gloves. However, I didn't like that you had an extra step with SRAM to shift the front and rear as you can't do them simultaneously. I had Di2 on my old bike and stayed with it on the new one. At this point I wouldn't buy a bike without electronic shifting.
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Old 11-12-19, 08:24 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Ultegra Di2 and Dura Ace Di2 use exactly the same battery. There should be no difference in battery life unless one is older than the other, one is stored in the cold / the other indoors, one bike is leaned where the shift button is bearing weight, etc.
Thanks Flash. I guess the next step is to switch batteries.
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Old 11-12-19, 09:10 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Rogus View Post
I don't think it was mentioned, but the shifting process is different between Force and Ultegra Di2. You should consider whether you like one versus the other. I liked the size of the shifters on SRAM as they are much easier to operate with thick winter gloves.
This is something that worries me, as I've started using the UDi2...it just doesn't seem like there's much there to shift while wearing gloves. Guess that's because bikes weren't meant to ride when it's cold out? J/k. In all seriousness though, much of my riding during the winter months will be indoors, but it's a consideration for those who will be riding outside year round in a cold climate!
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Old 11-12-19, 09:40 PM
  #35  
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About the noise, I just watched a GCN tech question and answer show with the same question. The best that they could figure was that the new shadow derailleur uses a higher tension spring on the cage which, makes sense, could cause more noise in the big ring.
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Old 11-12-19, 10:46 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by N00b_Cyclist View Post
This is something that worries me, as I've started using the UDi2...it just doesn't seem like there's much there to shift while wearing gloves. Guess that's because bikes weren't meant to ride when it's cold out? J/k. In all seriousness though, much of my riding during the winter months will be indoors, but it's a consideration for those who will be riding outside year round in a cold climate!
I've had Di2 for 6 years, ride year round in temps down to the teens Fahrenheit and have issues with pain from cold fingers. While I mis-shift occasionally, for the most part wearing layers of gloves under lobster gloves hasn't been a major issue for me with shifting Di2. You get used to being more careful. When I started using heated gloves even those issues went away.
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Old 11-12-19, 10:58 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Jack Tone View Post
About the noise, I just watched a GCN tech question and answer show with the same question. The best that they could figure was that the new shadow derailleur uses a higher tension spring on the cage which, makes sense, could cause more noise in the big ring.
Yeah that's the one video I was thinking about but couldn't find again on short notice. I do notice that when my chain does begin to get noisy, it's nearly always in the big ring. That said, I'm rarely in the small ring (I don't have many big climbs near me) so that could play a factor.
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Old 11-13-19, 12:15 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
OP's profile says Portland...if it's Portland Oregon (I know there are other Portlands in the USA) it's a good sized city (2018 estimate of 650K) with a strong biking community (google mapped bike shops and there are quite a bit in the city proper) so if that's his Portland, he should have some pretty knowledgeable folks in the area. Portland, Maine...not sure about that.
Sorry, yes, Oregon.
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Old 11-13-19, 12:21 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
My R8070 Di2 must be an anomaly because it's never been noisy.
Huh. I have to say, since I fixed this buzzing (bottle cage bolts/washers), my SLR02 with R5800 and a well-lube chain (muc-off Hydrodynamic) is almost silent.
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Old 11-13-19, 08:21 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Wut. I thought AXS chains weren't compatible with anything else, due to larger diameter rollers?
The max roller diameter for a normal #40 chain is .306 inch. The new axs chain is a #41 chain with a max roller diameter of .3125 inch. The official line is they are not compatible, but my testing with 400 miles on each of two chains on two campy 12 bikes showed no problem. The axs chain is also slightly narrower than a Campy chain.

The shifting with either chain has been flawless.

The axs chain may be too narrow to work with some 11 speed chain rings.
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Old 11-13-19, 03:03 PM
  #41  
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Huh. What's that, about 0.16mm... I suppose there could be that much slop as standard tolerance?
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Old 11-13-19, 05:10 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Huh. What's that, about 0.16mm... I suppose there could be that much slop as standard tolerance?
Rollers are precision ground to very tight tolerances, probably under 0.001 inch. Campy rollers will check very close to 0.305 and sram axs rollers will check 0.3115.

Using the axs chain on a cassette made for a #40 chain will raise the contact point on each tooth slightly.
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Old 11-13-19, 05:45 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rayooo View Post
I've got around 2100 miles on a new eTap AXS (Red) bike. I was a bit apprehensive going SRAM considering I'm a long time Shimano user.

So far, the AXS has been fantastic. No issues whatsoever, the "4 batteries" for me are really two as the brifter batteries need chaining once a year. The derailleur batteries charge very quick and I get hundreds of miles between charges - I've never been even close to running low on a ride.

I got used to the different shifting method in no time and my other bike is Ultegra which I still ride also.

Having said that I'm absolutely sure I'd have loved a Di2 setup also.
10,000 mi have not changed brifter battries, still on green light
Charge derailleur batteries the first of the month, every month, overkill, but easy to remember
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Old 11-14-19, 10:31 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
To be clear, if I thoroughly clean and degrease the chains, let dry, then apply something very viscous like Finish Line Wet Lube and wipe dry, the Di2 is nearly silent. For a while. But dust and road dirt are really attracted to that viscosity of lube and start to gunk up the chain, even if I wipe after every ride. Since it's not a one-step lube like RNR, I have to clean, degrease, and reapply.

The RNR Gold, which is a dry lube but also an all-in-one cleaner + lube, is much easier to apply but doesn't get the chain as near-silent as the wet lube. This has been true on my 2 Di2s and eTap. I'm hoping the SCC Slick will give me the performance and silence of the wet lube, with the lower maintenance associated with the RNR. If it does, it will be worth the $25.

The reasons I believe it's not an alignment or setup issue (aside from the fact that I've had two techs from two different LBSs check it out) are 1) that it's dead silent when applying the wet lube, nearly silent with RNR, and slowly gets louder as dirt accumulates...if something were amiss it would make noise all the time, and 2) shifting performance is exceptional (and yes I know how to microadjust both Di2 and eTap and have dialed it in when changing out wheels). It's a common pattern. Lube it, it gets quiet. Ride 30-50 miles, it gets louder around the 40-50 mile mark. Again, SoCal is a very dry and dusty place, so my riding conditions may be very different from yours.

What boggles my mind is how quiet my 105 stays because I don't give that the same level of care and attention. I think there may be something to the theory that chunkier/lower end drivetrains being more forgiving of dirt/grime due to not having the same tight tolerances as higher end drivetrains.

Also, not sure if linking to Weight Weenies forum (which I'm not a member of, but when I was doing a Google search on the noise I came across it) is allowed but there is a thread about Di2 noise, so it's not that I got the 2 bum sets in the lot.
Yeah I stay on top of maintenance/cleaning. In other words I never keep a dirty bike. I use Dumond Tech Lite lubrication. I use just enough to lube the rollers and keep it supple. If you're used to taking your chain off to clean your bike, you'll know what I mean. If there are obvious grease marks all over the cassette after a ride there is too much lube.
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Old 11-21-19, 08:42 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
My R8070 Di2 must be an anomaly because it's never been noisy.
what are you comparing it to?
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Old 11-21-19, 09:17 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
what are you comparing it to?
Dura Ace 7700 and SRAM Rival are on my other bikes. The only noise that jumps out at me when I'm riding is the sound of my tires on the road. I've never experienced any racket.
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Old 11-21-19, 04:21 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
10,000 mi have not changed brifter battries, still on green light
Charge derailleur batteries the first of the month, every month, overkill, but easy to remember
Same here. Had the brifter batteries for two years and still Green! I charge the derailleur batteries like every 6 weeks just out of habit.
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Old 11-21-19, 04:58 PM
  #48  
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Noisy chains aren't necessarily less efficient than a quiet chain. A quiet chain can be over lubricated and add resistance.
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Old 11-21-19, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mansram01 View Post
Same here. Had the brifter batteries for two years and still Green! I charge the derailleur batteries like every 6 weeks just out of habit.
And to add to that, e-tap is on my climbing bike, so a lot of gear changes per mile
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Old 11-21-19, 09:37 PM
  #50  
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I have Di2 on one bike and Etap 11 on the other

No issues with either one so far. But, by far, I do like the one big paddle on each etap shifter way more than the fiddly little ones on Di2. And I think the shift logic / user interface of etap makes as much if not more sense than Di2. Granted you can't shift both front and rear at the exact same time but that just means an extra split second in order to shift both derailleurs one after the other. Also I tried syncro on my Di2 assuming it would revolutionize how I rode my bike. In the end it almost never shifted the gears as efficiently as I could myself in order to match the exact road conditions in the moment.
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