GeeTheCee

The tricky part my gravel ride almost technical. There sections of infill and rip-rap where you can easily slide on on a narrower tire (like a 25-28c). It also gets muddy and snowy. If I pick up a group ride on the road, they can get fairly fast; more like 25mph than 30. So, yeah, it’s a tough ask but I’m leaning towards stability in the woods and I think, as I acclimate to this bike (and lose a couple pounds), I’ll get faster on the pavement.

BTW, loved crits. In my 30’s and 40’s (60 now, darn it) I raced weekends along with training races once or twice a week. Love the ebb and flo and bumping elbows. My default road ride size was around 23c inflated between 110-125 or so. (Conti’s, Michelin’s, Vedersteen’s). So you can see where I’m coming from.

I’ve made a decision for now. Will post a reply to the group and thanks for your suggestions

redlude97

Do you have a PM? What does your NP look like? W/kg for those crits?

Metieval

"butter" it is slower than your 18 year old Bianchi Axis on cyclo tires. Like I said drop some 32 GP 5000 on it, which will be one of the fastest you can get unless maybe jon bon pass at 35c. anything outside of that factor will be the bike itself. (It was you comparing two bikes, not me! so i won't throw in the engine factor)

chas58

I get it. FYI - the thing that surprised me most about the G-One is that it is a great snow tire. It thrives on bad weather, muddy gravel, wet asphalt, snow. Its all I'll ride in the winter. Obviously it is horrible in sticky mud, but other than that it loves winter.

I joke with my kids that I was just barely passed by someone 1/4 my age at my last crit. They got a hoot out of that.

redlude97

How are you determining that then? The difference between edging someone half a wheel in a sprint can be hundreds of watts

u235

Hutchinson Overide 35 or 38 (I have 38). Great road/gravel tire. Tubeless and durable, medium thread life. Rolls great on road. My primary road tire mixed with gravel. A little expensive.

Continental SpeedRide 42. Not tubless but VERY compliant, better off road than Overide when things get damp or deep. Speed and comfort level easily adjustable with pressure. Good tread life. My go to gravel/road tire. It is light and cheap.
Just about all of my rides are mixed terrain and is with one of those two tires or a combination of both (Overide back, Conti front).

redlude97

If you're not on the front, you're already putting out 30-50% less power than the guys at the front which is probably 50-150 watts depending on the time. BRR quotes rolling resistance numbers at set speed(18mph) because RR increases with speed RR (watts) = CRR * speed (m/s) * load (N) so you really need to look at CRR differences to determine wattage losses at various speeds, which is why you can sit in with wide slicks. I do it too, show up to group rides with my gravel bike but I can never stand a chance in any of the sprints or attacks compared to road bike.

chas58

Agreed. Which is why I quoted 27mph speed. Its a ~40 watt difference (32mm race tires vs 40mm G-one in the OP). If I'm just gravel riding on my own, it may be a trivial difference (maybe 1 mph). In a pack at speed it makes a noticeable difference (my tires, my experience).

to the original topic - Greg isn't going to get a lot faster going to a better gravel tire because the G-One has one of the best Crr numbers. Riding alone it is close to a wash - but riding in his group it depends on how hard they are going. A race slick is the best case scenario but isn't going to be something you ride on gravel.

GeeTheCee

Hey thanks everybody.

Well, this has been an education!

I think what you witnessed here was me panicking. My first post to this message board was after my first road ride, on a new bike, in a group. Prior to that I had done a solo ride in the woods over dirt and gravel. In the woods I flew but on pavement, with the group ride, I felt sluggish. I blamed the tires.

I’m still dialing the bike in but what I wasn’t accounting for was the fact that it’s a different bike too, and new bike can take adjustment to. All those little twitch muscles need a few weeks to acclimate I suppose. I’ve noticed this phenomenon when I move from my XC (winter) bike to my Road (summer) bike.

So, I’m gonna give these tires more time. I really like the way they track in the woods and as I get used to this bike, I think I’ll get more efficient and find it wasn’t just the tires, it was the whole rig that I need to acclimate too.

Also, don’t worry, our exchanges were not in vain. Like I said, this has been an education. If the Schwalbe’s don’t work out, I’ll look to this thread as reference. If they do work out, I’ll still come back to our exchanges when I’m ready to buy a new set.

Thanks again for your help everyone. I hope to pay it forward with sage advice of my own on this board, down the road!

Best,

Greg

GeeTheCee

Right, and my scenario is funny. I ride solo through our woods and trails but also go on a road ride with the group. Often I ride through the woods and pick up the group ride and most of them are on straight up road bikes.On the flats, I was able to do better than keep up but on the hills I need every bit of help I can get. Last weeks group ride was very hilly and I’m generally a flat lander. I guess I’m saying I want this to be a dual purpose bike so I was willing to trade some traction and comfort for a speed upgrade. I just posted a few minutes I’m gonna stick with the Schwalbes for the time being; get used to the tires and the new bike. I’m also going to work on hills a little more since this particular group seems to like hills for some silly reason.

GeeTheCee

Right, and my scenario is funny. I ride solo through our woods and trails but also go on a road ride with the group. Often I ride through the woods and pick up the group ride and most of them are on straight up road bikes.On the flats, I was able to do better than keep up but on the hills I need every bit of help I can get. Last weeks group ride was very hilly and I’m generally a flat lander. I guess I’m saying I want this to be a dual purpose bike so I was willing to trade some traction and comfort for a speed upgrade. I just posted a few minutes I’m gonna stick with the Schwalbes for the time being; get used to the tires and the new bike. I’m also going to work on hills a little more since this particular group seems to like hills for some silly reason.

bigredgrad01

X'Plor MSOs 700x36 that came on my Jamis are surprisingly good on the road given how capable they are off road, even in the mud. The knobbies are densely packed in the center, so they roll very nicely on pavement, but they are larger on the outside for that extra bite in the corners off-road. They are kind of pricey though.

GeeTheCee

Thanks bigredgrad01, do you know the max psi on these tires?

bigredgrad01

It says 40-60 PSI, I am running the tubed cheapo OEM version that came on the Renegade, so I tend to run it at 60psi to avoid pinch flats, since I am on the heavier side.
The retail tubeless version is also 40-60 PSI, but should provide more flexibility to lower pressure off-road.
My off-road riding usually involves riding for an hour or more on road to the trailhead with a 2000ft climb. I am pretty happy with them overall for that kind of riding. My main issue with them is they are pretty pricey for the wear life, so I am looking at other options for cost reasons.

shoota 

There's no way any fat gravel tire is as fast as a proper road tire. No flipping way.

GeeTheCee

Right, but there are those of us who are willing to suffer some discomfort and lack of handling on hardback and gravel in trade for speed on asphalt. Bottom line I need more PSI’s. As stated in earlier threads, I’ll stick with the Schwalbes for now but ideally, a similar tread pattern but tires that inflate to 70+ psi would be ideal.

HTupolev

Wider tires hold themselves up more stiffly (and manage lower rolling resistance) at a given PSI than similarly-built narrower tires. They have lower pressure ratings than narrower tires because a given pressure results in higher tension in the casing. Wide tires can be made beefy so that they can handle high pressures, but the result is a harsher heavier stiffer tire that doesn't actually roll better.

When I ride my supple 2.1" slicks on pure paved rides, I use less than half the PSI that I use in 25mm road tires, even though I technically could get away with inflating them somewhat higher. Pumping them to their 55PSI max doesn't have any obvious benefits, it just makes them ride like basketballs.

chas58

Greg,

Sounds like you are on the right path figuring things out.

Where a road bike is going to have a strong advantage is on your hilly rides. Most gravel bikes don’t accelerate and climb that well, and your wheels/tires weigh more – further increasing the effort you need. Your doing good working on the motor and acclimating to the new bike. Enjoy! J

medic75

Gravel King slicks are the almost perfect "do it all" tire. I have 38 mm tires set up tubeless and I love them. Will you win a road race? No. At the same time, I would put them up against any small knob tire in any condition and you will not lose alot over the average 28mm road tire. Some of my tarmac strava PRs are on my gravel bike with these tires at 45 psi tubeless.

drbarney1

Years ago I was submitted as a candidate for the job of flight simulator technician for a large and famous flight training corporation. I had more qualifications that anyone else. When the manager found out who I was he said he would never hire me because he saw mw get off an airplane I was delivering and saw my bright green socks. It turned out the job was contracted to Phillip Morris to train their flight crews who fly missions delivering lobbyists to lawmakers in their war against the human rights of nonsmokers, something I could never live with doing. Apparently a high ranking Phillip Morris executive was offended by the color green. At the time a book called “Dress for Success” had some junk science claiming people who wear green are evil.

The years passed. It was time for me to graduate with my PhD, an event so solemn that only green socks would be proper because they represented the antithesis of the hundreds of thousands of nonsmokers the tobacco industry, one of whose Phillip Morris executives who hated green, killed every year with their second-hand smoke.

Through a connection I was offered a visiting professor job at a university where I would stay at an apartment near the university during the week and go home on weekends. Something did not seem right about the department chair I would be working under. But I needed the money. He told me I would be required to wear black socks to work and I made the mistake of dismissing this as something minor. At a faculty orientation where all faculty were present, the university president asked for opinions on how to define success in its alumni. Many suggested employment and income. I stood up and suggested if a graduate refused a job offer with a corporation such as Phillip Morris because he or she was influenced by Kantian ethics learned in a philosophy course and took a lower paying job compatible with conscience that would be a most profound success. My new boss bawled me out for saying something that might make enemies. I knew right then and there the evil cowardice of keeping quiet he demanded was proof that if he were in Germany in the late 1930’s he would keep quiet about the concentration camps. Things got worse. He controlled my private life, calling me up on weekends and vacation time to work off the clock to help him churn out “five year strategic plans” to put on his resume and called me up demanding I drive long distances to help him out with “emergencies” that put me in legal jeopardy and figured out how to steal expenses free services never paying me back for my expenses. When I cost more of my paycheck than I could afford and neither HR nor any lawyer could not help me I walked off the job after turning in final grades.

I celebrated cutting him out of my life by burning all my black socks and I will never wear any other color of socks but green ever again.

Because I had only social security to live off of I got a mountain bike at Walmart to save car operating expenses. The black tires on it wore out after a year and I discovered I could replace them with green tires. The green tires from ebay have shown no visible wear the way the original ones did and I thought it proper to ride on green tires for the same reason I wear green socks (and green dress shoes too.)



Green tires I suggest for road use on your gravel bike. (You can get them in almost any color you like.)

GeeTheCee

This last one isn't on the main trail, but it's close by. The car has since been removed.

GeeTheCee

I was passed by this woman last week!

mjd420nova

I ride mixed terrain and found the DURO thorn proof tubes are the best. Heavy duty, thick rubber all the way around. Backed with the Mr. Tuffy kevlar between the tube and tire and you'll be trouble free for years.

shoota 

Is that the UFO house I saw on a Netflix show?!?

Chi_Z

32mm would be plenty for those roads, if you want high PSI wide tire, GK slick 38mm is rated for 75psi