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Need Advice: Superbe Pro sealed hub play.

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Need Advice: Superbe Pro sealed hub play.

Old 09-17-19, 08:29 PM
  #1  
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Need Advice: Superbe Pro sealed hub play.

I grabbed this wheel set at the EroicaCA swap meet. Sealed bearings spin superbly smooth but I cannot mount them without a bit of play at the rim. They feel great and look great inside. I'm hoping some one has some experience with this phenomenon. Might that combination bushing/dust cap thingy be worn? I imagine they might be hard to come buy.
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Old 09-17-19, 08:48 PM
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Phil Wood hubs are designed to have a smidge of lateral play at the rim. The reason is to avoid unwanted side load on the bearings. Not a fan of it as the one bike as I move it around and set it down always seems to make a similar noise to a bike with a loose headset.

i suspect the same basic assembly issues are at play.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:11 PM
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If they're similar (identical?) to the Specialized version, you can adjust the "cones" just like traditional bearings to eliminate the side play. Not wanting side loading on the bearing is one thing, but running them loose and sloppy just isn't desirable either.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:32 PM
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They will have some play at the rim and that's part of the design. I have a set of these as well.

With cup and cone hubs, you adjust them with a bit of play at the axle. Once you tighten down the skewer, the play comes out so that you don't have any movement at the rim.

It's different with sealed cartridge bearing hubs like these suntour ones. I'm looking at Sutherland's 20th Anniversary (6th ed) and it has around 6 pages on cartridge bearing hubs with some good diagrams. The bottom line is that you adjust them so that they are as loose as possible with no play at the hub. Once you install the wheel, you will feel a bit of side to side play at the rim. That's normal. If you go back and overtighten the hub at the cones, you will likely ruin the cartridge bearings. The diagrams explain it better than I can. Sutherlands also points out that this flexing and bending can be reduced by using a large diameter axle which is what Phil Wood does.

Last edited by bikemig; 09-17-19 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:55 PM
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Ok then. I'm glad that I asked here first. I was about to knock out the bearings and replace them.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:57 PM
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Those sealed bearings last a long, long time.
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Old 09-17-19, 10:28 PM
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Modern wheels like Mavic use cartridge bearings and come with the tool that is used to adjust them.

You can do the same with these hubs, using cone wrenches, but as bikemig mentioned you don't want to tighten them too much or to the point of binding after the QR lever is closed.
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Old 09-17-19, 11:02 PM
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This might be heresy, but would it be possible to convert to a nutted axle? Then you wouldn't have to worry about bearing adjustment changing as you install the wheel.
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Old 09-18-19, 12:55 AM
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I have this exact same Superbe Pro hub - but a front. I use it a lot, and have for years. Super smooth. Every few years I unwind the locknut that holds the outer dustcap, and crack the little rubber seal on the cartridge bearing and inspect - mainly out of curiosity. The double-seal system on these hubs is very effective, unlike most cartridge bearing hubs, which are more susceptible to water and dirt intrusion than mid-range Shimano cup and cone hubs.

Anyway, on my Suntour hub there is no play at the rim and never has been.
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Old 09-18-19, 06:35 AM
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My front hub spins as smoothly as this rear and there is no play at the rim when mounted. I have had other more modern sealed bearing hubs they have had non threaded axles that fit more tightly in the bearings than these bushing/dust cap/cone thingys. Since this is how they are designed and they are not worn and in need of repair, I will ride them and not worry that I am abusing them and causing undue harm.
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Old 09-18-19, 06:54 AM
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Sutherland's 6th edition (20th anniversary) is available here, https://www.scribd.com/doc/45037747/...cs-6th-Edition

I believe this was the last one that has all the old information (as well as what was current in the day)
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Old 09-18-19, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
My front hub spins as smoothly as this rear and there is no play at the rim when mounted. I have had other more modern sealed bearing hubs they have had non threaded axles that fit more tightly in the bearings than these bushing/dust cap/cone thingys. Since this is how they are designed and they are not worn and in need of repair, I will ride them and not worry that I am abusing them and causing undue harm.
Based on my dealings with various Sansin-made, cartridge-bearing hubs, I don't think that the slip fit of the threaded bearing seats will be found to be the source of any noticeable freeplay at the rim.
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Old 09-18-19, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd
Based on my dealings with various Sansin-made, cartridge-bearing hubs, I don't think that the slip fit of the threaded bearing seats will be found to be the source of any noticeable freeplay at the rim.
Were the specialized cartridge bearing hubs also Sansin made?
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Old 09-18-19, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig
Were the specialized cartridge bearing hubs also Sansin made?
Yes, they were.
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Old 09-18-19, 02:23 PM
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I'm currently overhauling some of these Superbe Pro hubs. I wouldn't call them cartridge bearing (like the Specialized hubs I once had), because I view cartridges as those where you replace (press out/press in) whole new cartridges and do not handle loose balls. These Superbe Pro hubs are sorta in-between loose ball and cartridge. They use retainers as shown in this pic I just took of my dismantled front hub:



But the cone does resemble more of a cartridge bearing hub cone. It's not identical, but similar.

The hub itself has a bearing race, seen here:


.
I will adjust this hub just as I do for a loose ball hub, with a tiny bit of play before the skewer closes that gap in the frame.

Last edited by SurferRosa; 09-18-19 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 09-18-19, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I'm currently overhauling some of these Superbe Pro hubs. I wouldn't call them cartridge bearing, because I view those as not "loose ball." I view cartridge bearing hubs as those where you replace (press out/press in) whole new cartridges and do not handle loose balls. These Superbe Pro hubs are sorta in-between loose ball and cartridge. They use retainers as shown in this pic I just took of my dismantled front hub:

snip . . .

But the cone does resemble more of a cartridge bearing hub cone.

The hub itself has a bearing race, seen here:

snip . . .
.
I will adjust this hub just as I do for a loose ball hub, with a tiny bit of play before the skewer closes that gap in the frame.
Neat, here is a thread on this,

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespe...l-history.html
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Old 09-18-19, 06:59 PM
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Here is the one I have.


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Old 09-18-19, 11:15 PM
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^ Ah ... cartridges.

From glancing at the thread bikemig attached in post16, I gather the Superbe Pro hub evolved quickly from traditional loose ball, to those with retainers, and finally to cartridges. Cool.
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Old 09-19-19, 09:36 AM
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Here's a good discussion of adjusting cartridge bearing hubs:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-bearings.html

So thanks to @Classtime for starting this thread. It got me to do some reading on this subject.

This is an issue that has bugged me on and off for a while since I happen to own a few sets of wheels with cartridge bearing hubs.
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