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Wahoo Elemnt - transferring routes from a tablet

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Wahoo Elemnt - transferring routes from a tablet

Old 09-09-18, 07:48 PM
  #26  
JohnJ80
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Originally Posted by HobbesOnTour
Hmmm....
I'm not exactly an expert in technology, but that sounds like an option.
My understanding of a hotspot was that the phone takes an existing wifi/data connection and makes it available to other wireless devices?
I'll check it out!
Thanks!
it’s creating its own WiFi network - that’s the name and password you have to give it when you turn it on - and then connecting that network to the internet over either another WiFi network or the cellular network.

But if I’m understanding this correctly, all you need is for the bike computer and the tablet to be on the same subnet so they can connect. You just happen to be on a network that has to internet connection. If so, you should be able to connect using the method described for the Nano. If you do have an internet connection then you can use the standard means.

What i I don’t know is if you can make that work with only the phone and the Elemnt. It should work with the phone as hotspot and both the tablet and the Elemnt connected to the hotspot/phone WiFi network.

Hope that that made sense. I’d test it for you but I’m on my way out of town and can’t do it until later this week.

J.
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Old 09-10-18, 09:54 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by HobbesOnTour


Currently, using OSMand on the tablet I can plan a route and transfer it to my phone all without internet. To load that route in the app needs a momentary internet connection, so this is where the process fails.
In rereading this, Hobbes, I realize that you make a very important and terrific observation: unlike any other service I know, the Osmand app allows the user to create routes and save them as gpx files, all done while the phone or tablet is off-line. This feature should not be taken lightly. It indeed makes possible the feature you have discussed. Even if a cyclist is away from all wifi and data connections on an African safari, he can still use the Osmand app to create and save any number of gpx tracks. This really works!! Amazing!! Using a travel router such as the HooToo Nano properly connected to an android device, the saved files can then be transferred to any turn by turn capable device with disk drive using NTFS, FAT 16/32 file structure. I know that this works with a Garmin Edge 500, but obviously includes many devices. If you can connect a PC via usb to any bike computer and transfer gpx/tcx files to its routes or courses file folder, then this should all work as described earlier in this thread. Tip: to find gpx files saved by Osmand on android devices, go to Android/data/net.osmand.dev/files/tracks.

Note: although iOS devices will connect to a router, only limited file sharing is permitted. As I recall you can only share photos, videos, and music after connecting an iPad to the Hootoo Nano.

Last edited by sierrabob; 09-10-18 at 10:18 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 09-10-18, 10:18 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by sierrabob
In rereading this, Hobbes, I realize that you make a very important and terrific observation: unlike any other service I know, the Osmand app allows the user to create routes and save them as gpx files, all done while the phone or tablet is off-line. This feature should not be taken lightly. It indeed makes possible the feature you have discussed. Even if a cyclist is away from all wifi and data connections on an African safari, he can still use the Osmand app to create and save any number of gpx tracks. This really works!! Amazing!! Using a travel router such as the HooToo Nano properly connected to an android device, the saved files can then be transferred to any turn by turn capable device with disk drive using NTFS, FAT 16/32 file structure. I know that this works with a Garmin Edge 500, but obviously includes many devices. If you can connect a PC via usb to any bike computer and see its files, then it should work with the HooToo Nano as well. Tip: to find gpx files saved by Osmand on android devices, go to Android/data/net.osmand.dev/files/tracks.

Note: although iOS devices will connect to a router, only limited file sharing is permitted. As I recall you can only share photos, videos, and music after connecting an iPad to the Hootoo Nano.
That's very true, Bob, I'm a genius!

OSMand is perfect for the scenario you have described - and which I want to utilise.

I've tried explaining to Wahoo a few times what it would mean if they dropped the need for a the momentary connection. They don't seem to get it, or at least, don't see it as any kind of a priority.

That's why I'm investigating this method.

As of tomorrow I'm away on the bike for 3 weeks, so I won't be able to follow up on this until I'm back.

I appreciate all your inputs so far. If you discover anything else I'd love to know!
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Old 09-10-18, 10:21 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80

it’s creating its own WiFi network - that’s the name and password you have to give it when you turn it on - and then connecting that network to the internet over either another WiFi network or the cellular network.

But if I’m understanding this correctly, all you need is for the bike computer and the tablet to be on the same subnet so they can connect. You just happen to be on a network that has to internet connection. If so, you should be able to connect using the method described for the Nano. If you do have an internet connection then you can use the standard means.

What i I don’t know is if you can make that work with only the phone and the Elemnt. It should work with the phone as hotspot and both the tablet and the Elemnt connected to the hotspot/phone WiFi network.

Hope that that made sense. I’d test it for you but I’m on my way out of town and can’t do it until later this week.

J.
Thanks, John.
I tried playing around with Hotspots last night but had no success. Some of the hotspot apps are rubbish.
I think, even if I do get to make a hotspot and connect the Elemnt to the phone or tablet, the issue will still be with the transferring of files. There doesn't seem to be a method in android to do that.
I'm away for the next 3 weeks, so won't have a chance to play around anymore with this.
I appreciate all your input.

Many thanks
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Old 09-11-18, 07:13 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80

But the Elemnt has Bluetooth. So does the your your tablet. If you have the route as a gpx resident on your tablet however you’ve done that you can then get it into the Wahoo app and then from the Wahoo app onto the element via Bluetooth without the internet. The Bluetooth connection does not require the internet, it is a point to point connection to the Wahoo Elemnt that replaces the usb cable and is its direct analog in this example.



This is a very cool thread because it has really made me think about the ways to create and transfer files while off line. I came up with a glossary of terms that helps me sort through this stuff: 1) mobile hotspot--allows sharing an internet connection using wifi; 2) travel router--uses usb connection to a flash drive to allow file sharing on a local wireless network 3) bluetooth--allows limited file sharing between certain devices.

You can't use a mobile hotspot for file sharing. It's only for sharing internet. But if you have a travel router (e.g., HooToo Nano) available, you can share gpx, tcx, and fit files from an android phone or tablet to a bike computer. John has suggested using Bluetooth for file sharing. John, you're right! It is possible! Bluetooth can be used for more than connecting keyboards and headphones; however, in my testing, the file types one can transfer are limited to jpg, mp3, and pdf. While workarounds exist for transferring other file types, these require rooting or renaming files on a target android device. These tricks probably won't work with a bike computer. Bottom line: with no online connection whatsoever, I think you're stuck with using the Osmand app for route design and a travel router to transfer the gpx file to a bike computer. While I hope I'm wrong, I just don't see any other easy way to do this.
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Old 09-12-18, 07:25 AM
  #31  
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this is a long thread with a lot of long posts (and a lot of long quotes) so I didn't read it all. I think what you are looking for is usb otg (on the go) which allows your tablet to act as a usb host. I am not sure exactly how to go into the file system on an android tablet, and you would need a cable. I feel like most tablets have usb otg nowadays, but yours might not. A GPS normally looks like a disk to a usb host.
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Old 09-12-18, 08:54 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by sierrabob
This is a very cool thread because it has really made me think about the ways to create and transfer files while off line. I came up with a glossary of terms that helps me sort through this stuff: 1) mobile hotspot--allows sharing an internet connection using wifi; 2) travel router--uses usb connection to a flash drive to allow file sharing on a local wireless network 3) bluetooth--allows limited file sharing between certain devices.

You can't use a mobile hotspot for file sharing. It's only for sharing internet. But if you have a travel router (e.g., HooToo Nano) available, you can share gpx, tcx, and fit files from an android phone or tablet to a bike computer. John has suggested using Bluetooth for file sharing. John, you're right! It is possible! Bluetooth can be used for more than connecting keyboards and headphones; however, in my testing, the file types one can transfer are limited to jpg, mp3, and pdf. While workarounds exist for transferring other file types, these require rooting or renaming files on a target android device. These tricks probably won't work with a bike computer. Bottom line: with no online connection whatsoever, I think you're stuck with using the Osmand app for route design and a travel router to transfer the gpx file to a bike computer. While I hope I'm wrong, I just don't see any other easy way to do this.
another alternative - I have a Hammerhead Karoo bike computer. While it has crappy navigation, it is android based and I run both Osmand and Komoot on it after sideloading them with the android developer tools. Because of the android ecosystem there is probably some android app that allows file transfer over Bluetooth or some other app to make this work.
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Old 09-12-18, 11:23 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80

another alternative - I have a Hammerhead Karoo bike computer. While it has crappy navigation, it is android based and I run both Osmand and Komoot on it after sideloading them with the android developer tools. Because of the android ecosystem there is probably some android app that allows file transfer over Bluetooth or some other app to make this work.
Sure sounds worth looking into, John. Karoo has mixed reviews, but it may be getting better with updates. I'd try to see if it can be recognized as a Bluetooth device or if the adb connection method works.
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Old 09-12-18, 01:03 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by sierrabob
Sure sounds worth looking into, John. Karoo has mixed reviews, but it may be getting better with updates. I'd try to see if it can be recognized as a Bluetooth device or if the adb connection method works.
if you mean “adb” as in developers tools - yes it does. I’m sure there’s an app that leverages that to move files somewhere. I’ll look into it tonight. Using adb is how I loaded Osmand and Komoot. The Syncios backup software uses that method.

Karoo has a great screen, terrible nav software, and the computer software is like a buggy Edge 520 but improving fairly quickly. Osmand and Komoot for navigation just kill any nav software out there including Garmin for map quality. So for touring, that’s my choice but only because of ability to sideload. I bought in this spring and spring 2019 is a better bet presuming the startup makes it.
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Old 09-15-18, 06:22 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
this is a long thread with a lot of long posts (and a lot of long quotes) so I didn't read it all. I think what you are looking for is usb otg (on the go) which allows your tablet to act as a usb host. I am not sure exactly how to go into the file system on an android tablet, and you would need a cable. I feel like most tablets have usb otg nowadays, but yours might not. A GPS normally looks like a disk to a usb host.
This is a great suggestion. I don't have a Wahoo Elemnt to test, but my Garmin bike computers and smartwatches don't make the connection properly with OTG. When using a microUSB OTG cable, they connect to my android phone, but the USB drive shows 0% with all these devices. Only newer USB 3.0 flash drives seem to work. With two flash drives that I've tested, I can cut and paste files between phone and drive. Don't understand why it's not possible with bike computers. Has anyone successfully made OTG connection to a bike computer?

Last edited by sierrabob; 09-16-18 at 08:25 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 09-16-18, 06:25 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by sierrabob
Has anyone successfully made OTG connection to a bike computer?
I've used the otg with Garmin computer on a rooted Nexus 7/2013 using "stickmount" app.
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Old 09-17-18, 09:03 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
I've used the otg with Garmin computer on a rooted Nexus 7/2013 using "stickmount" app.
Happy to report that I can now connect an android phone to a Garmin bike computer using an OTG cable. No root required! This basically resolves the question posed by the OP and allows the user to create and transfer routes to a bike computer from a phone or tablet without wifi or data connection. First, download the USB OTG checker app to verify your android device allows OTG connection. You'll also need the EZ File Explorer app. You then need to enable USB debugging for your device. Next, open the EZ File Explorer app, connect to your device with the OTG cable and wait for the USB drive to display. If 0% drive usage is indicated, then another app is interfering. Go into Apps/Settings and choose "no" for the "draw over other apps" function on similar file sharing/management apps you have installed. No guarantees here, but easy enough to try.

Last edited by sierrabob; 09-17-18 at 11:44 AM. Reason: more detail
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Old 09-17-18, 12:06 PM
  #38  
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Example of moving a TCX file from android phone to Garmin Edge device using OTG cable and EZ File Explorer app. No root, no wifi, no data, no Bluetooth:


Last edited by sierrabob; 09-17-18 at 12:07 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 09-17-18, 07:41 PM
  #39  
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sierrabob, thanks for trying this, it looks really useful. I wonder if I can get a cable for my Garmin 800.
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Old 09-17-18, 11:21 PM
  #40  
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Assuming we're talking android here, you just use the mini-USB cable from your Garmin and connect with a USB-A female to micro-USB OTG cable. Widely available for under $6.
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Old 09-27-18, 08:36 AM
  #41  
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I got a cable, going to try it in a bit.

ETA: did you mean ES file manager?

Last edited by unterhausen; 09-27-18 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 09-28-18, 05:21 PM
  #42  
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ES File Explorer File Manager is the correct name in Play store. If not working check with zip drive. Good luck.
​​​​​
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Old 09-28-18, 06:08 PM
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Once you have the correct settings established, this is what you should see. With this old Garmin Edge 500 it takes 30 seconds for the drive to show in ES File Explorer. Also, you may need to uninstall file cleaning apps such as Power Clean and reinstall File Explorer for the app to work correctly.



OTG cable from Android device to mini-USB cable. This allows connection and transfer of files to/from Garmin Edge 500 with ES File Explorer app.
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Old 09-30-18, 07:55 AM
  #44  
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thanks, it worked. I installed a file manager, but I'm pretty sure I just used the native android storage manager. When I plugged in my garmin, I got a notification and I just went from there. Not sure how often I'll use this, but I have been in the situation where I needed to d/l a route while traveling
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Old 09-30-18, 09:58 AM
  #45  
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Nice. I use the feature more for uploading rides to Garmin Connect and Strava when no PC is available. Good for USB only devices like Garmin 500 and 800.
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Old 10-01-18, 11:10 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by sierrabob
Once you have the correct settings established, this is what you should see. With this old Garmin Edge 500 it takes 30 seconds for the drive to show in ES File Explorer. Also, you may need to uninstall file cleaning apps such as Power Clean and reinstall File Explorer for the app to work correctly.



OTG cable from Android device to mini-USB cable. This allows connection and transfer of files to/from Garmin Edge 500 with ES File Explorer app.
Hi Bob,
I'm back after 3 wonderful weeks on the road.
I see you've made great progress! Well done!

I've ordered a HooToo to work with my tablet. My tablet is old and has no OTG compatability, but one thing this trip reinforced is the difference in plotting a route on the tablet vs a smartphone.

I'll come back with an update once it arrives.

I appreciate everyone's efforts.

Thanks all!
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Old 10-03-18, 10:53 AM
  #47  
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Well, the HooToo nano arrived.

The first issue was that the tablet is incompatible with the app (old tablet), so I switched to my telephone (Samsung Moto G Play running Android 7.1.1)

Installed the app, set up the HooToo, but it:
Failed to recognise the Elemnt (Disk 1 not installed)
Failed to recognise camera (Fuji) (Disk 1 not installed)
Did recognise an external Hard Disk, so I'm presuming that means that the HooToo is working as it should.

Tried another phone, a cheapy Chinese Cubot. Same as the Samsung

Went back to the tablet and could connect with the Hootoo without the app, but the outcome was the same - disk was not installed.

I also plugged a card reader into the HooToo unit and I could read from that.

Interestingly, the interface ran better on the Cubot rather than the Samsung. Logging in through the app was more often unsuccessful than not and the browser interface was slow and the screen was all but impossible to navigate around.

Since neither phone is OTG compatible I'm back to square 1.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be grateful!
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Old 10-04-18, 03:49 PM
  #48  
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Sorry that you're having trouble with this. The Moto play is made by Motorola, not Samsung, correct? Also, are you able to move files using the local WiFi between a drive that does connect to Hootoo and your phone? Try using different cables and restart your phone. Go into apps settings and make sure you have not given permission to other file transfer apps to write over this app.
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Old 10-06-18, 04:47 PM
  #49  
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Just one more tip: make sure you wait at least 30 seconds after making connection for drive to show up. A good friend had an Elemnt Bolt on the ride this morning. If I'd had my OTG cable with me I could have tested file transfer from my Moto G5+ without using internet. She actually could have really used it as her GPX file didn't load properly. Next time.
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Old 12-09-18, 07:03 AM
  #50  
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Hi folks, just wanted to update this thread with some good news!

A few weeks ago I lost my darn phone, so had to get a new one, a Redmi 6. I've been sick the last few days, so I've had a chance to play around and I've been able to make it work as described above!

So now, I can create a route, totally offline in OSMand, and using an OTG cable (and adapter) transfer it to the Elemnt device and away I go.

Now, OSMand is far from the best route planner, and adjusting/altering/customising the route on a phone is not the most relaxing of tasks, but for anyone on a long, long distance tour where advance planning of every day is not viable, and/or for those who are venturing places where internet connectivity is an issue this functionality is a Godsend, in my opinion.

Many thanks to all the the contributors for advice and suggestions!
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