PotIatch

Hi,

I'm a noob in the world of Steel and/or touring bikes.

The brands in the title are the ones I've know/read/talked about the most. One thing that usually is said, by the manufacturer especially, is that they make (Steel) frames wits geometrics and specs that are "the most common". So you, a bike shop or welder(!), anywhere in the world, is able to get you back in the saddle.




Here's my experience and question on the matter,

This post is based on my newly bought frame. A Velo Orange Piolet. I understand it's somewhat an extreme example in some aspects however it's also made in that "parts available anywhere" manner.

73mm bsa, QR 135mm hub in the rear. It has clearance for 29×2.4 or 27.5×3.0 and only support disc brakes though.




So here's my question for you with insights as mechanics or bike shop workers as well you who've been touring, locally or globally:

How "valuable" are these standards?


Has the 135mm hub saved you were a bigger hub would've canceled the tour? Are disc brake parts available?





My (short) experience consists of thouroughly looking through my 3 local bike shops:


• The elder gentleman's shop with touring, city, road steel bikes only.


• The younger trender “We grew from Bmx to Gravel bikes”


​​​​​• The “We buy, fix, sell your bike”.





European internet shops:


• The biggest ones and specialist importers.


• Forums like this one and the biggest Swedish forum with it's buy/sell page.


Conclusion/conundrum:

The gentleman shop can get me almost anything when it comes to dynamo hubs NOS break/shift lever, racks or jtek fidgets. He didn't have any crankset or BB though since They're "mtb".

The trender shop could get all the drivetrain parts etc. for setting up a sturdy 1x11 shimano or sram but isn't in to build touring geared mash ups with friction shifters.





Lastly:
Getting a pair of used 135 hub, 29×2-2.4 or 650b×50mm isn't happening. I see up to five listings a day with 142 hubs or "Boost" wheels and cranksets. In the two months that I've daily been looking at the For Sale list there hasn't been a single wheelset or rear wheel with 135/29/650b.

Buying such a pre built wheelset from the Web shops seems almost equally rare.


So my last question is more philosophical:

When do the "common anywhere" parts become exotic, hard to find or become custom build parts for this with the know how and stock only?


(... Or are these "Anywhere in the world bikes" made to be used on Russian tundras, Mongolians deserts and Perus mountains first and foremost? <¬ jk).

What are your takes on all of this?

Best,
P

3speed

A lot of "29er" and 650b wheel-sets have mtb, or Boost spacing, because they're "mtb" sizes. 700c is the exact same size as the "29er" BS, but without the stupid marketing term. But to answer your question, a lot of your trouble is being in the US or perhaps high population western Europe, where marketing the latest crap is king. You'll find 700c rims and 135/100mm hubs most anywhere but third world countries. You'll likely even find limited supply of cheap ones there, and some tires that probably won't be suitable for your needs(but may get you by). A lot of the reason you see a few different newer mtb "standard" hubs is because they keep changing it, so people have to keep selling their nice wheel-set when they get a new bike every few years. If you're just touring in the US or western Europe, go ahead and get one of the new "standards." You'll probably be able to find parts without too much difficulty if something fails. If you plan to leave the US, I'd recommend skipping the new stuff and sticking to 700c(29er if you must), or better yet, 26" wheels with standard 135/100mm hubs.

Rim breaks are also probably a safer choice for touring in very poor countries. I have seen cable disk breaks in larger populated areas in Central America, and you'll find them in Asia since they make all of the bike parts there, but they might not be as common everywhere. Personally, I've used cable disk breaks for thousands of miles(likely tens of thousands but I don't keep track) without a single issue, and a spare set of break pads is tiny and doesn't take much room. I'm comfortable touring on them basically anywhere. I would avoid the new "flat mount" disks and stick to ISO or post mount. As for whether using standard 135/100mm wheels has saved me, no, because I'm not very heavy, pack light, and ride light. I've never had a wheel problem on tour. I've been places where modern hubs would have ruined a tour if I had a problem.

If a bike shop is so specialized that they can't easily, and knowledgeably set you up a triple crank drive-train, go to another shop. That's in the mechanics 101 class, and they must have skipped some chapters of the basics...

Nice frame. Congratulations. I'm sure you'll love it.

Happy Feet

Yes to the above.

I'm currently considering a potential future issue with my fat bike, a Specialized Fatboy that has proprietary (or odd) hub spacing. I love the bike but if a wheel failure occurs I would have to special order from specialized as there aren't any off the shelf common alternatives or look for a wheel builder. If I were building an expedition type fat bike down the road I would think about that and try to choose the wheelset that is easiest to replace and build the bike around that. For a traditional bike I think that's the generic 26 mtb wheelset but 700c is not too uncommon either. 27.5 or 650b gets less common.

In your case the 29r (700c) in a common hub size is a real bonus. You get a wide range of tire size and can put your money into quality components that could easily be swapped over to another wheel if busted on the road.

I wouldn't worry too much about disc as you can install new rotors, pads and cables before a trip if you want and probably last the duration. If it's so extended that you wear through that odds are you will stop in a populated place in time to reinstall new parts again.

Rob_E

Seems like these are valuable questions to ask before you buy a frame. Now that you have it, why question the wisdom of a 135mm rear hub and disc brakes? Are you already thinking of changing frames?

Where are you planning on touring?

I don't think this is really the case with any of the manufacturers that you've mentioned. Maybe they have one or two offerings in this category, but most are trying to keep up with what's popular. Some try for some backward compatibility, but most of those companies are chasing the trends or making the trends and so are trying to set themselves apart from the most generic, and therefore most common options. More often they might have a "parts bin" frame, which is not necessarily "parts available anywhere," but is more that if you are in the habit of building your bikes up from the frame or swapping out parts, you may have enough pieces laying around to get this thing running.

To me, a "parts available anywhere" bike would have rim brakes and a 68mm bottom bracket. That said, I haven't been "anywhere." I've only been in the U.S. In the U.S., I feel like there is no longer a standard. Since almost ever item is two days away by mail, and since what's popular and common seems to be in constant flux, it's best to go with what works for you and hope for the best. I guess because I have no plans to travel beyond the reach of a delivery truck, I'm not worried about "parts available anywhere." However there are still plenty of bikes that have been in use, and many manufacturers, still have some likely common traits: 135mm rear hub, 100mm front hub, 68mm bottom bracket, rim brakes, 26" or 700c wheels with probably no wider than 2" tires. Having these standards increases the odds that random shop will have parts on hand, but it doesn't guarantee. And, as you are seeing, standards in generic, complete bikes are not necessarily what's currently popular in the build-your-custom-bike world.

My tours are generally 2 weeks or less, and I start out with a bike that I've recently gone over to cover the obvious problems. I've never had to replace brakes or wheels or a bottom bracket partway through the trip. I have had brake pads wear down, but I have a spare set. I have had a cog on my rear wheel wear to the point where it was skipping, but it was still rideable, so I dealt with it after I got home. On a longer trip, I would have had to plan around a part being delivered. Not the end of the world. My feeling/preference is to build and ride the bike you will enjoy, and just be aware that not every part will be replaceable in every shop you find.

But as Happy Feet points out, 29er wheels are just 700c wheels, but generally narrower. You will likely find plenty of 700c wheelsets compatible with your bike, although you may find that disc brake availability becomes the sticking point. You will not be getting the benefit of the wide tire clearances offered by your bike, but I'm guessing you'll find something. The last time I bought a complete wheel, it came from Taylor Wheels (https://www.taylor-wheels.com/). A quick look shows wheel options with 135 spacing, disc brakes, and diameters of 27.5, 28(i.e. 700), or 29.

mstateglfr 

My first take is that your post is like those standardized test questions where I have to go back and read it multiple times to understand/remember the points.

The rest of my takes are below.


Very valuable as what you list is all very established and common spec. Many big box retail bikes are spec'd with a lot of components that would work, which means that there is a higher likelihood of a random shop being able to help.
73mm threaded BB shell is what most all MTBs were for a couple decades. Disc brakes are on all sorts of bikes for a couple decades now and even entry big box bikes have disc brakes. 135mm rear was on every MTB for decades, and many CX as well as hybrids too. Many 142mm TA wheels can convert to 135mm still too. This stuff is so established that its going to be available in more places.

A 135mm hub spacing hasnt saved me personally, no. But that doesnt make it any less legitimate to use a 135mm hub.

Not sure where you are, but 100/135mm 29/700c wheelsets are super common around me. online examples-https://www.ebay.com/p/1300583498 and https://www.performancebike.com/qual...we8507/p360644. Our local coop has a ton of wheels like this. Heck, I donated about 15 wheelsets back in July to them that were all 100/135mm QR.

I guess they common anywhere parts become exotic about 20 years after they are no longer commonly spec'd on bikes. Or if you ride in places where there simply arent many bikes(like parts of Africa, the Gobi Desert, etc etc).

Yes if a bike is built to be ridden anywhere, then its meant to be used anywhere(within obvious reason). The owner must make sure components are in good condition and have knowledge on how to fix common breakdowns still.

Tourist in MSN

I had trouble following the rambling, but if I read the question right, it is what do you need for a reliable touring bike? And some specifics were tossed out for discussion, 135mm rear dropout spacing, 73mm bottom bracket spacing, disc or not, etc. And apparently you have a frame that only takes disc brakes.

Think robust, reliable, easy to repair and easily replaceable components. You need to spend some quality time doing internet researching instead of expecting a bunch of people to act as a committee to design the perfect bike for you.

pdlamb

But we did such a great job designing that horse!

djb

you made me laugh and nearly spit out my fermented yak milk.

djb

Potlach, are you planning an upcoming trip or is this all theoretical?

Simply put, if you learn good basic bike mechanics and know your hubs etc are properly greased, properly adjusted if ball and cone, properly adjusted bottom bracket, spoke tensions and wheels suited to you and load weight, your bike will be very reliable.

If you haven't done any bike mechanics, it's like anything, you learn bit by bit, not overnight.
And if not interested, find a good bike store with experienced mechanics.

And don't abuse your loaded bike by riding it like a bull in a china shop.

Tourist in MSN

I do not think the guy that runs this website has updated it for a few years and many of the photos are over a decade old. But if you wanted to see what some touring bikes look like that are in far off places, this is a very good collection of photos. Unfortunately you can't get much detailed info on bike specs from photos, but you might get some ideas.
https://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/fullyloaded

Most people posting to Crazy Guy on a Bike with trip logs include a section on the bike, you could check out what various people are saying. If you specifically wanted a bike that was capable of going to outer mongolia or some such place, look for trip logs in those kinds of places to see what types of bikes people used there.
https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/

The crazy guy site also has forums and articles.

In my previous post I did not mean to be dismissive, but I have grown tired of spending a lot of time crafting good advice and posting it, then finding that the original poster had completely different ideas in mind but had not elaborated. If you have some specific questions, we can address those with our various opinions.

pdlamb

Let me take a slightly different approach to answering OP's question(s).

Bona fides: I've got a touring bike and a spare touring bike, 20 and 12 years old, with about 40,000 and 25,000 miles, respectively, on the frames. I'm still riding one of them almost every day. Just about any bike you buy from a reputable bike manufacturer should be able to carry you, on reasonably paved roads, for 5-10,000 miles before anything more than brake pads, tires, and chains need to be replaced. Those are pretty standard parts, you can still buy chains for 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 rear-geared bikes. Any of the big players in the stock touring bike market do a good job of picking out parts, normally with an eye to durability, so you should not need heroic efforts to keep a Trek, Surly, Fuji, or REI touring bike going for 15-20,000 miles, perhaps 4-5 years of normal use, or longer. The only thing you'll need to watch out for is a decent low gear: some models, some years, don't get anywhere near the 20 gear inch "gold standard."

Now my bikes are old enough to have fairly standard parts: square taper bottom brackets and cranks, 1-1/4" threadless and 1" threaded headsets and stems, 27.2 mm seatposts. As those have worn out (well, not the headsets yet!), parts have been available. There are orphan standards, but those are usually pushed on lightweight/racing bikes first. (See also Standards in the Bicycle Industry for an entertaining and informative rant.) Touring models usually use older standards, things that have lasted long enough to build up some market share, and so parts should be available for the foreseeable future.

So if you're new to bicycles, and are thinking about getting one, go ahead and buy one. They'll cost $1,000 +/- $500 in the U.S. market. If you want more bling, go to an experienced, reputable custom builder, like Bilenky, Co-motion, Moots, Rodriguez, (all in the U.S.). Your can expect your new bike to last 5 years, maybe more. After three or four years, look at what's new, and think carefully about what you want that's different from your old bike. By that time you'll have specific ideas about what you'd like to change in your new bike, and you can start to plan for an informed decision on your second bike.

Happy Feet

That is some serious touring bike eye candy.

Tourist in MSN

Yup. I got some good ideas from that site years ago when I was building up a bike.

djb

geez louise yes.

what stood out right away was how it is obviously before bikepacking became popular, and most of the bikes have loads of crap and panniers on them.
I still reckon that for long trips, and unless you are in your 20s and dont give a second thought to being uncomfortable, it sure is handy to have panniers and space for spare food and water.

but then Im an old fart like most of you folks here.