anthony714

Hey gang, been a bike guy for most of my life and I gotta chime in on the electric bike movement. Here in Huntington Beach, we have a beautifully maintained bike and walking path overlooking the beach itself. It is populated by casual walkers, families with small kids, couples out for a casual ride on the sand, and has always been civil. People walking let bikers around them, bikes tend to ride in single file to avoid hitting people walking, and bike have a speed limit. Generally, safe most of the time, with some close calls now and then that are mitigated by good manners and brakes.

I believe that electric bikes should be banned from THIS path. There, I said it. 90% of all electric bikers ride too fast, have no consideration for others, and will cause a messy accident soon. 90% of them are jerks, not practicing safety rules, not observing the speed limit, and blaming you for being in the way. The path was not designed for high speed vehicles. Change my mind.

trailangel

It's not the electrics... although inexperienced riders with a new electric can be a problem. Any bicycle should yield to pedestrians or livesotck on multi-user paths.

Moe Zhoost

I don't see many e-bikes on our local MUPs but most are riding prudently. I was buzzed once by two riders on fat-e-bikes with their thumbs stuck on their throttles. I really think that limiting bikes to pedal-assist only makes a lot of sense.

martinpagh

The electric bikes are not the issue, it's inexperienced and inconsiderate riders. Banning electric bikes from any bike path is a bad idea, because it decreases the utility of electric bikes overall.

But what I think we should start considering is speed limits on riskier paths. I believe California State Park trails already have a 15 mph speed limit, it would make sense to have the same on shared paths like the one in Huntington Beach, and probably most of the south bay cities. And then remove the speed limit in between the cities, where there is less traffic.

bikemig 

My experience is similar to the OP's. There are some real jerks on e-bikes that pay no attention to kids, animals, older folks, etc.

linberl

Jerks will be jerks no matter what. There are some lycra clad roadies around here that push 24mph and ride in packs without moving over for oncoming cyclists. It's not the e-bike that is the problem. It's the rider. And jerks are not limited to e-bike riders. Call the police and get some enforcement on the
path, for both electric and analog riders who ride too fast or dangerously. Cars can go 130mph and we don't ban that, we restrict and enforce, recognizing most people will obey the law. I'd love to see how you got that "90%" figure.....I'm willing to bet you don't even notice half the cyclists riding with motors because they are going the same speed as analog riders.

bikemig 

I agree that jerks can be found on regular bikes as well as e bikes but there is a difference. Racer--real racers--tend to stay off the MUP and know what they're doing when they use it.

So we're left with the universe of people who want to go unsafe speeds on MUPs. That universe just increased dramatically with ebikes.

linberl

My son's not a racer and he goes 24mph regularly, although he doesn't ride like a jerk. Maybe it depends on where you live, but there are plenty of fast roadie and mtb riders on my local pathways. They also tend to ride side by side instead of in a line, as they are exhorting each other to go faster. They frequently don't call out, either, even though there are signs reminding them. As a slower rider (even with my motor, I'm usually 15-16mph max) I find them a problem. They may think they can control situations at that speed, but I've seen little kids break away from parents and run into the road and dogs and young cyclists swerve....and those speeds create a danger. Most e-bikes are capped at 20mph (and don't actually really do that unless you want to run your battery out quick). Racers, or just fast riders, may "know what they're doing" but on a crowded path with unpredictable kids and dogs, they really don't. No one should go more than 15-16mph on MUPS, period.

bikemig 

I think we're using words differently and so don't really disagree much. People who really race don't tend to ride on MUPs when training seriously for obvious reasons or at least that has been my experience. I doubt the people you call racers are serious licensed racers.

In any case, the universe of potential jerks on MUPs who ride too fast has grown with ebikes since you no longer need to be fit to do so.

Nightdiver

If you're talking about excessive speed, then these bikes are already banned from bike paths in CA. CA follows the model ebike legislation which classifies all ebikes capable of speeds over 20mph as class 3 bikes, and NOT allowed on shared use paths. But the true issue isn't the bikes, it's the idiots riding them. As another poster said, if you ban all ebikes, then you actively discourage bike use as a car alternative. What is needed is better awareness of what is and isn't acceptable riding behavior. This actually goes for all bike riders, not just those on ebikes.

linberl

I think we agree riding too fast is an issue and SOME ebiker riders go too fast. But I read a lot of "scare" comments about the hordes of speeding e-bikers, and the reality is that most e-bikers are speed limited by the weight of the bike (and themselves) and range of batteries. In Ca. MUP acceptable bikes are limited to 20mph, and very few riders are going to hold that speed consistently. Most are going slower and just putting in less effort. But I'm all for PAS required laws (although have a throttle "boost" for hills is nice) but bikes should be pedaled. If you aren't pedaling, even if the bike has pedals, it's a moped.

2cam16

I was riding there with my buddy two Mondays ago. We were in the Sunset area headed to HB. All of a sudden this woman in an e-bike buzzes right past us at a very good clip. I'd say at least 20mph, most likely more. She was gone in a flash. We just looked at each other. lol

alloo

Funny thing in Denver, I'm passed by more people on regular bikes than ebikes. I agree the riders are the issue not the bikes.

MikeyMK

It's kinda like what's happened with cars. They're not only faster now, but far easier to drive fast. Power assisted everything, auto everything, and now even grandma's taking junctions at 50mph...

E-bikes are generally slower than manual ones. The fastest shop ones here are 16mph! Admittedly there you can buy them doing 28.. but that's still down to the rider, when roadies are cruising at 40+mph where conditions allow..

Unfortunately for grandma, she can only ride thanks to her e-bike. It's not fair to ban her, just because an unsociable person is being unsociable.

Digger Goreman

Imagine the (likely) Corporate meeting: "Gots a idea for making short-term profits. E-bikes!" "Who do we market it to?" "Grandmas." "But they are conservative spenders and/or have fixed/low incomes. Not enough profit there." "How bout we market it to 'jerks' with disposable income looking for instant gratification? " BRILLIANT! But won't that bring their 'jerk' ways in contact with more people via MUPs?" "You wanna make money? Let the rabble deal with the rabble.... Just keep them off the streets...."

MikeyMK

E-bikes have been around for decades, they just never took off. The Sinclair C5 was an e-recumbent, and step-through type e-bikes of the '00s look much the same today. It's a simple case of evolution and product development that has brought the posh ones to the western world (along with their inevitable popularity and subsequent development in the east-asian world).

donheff

Leave the ebikes alone. This is akin to the reaction to snowboards a couple of decades ago. You are on the wrong side of history suggesting a ban. We would be better served by more efforts at teaching new riders the rules of the road and common courtesy.

Digger Goreman

History is a weapon....

Historyisaweapon.com

fly135

I ride with a group of "unplugged" riders once a week on a paved trail with 15mph limit. My eBike motor phases out between 19-20, and the only time I can keep up and catch up with them is on the uphills. On the last half of the ride they slow down a bit, but they sure love haul'n a$$. Maybe the bias against eBikes is that the riders haven't put in their time and earned the right to be a public menace like the analog bikers.

linberl

If we want people to use cars less (whether to reduce traffic or improve the environment) we have to make it work. E-bikes are like cars in that they have a certain capacity for speed. We regulate car speed via signs, signals, and enforcement. The same will need to happen with e-bikes. Some states already have laws on the books limiting e-bikes on pathways to 20mph. There are definitely some homegrown e-bikes and some class 3 that get used on MUPS illegally; deal with those outliers by reporting them to police and encouraging enforcement. Most people riding e-bikes are more concerned with range than with getting the maximum speed, and many e-bikes really only produce a steady 16mph. Anything under 20mph is what a halfway fit analog rider can produce and there are plenty of analog riders (middle school kids in particular) who ride fast and stupidly. Many e-bikes aren't even noticed because the riders are going at a normal speed, just using the motor to offset physical limitations and/or reduce effort. It's the obvious ones that people are basing their judgement of e-bikes on, and they are the outliers. No different than BMW drivers - some are real jerks, very noticeable, so now they have a reputation that is applied to all BMW drivers, albeit false.

linberl

Indeed. Where I live the analog riders go way faster than the ebikers, and they also have a bad habit of not calling out and passing way too close.

Lemond1985

That reminds me, I must've eaten too much analog food last night, I gotta make another visit to the analog little boy's room.

linberl

Be sure to wash your hands after at the analog washing station.

edwong3

This is the same misconception repeated over and over. I have ridden on MUPs in the past and for the most part, any riders going excessively fast were the "lycra crowd". I wonder why would any self respecting roadie use a MUP to ride at those speeds instead of staying on the roads?

I almost hate to use the following analogy because of the sensitive nature due to events in the recent weeks and months, and that is the argument about firearms. It sounds almost cliche but guns don't kill anyone. It is the inhumanity of an individual who made the decision to pull that trigger who caused someone else to be injured or killed. No court of law has ever imprisoned a gun or executed one. They do these things to the people who committed the crime.

So the same applies to e-bikes. MUPs have for the most part a speed limit, usually 15 mph. What is needed is enforcement that will be applied equally no matter if the offender is on an "analog" bike or an e-bike.

Let's not blame the bike and make an example out of anyone who won't comply with the rules which in this case are in place to make us safer while using these trail systems.

bikemig 

You could always read a post before replying. I wasn't blaming the bike.