Help with cycle computer, would you buy polar today?
10-13-20, 10:33 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Help with cycle computer, would you buy polar today?
I have been spending too much time reading reviews on DCrainmaker and looking up user reviews on individual products etc. and could use some guidance with my decision.
Background, I never used one I simply have been using the LG health app to track my rides with GPS, and really like how it has all pertinent data nicely summarized including weight goal. However, I recently picked up a set of rollers for winter training and need speed/cadence sensor to keep tracking my distance and hookup to a virtual app. So my minimum need is the speed/cadence sensor. If I'm getting sensors it would be nice to ditch my phone and use a dedicated computer to track rides even in the summer as my rides have increased in length to 3.5hours and my phone's battery can't keep up with also playing music.
It would also be nice to see my speed/max speed while riding. I'm also interested in starting heart rate monitoring while I ride, especially on the roller to properly do a HIIT program. I like the idea of what Polar offers with its fitness test and helping with gauging effort and recovery recommendations. I do like to look at my track post ride but don't really need GPS navigation except perhaps for the odd single track mountain bike rides. I use trailforks (premium) for that. I need to figure out how to do voice directions for a route. I have started running trailforks or ride with GPS in addition to send my tracks to Strava (free version) in addition to LG health.
My problem is that on any given day I change my mind between a simple basic unit to just track speed/cadence and display it on a head unit that can do heart rate or a computer like a polar m460/v650 wahoo elemnt bolt or even the elemnt mini or a Garmin edge 25/130. I am trying to keep costs under control.
Someone commented that it's worth upgrading from the Polar m460 to the V650. Polar has both of these on sale right now. I'm in Canada so keep in mind that our prices are 30-50% higher than US prices. The V650($271) is $70 more than the m460($199). The last time I checked the V650 was not available on the Polar website and I thought it was out of production as it's pretty old and prices at other retailers were over $400. One place had it listed for $269 but didn't have stock. My biggest issue is that the Polar heart rate monitors seem to be pretty expensive but can I use a different brand for cheaper? Same for the speed/cadence sensors? I'm trying to avoid the older magnet type ones. Are there any options to use an older watch with a heart rate sensor and connect it with a head unit? Should I consider others like cateye/Lezyne? My initial thought was to just buy something basic and cheap now and upgrade later, but if for the total price I can just get a better unit today that might work as well.
Sorry about the length, I figure the more info the better. Between Garmin and Wahoo my preference based on reviews would be Wahoo as I like the large clear display of the bolt. Price is an issue but I'm thinking there will be Black Friday deals or even possibly Amazon prime deals today/tomorrow or even better deals on current units if new ones are released as some of them are pretty old by now (bolt/V650).
Appreciate your input.
Background, I never used one I simply have been using the LG health app to track my rides with GPS, and really like how it has all pertinent data nicely summarized including weight goal. However, I recently picked up a set of rollers for winter training and need speed/cadence sensor to keep tracking my distance and hookup to a virtual app. So my minimum need is the speed/cadence sensor. If I'm getting sensors it would be nice to ditch my phone and use a dedicated computer to track rides even in the summer as my rides have increased in length to 3.5hours and my phone's battery can't keep up with also playing music.
It would also be nice to see my speed/max speed while riding. I'm also interested in starting heart rate monitoring while I ride, especially on the roller to properly do a HIIT program. I like the idea of what Polar offers with its fitness test and helping with gauging effort and recovery recommendations. I do like to look at my track post ride but don't really need GPS navigation except perhaps for the odd single track mountain bike rides. I use trailforks (premium) for that. I need to figure out how to do voice directions for a route. I have started running trailforks or ride with GPS in addition to send my tracks to Strava (free version) in addition to LG health.
My problem is that on any given day I change my mind between a simple basic unit to just track speed/cadence and display it on a head unit that can do heart rate or a computer like a polar m460/v650 wahoo elemnt bolt or even the elemnt mini or a Garmin edge 25/130. I am trying to keep costs under control.
Someone commented that it's worth upgrading from the Polar m460 to the V650. Polar has both of these on sale right now. I'm in Canada so keep in mind that our prices are 30-50% higher than US prices. The V650($271) is $70 more than the m460($199). The last time I checked the V650 was not available on the Polar website and I thought it was out of production as it's pretty old and prices at other retailers were over $400. One place had it listed for $269 but didn't have stock. My biggest issue is that the Polar heart rate monitors seem to be pretty expensive but can I use a different brand for cheaper? Same for the speed/cadence sensors? I'm trying to avoid the older magnet type ones. Are there any options to use an older watch with a heart rate sensor and connect it with a head unit? Should I consider others like cateye/Lezyne? My initial thought was to just buy something basic and cheap now and upgrade later, but if for the total price I can just get a better unit today that might work as well.
Sorry about the length, I figure the more info the better. Between Garmin and Wahoo my preference based on reviews would be Wahoo as I like the large clear display of the bolt. Price is an issue but I'm thinking there will be Black Friday deals or even possibly Amazon prime deals today/tomorrow or even better deals on current units if new ones are released as some of them are pretty old by now (bolt/V650).
Appreciate your input.
10-13-20, 02:08 PM
#2
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Does the device work well with what ever site you are wanting to use to view and store your data? Does that site have a lot of support information in their FAQ's and other support material for that brand and model?
Being the lesser market share than several others, you might have a harder time resolving user issues becuase it will be harder to find other users. Does Polar have a user forum for such discussion?
I haven't seen many post here from Polar users recently. Maybe they'll come out of hiding and let you know they'll be here for you if you need help with it. I've found that with any brand, as a newb, there are lots of features that will be misunderstood. Both how it works and what it really does. When I was a newb with my Garmin 500 I had many such issues that were just me. Once someone explained it in an understanding way, it made complete sense.
Being the lesser market share than several others, you might have a harder time resolving user issues becuase it will be harder to find other users. Does Polar have a user forum for such discussion?
I haven't seen many post here from Polar users recently. Maybe they'll come out of hiding and let you know they'll be here for you if you need help with it. I've found that with any brand, as a newb, there are lots of features that will be misunderstood. Both how it works and what it really does. When I was a newb with my Garmin 500 I had many such issues that were just me. Once someone explained it in an understanding way, it made complete sense.
10-13-20, 08:19 PM
#3
Senior Member
Polar doesn't seem to sell the M460 or V650 in the US. They're not on the website, and they're not in the comparisons on the US website. I think that's one reason there isn't much info here about their products.
Last edited by philbob57; 10-16-20 at 12:28 PM.
10-13-20, 11:01 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I really like the fitness tracking/testing/coaching aspect of the polar software. Now just need to figure out if the low cost magene sensors will work.
10-14-20, 05:22 PM
#6
Senior Member
I have been spending too much time reading reviews on DCrainmaker and looking up user reviews on individual products etc. and could use some guidance with my decision.
Background, I never used one I simply have been using the LG health app to track my rides with GPS, and really like how it has all pertinent data nicely summarized including weight goal. However, I recently picked up a set of rollers for winter training and need speed/cadence sensor to keep tracking my distance and hookup to a virtual app. So my minimum need is the speed/cadence sensor. If I'm getting sensors it would be nice to ditch my phone and use a dedicated computer to track rides even in the summer as my rides have increased in length to 3.5hours and my phone's battery can't keep up with also playing music.
It would also be nice to see my speed/max speed while riding. I'm also interested in starting heart rate monitoring while I ride, especially on the roller to properly do a HIIT program. I like the idea of what Polar offers with its fitness test and helping with gauging effort and recovery recommendations. I do like to look at my track post ride but don't really need GPS navigation except perhaps for the odd single track mountain bike rides. I use trailforks (premium) for that. I need to figure out how to do voice directions for a route. I have started running trailforks or ride with GPS in addition to send my tracks to Strava (free version) in addition to LG health.
My problem is that on any given day I change my mind between a simple basic unit to just track speed/cadence and display it on a head unit that can do heart rate or a computer like a polar m460/v650 wahoo elemnt bolt or even the elemnt mini or a Garmin edge 25/130. I am trying to keep costs under control.
Someone commented that it's worth upgrading from the Polar m460 to the V650. Polar has both of these on sale right now. I'm in Canada so keep in mind that our prices are 30-50% higher than US prices. The V650($271) is $70 more than the m460($199). The last time I checked the V650 was not available on the Polar website and I thought it was out of production as it's pretty old and prices at other retailers were over $400. One place had it listed for $269 but didn't have stock. My biggest issue is that the Polar heart rate monitors seem to be pretty expensive but can I use a different brand for cheaper? Same for the speed/cadence sensors? I'm trying to avoid the older magnet type ones. Are there any options to use an older watch with a heart rate sensor and connect it with a head unit? Should I consider others like cateye/Lezyne? My initial thought was to just buy something basic and cheap now and upgrade later, but if for the total price I can just get a better unit today that might work as well.
Sorry about the length, I figure the more info the better. Between Garmin and Wahoo my preference based on reviews would be Wahoo as I like the large clear display of the bolt. Price is an issue but I'm thinking there will be Black Friday deals or even possibly Amazon prime deals today/tomorrow or even better deals on current units if new ones are released as some of them are pretty old by now (bolt/V650).
Appreciate your input.
Background, I never used one I simply have been using the LG health app to track my rides with GPS, and really like how it has all pertinent data nicely summarized including weight goal. However, I recently picked up a set of rollers for winter training and need speed/cadence sensor to keep tracking my distance and hookup to a virtual app. So my minimum need is the speed/cadence sensor. If I'm getting sensors it would be nice to ditch my phone and use a dedicated computer to track rides even in the summer as my rides have increased in length to 3.5hours and my phone's battery can't keep up with also playing music.
It would also be nice to see my speed/max speed while riding. I'm also interested in starting heart rate monitoring while I ride, especially on the roller to properly do a HIIT program. I like the idea of what Polar offers with its fitness test and helping with gauging effort and recovery recommendations. I do like to look at my track post ride but don't really need GPS navigation except perhaps for the odd single track mountain bike rides. I use trailforks (premium) for that. I need to figure out how to do voice directions for a route. I have started running trailforks or ride with GPS in addition to send my tracks to Strava (free version) in addition to LG health.
My problem is that on any given day I change my mind between a simple basic unit to just track speed/cadence and display it on a head unit that can do heart rate or a computer like a polar m460/v650 wahoo elemnt bolt or even the elemnt mini or a Garmin edge 25/130. I am trying to keep costs under control.
Someone commented that it's worth upgrading from the Polar m460 to the V650. Polar has both of these on sale right now. I'm in Canada so keep in mind that our prices are 30-50% higher than US prices. The V650($271) is $70 more than the m460($199). The last time I checked the V650 was not available on the Polar website and I thought it was out of production as it's pretty old and prices at other retailers were over $400. One place had it listed for $269 but didn't have stock. My biggest issue is that the Polar heart rate monitors seem to be pretty expensive but can I use a different brand for cheaper? Same for the speed/cadence sensors? I'm trying to avoid the older magnet type ones. Are there any options to use an older watch with a heart rate sensor and connect it with a head unit? Should I consider others like cateye/Lezyne? My initial thought was to just buy something basic and cheap now and upgrade later, but if for the total price I can just get a better unit today that might work as well.
Sorry about the length, I figure the more info the better. Between Garmin and Wahoo my preference based on reviews would be Wahoo as I like the large clear display of the bolt. Price is an issue but I'm thinking there will be Black Friday deals or even possibly Amazon prime deals today/tomorrow or even better deals on current units if new ones are released as some of them are pretty old by now (bolt/V650).
Appreciate your input.
For that I'd pick Wahoo first, maybe Garmin. I use a Hammerhead Karoo and really like it. But it really doesn't matter as long as it uploads to Strava.
J.
10-14-20, 06:40 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Unfortunately, we don't get anywhere close to the deals you get in the US here in Canada. If I follow the dcrainmaker link to the garmin 130 deal it takes me directly to the .ca site and comes up as a CAD$626.92 bundle! LOL. The cheapest option is on amazon.com for USD$129 + $35 for shipping/custom which is still less than the cheapest option on amazon.ca which still comes from the US and has shipping/customs charge for CAD$242 + 34 so almost $300 bucks. Costco Canada has the edge 130 with the speed/cadence bundle for CAD$330!
10-14-20, 06:51 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
If you join one of the services like Strava, then it doesn't really matter which bike computer you get. They all support heart rate monitors, cadence, speed sensors, power meters etc... over ANT+ for sure and probably also BlueTooth. As long as you get one that has a WiFi connection, when you end the ride and get into a wifi area, it will automatically upload. That way you don't need to worry about what the bike computer supports.
For that I'd pick Wahoo first, maybe Garmin. I use a Hammerhead Karoo and really like it. But it really doesn't matter as long as it uploads to Strava.
J.
For that I'd pick Wahoo first, maybe Garmin. I use a Hammerhead Karoo and really like it. But it really doesn't matter as long as it uploads to Strava.
J.
The only wrinkle now is that the bundled heart monitor strap is too small for me and they just told me that I'd have to buy a new strap from their website for $45. Crap. Maybe I can sell the one that comes in the bundle or perhaps pay a seamstress to add a few inches to the strap. This combo deal on polar.ca is a good one for over $120 off the regular price $370.
10-14-20, 07:34 PM
#9
Senior Member
See that's just it though, I don't want to join Strava. Why pay the monthly subscription fee when I can get the same features from Polar's app/website for free. I don't know how good Strava's heart rate analysis is but Polar's is highly regarded and does everything I'm interested in for the one-time cost of their device.
The only wrinkle now is that the bundled heart monitor strap is too small for me and they just told me that I'd have to buy a new strap from their website for $45. Crap. Maybe I can sell the one that comes in the bundle or perhaps pay a seamstress to add a few inches to the strap. This combo deal on polar.ca is a good one for over $120 off the regular price $370.
The only wrinkle now is that the bundled heart monitor strap is too small for me and they just told me that I'd have to buy a new strap from their website for $45. Crap. Maybe I can sell the one that comes in the bundle or perhaps pay a seamstress to add a few inches to the strap. This combo deal on polar.ca is a good one for over $120 off the regular price $370.
You can check me on this, but you can upload to a free Strava account and still see all your data. Most of the training plans, goal setting, heat maps are the premium features. Here is a page that describes what you can do with a free vs subscription account. Activity upload and device connect are free. Why do you think Polar (or Garmin for that matter) lets you do it for free? It's how they hook you into their ecosystem....and make it difficult to leave.
With any of the manufacturers, they have a proprietary interest in keeping your data and making it difficult to impossible to move it out if they decided to exit the service. One of the manufactures just obsoleted one of their data formats (Sigma? Suunto? Not sure) and users with data there have been in limbo for quite a while. Also, if you, say, decide to switch computers - guess what? Very difficult to impossible to move your data.
Having been at this for a good long time (i.e. more than 10 years of data - well more), I've been through that with more than one software package. It's hellish, that's all I can tell you. Now? I upload to Strava (premium account), Training Peaks (free account), RidewithGPS as well as the mfg website for my bike computer. I then have https://www.tapiirik.com synchronize all that data with a dropbox folder so I have the raw FIT files to use if something happens. I'd advise you to do the same unless you want a big surprise when, say, you decide that you don't like <fill in the blank> bike computer that you have.
Garmin used to make it easy to download your files out of Garmin Connect, but they don't anymore. They have changed their API several times and there may be a way to do it, but I quit fooling with it. I simply don't want my data captive with a manufacturer. Over the years I've had all the major brands of bike computers and had I not done what I've done, the data would be strewn over all those manufacturers sites.
So, I think that's a pretty naive approach to rely on the manufacturer's promise (or your assumption) that they are going to be around for the long haul and be kind enough to let you move your data out of their ecosystem. If I were running their business, I sure wouldn't. I'd use it to hook you.
J.
Last edited by JohnJ80; 10-14-20 at 07:39 PM.
10-14-20, 10:57 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I hear you and I get where you are coming from it's just that I'm not as attached to my data as you are. For the past 3-4 years I have been tracking my rides as I mentioned above with the LG health app which I really liked, and still do as it really nicely sums up the data I have collected up to now, namely ride distance, duration, average speed, weight, steps and % of goal met each day. The only thing of interest that it gives you at the end of the ride but does not store is the max speed. Every type of exercise is converted to steps and tracked according to my stated goal which is a target weight. It calculated how many steps I need to do each day to reach my target weight. It's that simple. All of it is represented in an easy to read visual manner that I can quickly look at for the past years. Rides/walks etc are easily viewed on a map.
I have been experimenting with various apps to track my ride in addition to LG health initially Strava than the others which send data to Strava like trailforks/ridewithgps/kamoot. I hate the fact that they all nag me constantly to subscribe. I did it for trailforks as it was only $20 for the year and I like their MTB trail data.
I ride for fitness and I have become interested in monitoring my heart rate to see how various types of riding affect my weight. I'm pretty close to my target so it will soon become a maintenance program but I am curious about heart rate zones. I'm also interested in Polar's fitness test to track my progress. The other reason I like the idea of using Polar's software is that I don't believe they have a premium service therefore the nagging should stop. I will continue to send the data to Strava as a backup but TBH I don't think either Strava or Polar are going anywhere. I get your point about companies trying to lock you in and perhaps dropping a service but given that Strava is Facebook for athletes and Polar's core business is providing tracking hardware/software for serious athletes I don't think either one is going anywhere anytime soon. I think you are thinking of Shimano buying Pioneer's (IIRC) software tracking business as they sold them the power sensor business. I looked at their head units as they were heavily discounted and I soon found out why.
I have searched here for Polar and it does look like there are not many here who use their products but I did see a post where a poster claimed that they are exiting the bike computer business but will stick with their core watch tracker business. The worst case for me maybe that I have to buy a Polar watch in the future If I want to continue to access their software.
I was actually thinking of manually backing up my data so far into a simple spreadsheet that wouldn't take long given the few pieces of info per day. The interesting part will be the heart rate data for which I need to collect experience to see how much data will be generated and how much of it will be necessary to keep. I have a bit of a learning curve there. The most interesting part of it I think will be to perhaps see long-term trends. I saw a GCN video where they were talking about how the data might be used as an early predictor of possible health issues down the road. Even that is more out of interest given that fortunately there is no history of heart disease in my family.
I will take a look at that link for syncing data, thanks. What you can do with a free Strava account is a very short list: log, socialize, connect sensors. Strava activity log is similar to LG health except for one very important fact which is that I don't think it can be collapsed to a single line for each day's worth of activity showing the percentage goal reached.
As for Polar's coaching and heart rate zones, I'm sure all that can be researched and I could possibly come up with my own program but why go through all that if it's been done with their app? After all, computers are supposed to make our lives easier, correct? I'll see how it goes....
BTW I have ordered the Garmin speed/cadence 2 sensor bundle and I have a line on a used mount for the head unit so I should be all set for my winter training. I can't believe Polar charges $45 for the front mount plus $16 shipping. Time to roll out the roller soon!
I have been experimenting with various apps to track my ride in addition to LG health initially Strava than the others which send data to Strava like trailforks/ridewithgps/kamoot. I hate the fact that they all nag me constantly to subscribe. I did it for trailforks as it was only $20 for the year and I like their MTB trail data.
I ride for fitness and I have become interested in monitoring my heart rate to see how various types of riding affect my weight. I'm pretty close to my target so it will soon become a maintenance program but I am curious about heart rate zones. I'm also interested in Polar's fitness test to track my progress. The other reason I like the idea of using Polar's software is that I don't believe they have a premium service therefore the nagging should stop. I will continue to send the data to Strava as a backup but TBH I don't think either Strava or Polar are going anywhere. I get your point about companies trying to lock you in and perhaps dropping a service but given that Strava is Facebook for athletes and Polar's core business is providing tracking hardware/software for serious athletes I don't think either one is going anywhere anytime soon. I think you are thinking of Shimano buying Pioneer's (IIRC) software tracking business as they sold them the power sensor business. I looked at their head units as they were heavily discounted and I soon found out why.
I have searched here for Polar and it does look like there are not many here who use their products but I did see a post where a poster claimed that they are exiting the bike computer business but will stick with their core watch tracker business. The worst case for me maybe that I have to buy a Polar watch in the future If I want to continue to access their software.
I was actually thinking of manually backing up my data so far into a simple spreadsheet that wouldn't take long given the few pieces of info per day. The interesting part will be the heart rate data for which I need to collect experience to see how much data will be generated and how much of it will be necessary to keep. I have a bit of a learning curve there. The most interesting part of it I think will be to perhaps see long-term trends. I saw a GCN video where they were talking about how the data might be used as an early predictor of possible health issues down the road. Even that is more out of interest given that fortunately there is no history of heart disease in my family.
I will take a look at that link for syncing data, thanks. What you can do with a free Strava account is a very short list: log, socialize, connect sensors. Strava activity log is similar to LG health except for one very important fact which is that I don't think it can be collapsed to a single line for each day's worth of activity showing the percentage goal reached.
As for Polar's coaching and heart rate zones, I'm sure all that can be researched and I could possibly come up with my own program but why go through all that if it's been done with their app? After all, computers are supposed to make our lives easier, correct? I'll see how it goes....
BTW I have ordered the Garmin speed/cadence 2 sensor bundle and I have a line on a used mount for the head unit so I should be all set for my winter training. I can't believe Polar charges $45 for the front mount plus $16 shipping. Time to roll out the roller soon!
10-15-20, 09:49 AM
#11
Senior Member
I hear you and I get where you are coming from it's just that I'm not as attached to my data as you are. For the past 3-4 years I have been tracking my rides as I mentioned above with the LG health app which I really liked, and still do as it really nicely sums up the data I have collected up to now, namely ride distance, duration, average speed, weight, steps and % of goal met each day. The only thing of interest that it gives you at the end of the ride but does not store is the max speed. Every type of exercise is converted to steps and tracked according to my stated goal which is a target weight. It calculated how many steps I need to do each day to reach my target weight. It's that simple. All of it is represented in an easy to read visual manner that I can quickly look at for the past years. Rides/walks etc are easily viewed on a map.
I have been experimenting with various apps to track my ride in addition to LG health initially Strava than the others which send data to Strava like trailforks/ridewithgps/kamoot. I hate the fact that they all nag me constantly to subscribe. I did it for trailforks as it was only $20 for the year and I like their MTB trail data.
I ride for fitness and I have become interested in monitoring my heart rate to see how various types of riding affect my weight. I'm pretty close to my target so it will soon become a maintenance program but I am curious about heart rate zones. I'm also interested in Polar's fitness test to track my progress. The other reason I like the idea of using Polar's software is that I don't believe they have a premium service therefore the nagging should stop. I will continue to send the data to Strava as a backup but TBH I don't think either Strava or Polar are going anywhere. I get your point about companies trying to lock you in and perhaps dropping a service but given that Strava is Facebook for athletes and Polar's core business is providing tracking hardware/software for serious athletes I don't think either one is going anywhere anytime soon. I think you are thinking of Shimano buying Pioneer's (IIRC) software tracking business as they sold them the power sensor business. I looked at their head units as they were heavily discounted and I soon found out why.
I have searched here for Polar and it does look like there are not many here who use their products but I did see a post where a poster claimed that they are exiting the bike computer business but will stick with their core watch tracker business. The worst case for me maybe that I have to buy a Polar watch in the future If I want to continue to access their software.
I was actually thinking of manually backing up my data so far into a simple spreadsheet that wouldn't take long given the few pieces of info per day. The interesting part will be the heart rate data for which I need to collect experience to see how much data will be generated and how much of it will be necessary to keep. I have a bit of a learning curve there. The most interesting part of it I think will be to perhaps see long-term trends. I saw a GCN video where they were talking about how the data might be used as an early predictor of possible health issues down the road. Even that is more out of interest given that fortunately there is no history of heart disease in my family.
I will take a look at that link for syncing data, thanks. What you can do with a free Strava account is a very short list: log, socialize, connect sensors. Strava activity log is similar to LG health except for one very important fact which is that I don't think it can be collapsed to a single line for each day's worth of activity showing the percentage goal reached.
As for Polar's coaching and heart rate zones, I'm sure all that can be researched and I could possibly come up with my own program but why go through all that if it's been done with their app? After all, computers are supposed to make our lives easier, correct? I'll see how it goes....
BTW I have ordered the Garmin speed/cadence 2 sensor bundle and I have a line on a used mount for the head unit so I should be all set for my winter training. I can't believe Polar charges $45 for the front mount plus $16 shipping. Time to roll out the roller soon!
I have been experimenting with various apps to track my ride in addition to LG health initially Strava than the others which send data to Strava like trailforks/ridewithgps/kamoot. I hate the fact that they all nag me constantly to subscribe. I did it for trailforks as it was only $20 for the year and I like their MTB trail data.
I ride for fitness and I have become interested in monitoring my heart rate to see how various types of riding affect my weight. I'm pretty close to my target so it will soon become a maintenance program but I am curious about heart rate zones. I'm also interested in Polar's fitness test to track my progress. The other reason I like the idea of using Polar's software is that I don't believe they have a premium service therefore the nagging should stop. I will continue to send the data to Strava as a backup but TBH I don't think either Strava or Polar are going anywhere. I get your point about companies trying to lock you in and perhaps dropping a service but given that Strava is Facebook for athletes and Polar's core business is providing tracking hardware/software for serious athletes I don't think either one is going anywhere anytime soon. I think you are thinking of Shimano buying Pioneer's (IIRC) software tracking business as they sold them the power sensor business. I looked at their head units as they were heavily discounted and I soon found out why.
I have searched here for Polar and it does look like there are not many here who use their products but I did see a post where a poster claimed that they are exiting the bike computer business but will stick with their core watch tracker business. The worst case for me maybe that I have to buy a Polar watch in the future If I want to continue to access their software.
I was actually thinking of manually backing up my data so far into a simple spreadsheet that wouldn't take long given the few pieces of info per day. The interesting part will be the heart rate data for which I need to collect experience to see how much data will be generated and how much of it will be necessary to keep. I have a bit of a learning curve there. The most interesting part of it I think will be to perhaps see long-term trends. I saw a GCN video where they were talking about how the data might be used as an early predictor of possible health issues down the road. Even that is more out of interest given that fortunately there is no history of heart disease in my family.
I will take a look at that link for syncing data, thanks. What you can do with a free Strava account is a very short list: log, socialize, connect sensors. Strava activity log is similar to LG health except for one very important fact which is that I don't think it can be collapsed to a single line for each day's worth of activity showing the percentage goal reached.
As for Polar's coaching and heart rate zones, I'm sure all that can be researched and I could possibly come up with my own program but why go through all that if it's been done with their app? After all, computers are supposed to make our lives easier, correct? I'll see how it goes....
BTW I have ordered the Garmin speed/cadence 2 sensor bundle and I have a line on a used mount for the head unit so I should be all set for my winter training. I can't believe Polar charges $45 for the front mount plus $16 shipping. Time to roll out the roller soon!
I followed a somewhat similar path with Garmin and then after they made API changes, found I had a very difficult time moving data to other newer and better tools.
I started riding for similar reasons years ago which eventually led to where I am now. For me, being short sighted about tech paths wound up being costly (and being an engineer, no small source of irritation). But I’m glad I spent the money to convert because the longitudinal information has been very useful medically as well as for fitness tracking.
10-15-20, 07:55 PM
#12
Senior Member
Let me start by saying I've been a long time satisfied Polar user and have many Polar devices. I would NOT buy a Polar cycling computer.
First the latest two Polar Models have been discontinued for at least 6 months(if not longer) and Polar has yet to release or tease a new model. That to me indicates that they have no plans to continue in this space. Which means not only are the M450/M460/V650 no longer getting device updates from Polar, they aren't taking those devices into consideration when they update Polar Flow or any other newer devices they release. Parts and warranty also may become difficult.
Second the Polar units do not support ANT+. I came from a running background and having ANT+ was never a big deal to me as a runner. Most HR straps were BT compatible and honestly how many gizmos can you attach while running. Now that I cycle, there are TONS of fun gadgets like Varia Radar, Power Meters, Speed/Cadence sensors, and indoor trainers all that work with ANT+ and having a device that doesn't use that protocol narrows your choices.
While Polars Flow software for recording and analyzing your workouts is AMAZING and IMHO the only reason I've stayed with Polar as long as I have, I will be honest that I've found Polars last few wearable offerings completely underwhelming. I'm starting to move my data over to places like Final Surge/Training Peaks/Strava in addition to Polar Flow. My Lezyne Mega XL works just fine as an inexpensive cycling computer and gives me most everything I want in terms of HR monitoring/Navigation/Power. Eventually I'll probably migrate out of Polar altogether, I'd be really excited if Wahoo would release a wearable as I'm not interested in the Garmin ecosystem at all.
First the latest two Polar Models have been discontinued for at least 6 months(if not longer) and Polar has yet to release or tease a new model. That to me indicates that they have no plans to continue in this space. Which means not only are the M450/M460/V650 no longer getting device updates from Polar, they aren't taking those devices into consideration when they update Polar Flow or any other newer devices they release. Parts and warranty also may become difficult.
Second the Polar units do not support ANT+. I came from a running background and having ANT+ was never a big deal to me as a runner. Most HR straps were BT compatible and honestly how many gizmos can you attach while running. Now that I cycle, there are TONS of fun gadgets like Varia Radar, Power Meters, Speed/Cadence sensors, and indoor trainers all that work with ANT+ and having a device that doesn't use that protocol narrows your choices.
While Polars Flow software for recording and analyzing your workouts is AMAZING and IMHO the only reason I've stayed with Polar as long as I have, I will be honest that I've found Polars last few wearable offerings completely underwhelming. I'm starting to move my data over to places like Final Surge/Training Peaks/Strava in addition to Polar Flow. My Lezyne Mega XL works just fine as an inexpensive cycling computer and gives me most everything I want in terms of HR monitoring/Navigation/Power. Eventually I'll probably migrate out of Polar altogether, I'd be really excited if Wahoo would release a wearable as I'm not interested in the Garmin ecosystem at all.
Last edited by Laseranimal; 10-15-20 at 08:36 PM.
10-16-20, 10:25 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Let me start by saying I've been a long time satisfied Polar user and have many Polar devices. I would NOT buy a Polar cycling computer.
First the latest two Polar Models have been discontinued for at least 6 months(if not longer) and Polar has yet to release or tease a new model. That to me indicates that they have no plans to continue in this space. Which means not only are the M450/M460/V650 no longer getting device updates from Polar, they aren't taking those devices into consideration when they update Polar Flow or any other newer devices they release. Parts and warranty also may become difficult.
Second the Polar units do not support ANT+. I came from a running background and having ANT+ was never a big deal to me as a runner. Most HR straps were BT compatible and honestly how many gizmos can you attach while running. Now that I cycle, there are TONS of fun gadgets like Varia Radar, Power Meters, Speed/Cadence sensors, and indoor trainers all that work with ANT+ and having a device that doesn't use that protocol narrows your choices.
While Polars Flow software for recording and analyzing your workouts is AMAZING and IMHO the only reason I've stayed with Polar as long as I have, I will be honest that I've found Polars last few wearable offerings completely underwhelming. I'm starting to move my data over to places like Final Surge/Training Peaks/Strava in addition to Polar Flow. My Lezyne Mega XL works just fine as an inexpensive cycling computer and gives me most everything I want in terms of HR monitoring/Navigation/Power. Eventually, I'll probably migrate out of Polar altogether, I'd be really excited if Wahoo would release a wearable as I'm not interested in the Garmin ecosystem at all.
First the latest two Polar Models have been discontinued for at least 6 months(if not longer) and Polar has yet to release or tease a new model. That to me indicates that they have no plans to continue in this space. Which means not only are the M450/M460/V650 no longer getting device updates from Polar, they aren't taking those devices into consideration when they update Polar Flow or any other newer devices they release. Parts and warranty also may become difficult.
Second the Polar units do not support ANT+. I came from a running background and having ANT+ was never a big deal to me as a runner. Most HR straps were BT compatible and honestly how many gizmos can you attach while running. Now that I cycle, there are TONS of fun gadgets like Varia Radar, Power Meters, Speed/Cadence sensors, and indoor trainers all that work with ANT+ and having a device that doesn't use that protocol narrows your choices.
While Polars Flow software for recording and analyzing your workouts is AMAZING and IMHO the only reason I've stayed with Polar as long as I have, I will be honest that I've found Polars last few wearable offerings completely underwhelming. I'm starting to move my data over to places like Final Surge/Training Peaks/Strava in addition to Polar Flow. My Lezyne Mega XL works just fine as an inexpensive cycling computer and gives me most everything I want in terms of HR monitoring/Navigation/Power. Eventually, I'll probably migrate out of Polar altogether, I'd be really excited if Wahoo would release a wearable as I'm not interested in the Garmin ecosystem at all.
Regarding your first point, I can see how people would look at it that way. I look at it as both devices are mature and proven as almost 7 years old (M460 is just an update of the M450) and as long as they do today what I need I don't necessarily need updates. I am hoping that all the various firmware updates have addressed most if not all the issues users had. Based on comments here I understand that these units have not been available for sale, hence your comment about being discontinued but have you seen an official statement from Polar stating this? My only concern here would be that if they released replacement units for these devices, it would obviously devalue the current units. This is one of the reasons I didn't go for the v650 as I find CAD$200 for the M460 is a very good price currently and as it currently does everything I need I wouldn't care if it was "obsoleted" by a new device.
Your second point is definitely important for someone with existing sensors. Perhaps I should have clarified that I'm starting from 0. I'm buying all the sensors now and they all have the current protocols. People with ant+ only expensive power meters would definitely have an issue. I'm not sure if you're aware but the OH1 and H10 both received firmware updates enabling ant+ functionality. As it turns out they had the hardware all along it just wasn't enabled due to licensing issues/costs. I think I even saw that the v650 was ant+ capable while reading the manual. So that would no longer be a show stopper. Considering this, at the current price, or even on the used market the price/value proposition is very high. In the US you might feel differently with the current prime deals on the edge 130/1030. For road bikers not having varia radar can be a show stopper. I'm not sure if polar could add it via firmware as Wahoo did recently.
I'm glad you have such praise for the tracking software, this is a big reason I went this route. My question here would be what difference does the head unit make to the tracking? Can you give an example of what function you think is lacking that could be upgraded due to the specific head units in mind? I mean does the software care where the data is coming from? Again, if it functions properly as is, and it supports the current head units what's going to change? The only thing I canthink of is perhaps USB drivers but given they have it for current OSs that shouldn't really be an issue, right? I could be missing something here as I don't have mine delivered yet, but feel free to educate me. I do have a 30 day return window.
10-16-20, 07:40 PM
#14
Senior Member
I emailed PolarUSA on 1/29/20 and they told me all cycling units are discontinued but still supported.
So to take a long run at your questions. I've always made a case that being in the Garmin ecosystem is similar to Android vs Polar which is more like Apple. Polars hardware and software just plain worked so it was easier for me to overlook not having as many bells and whistles or features that companies like Garmin had. Polar's calling card was that they just were no frills bang on accurate data. I think their old tag line was Blood, Sweat, Data. The problem is prior to Apple Watch it was Garmin and everybody else, now with Apple watch taking up a large chunk of the pie and Garmin taking most of the rest, companies like Polar can't just get by on selling a great GPS watch. Now you have to have fancy features like guided deep breathing and sleep tracking metrics which I think are a detriment as I'd prefer to see QUALITY metrics vs QUANTITY of features.
With regards to Polar Flow, 4-5 years ago it was standout vs the competition. It just did a better job of synching, cataloging, and displaying your relevant metrics than anything else that was out there. I'd argue now that other places like Final Surge and Training Peaks at this point are as good or better than Flow.
Flow has become a bit more bloated, as it added in features and failed to really figure out a. whether they're relevant or b. how to display them. For example Polar now has their legacy Recovery Status metric which is a tab in the Flow website, you can see a bar graph with date on the X axis and load(Very Strained/Strained/Balanced/Undertrained) on the Y axis.. Your workouts stack on top of each other to form the Bar Graph. It's simple, elegant and clean. For example I went out this morning and did a 12 mile run with 8 of those miles at Marathon Pace so a pretty hard workout. I'm very strained right now :-) but if I do no other workouts I should be back to Balanced by Monday and Undertrained by Wednesday. This helps IMMENSELY when I'm trying to help figure out when to start to taper down before a race. Contrast this with Polar's newer Training Load Pro metric. First problem, where do I find it? Recovery Status was in the Diary tab, to find Training Load Pro I've got to click into reports and drill down to Cardio Load Report. Now instead of a easy to read Bar Graph I get two charts. One is a trend line which seems to mirror the Recovery Status but we now have Overreaching/Productive/Maintaining/Detraining based on a scale of 0.0-4.0. The second chart shows Cardio Load Buildup, now this could be a great chart but for some reason Polar's algorithm decided instead of factoring for decay, they'd just stop counting any activity that's older than either 7 or 14 days. Which can lead to some crazy spikes if you do let's say a hard 5 hour bike ride on Sunday of one week, but the next weekend the weather is crummy and you do the same effort on Saturday then go back to Sunday the following week. You're going to see a huge spike one week followed by a massive drop the next. Again it's all data but its not presented well as to how to interpret it, sometimes it's better to have fewer numbers.
Going into why I wouldn't buy a Polar bike computer because its discontinued. I've got some experience with Polar's discontinued but supported product. As I told you I have almost ALL of the Polar toys which includes their Polar scale which like their bike computers is now discontinued but supported. When I first had the scale and it was still being sold it was awesome. In the morning I'd hop on the scale click the sync button on my Polar M430 watch and it would send my weight via bluetooth to the watch. Then I'd jump out for a run or a ride come home and hop back on the scale to see how much fluid I'd lost(helpful in Florida summers) as the workout synced with Flow my weight synced as well. Fast forward to where the scale is discontinued. The scale works with my M430 watch, but not with my newer Vantage M. Now in order to sync my weight I have to grab my phone, open the Flow app, navigate to the Balance scale section of the app, wait for it to load and then sync my weight. What was a simple 2 second process is now far less so. Does it still work, yeah but it's more of a process than it needs to be. When I asked Polar why the new watches wouldn't work with the old scale they essentially said we're not going to keep features working for products that are discontinued. To bring it back to the bike computers, let's say you got a deal on the V650, which has mapping. Are you 100% sure that Polar is going to keep their base maps up to date with any road changes on a product that's discontinued? The same thing goes for new features that get rolled out for other devices. When Garmin released the Varia radar Wahoo eventually realized that they were going to need to support it or risk people not buying their units. Since Polar has discontinued its bike computers they probably don't care whether or not you can add features and functionality to them.
Finally if it's a matter of price there are MANY different options in bike computers that will work. A Lezyne Mega GPS can be found on Amazon for anywhere between $80-195 depending on model, you've got Garmins 130+ and sometimes you can find a Wahoo Bolt sub $200 on the used market. I just think there are better options out there now
So to take a long run at your questions. I've always made a case that being in the Garmin ecosystem is similar to Android vs Polar which is more like Apple. Polars hardware and software just plain worked so it was easier for me to overlook not having as many bells and whistles or features that companies like Garmin had. Polar's calling card was that they just were no frills bang on accurate data. I think their old tag line was Blood, Sweat, Data. The problem is prior to Apple Watch it was Garmin and everybody else, now with Apple watch taking up a large chunk of the pie and Garmin taking most of the rest, companies like Polar can't just get by on selling a great GPS watch. Now you have to have fancy features like guided deep breathing and sleep tracking metrics which I think are a detriment as I'd prefer to see QUALITY metrics vs QUANTITY of features.
With regards to Polar Flow, 4-5 years ago it was standout vs the competition. It just did a better job of synching, cataloging, and displaying your relevant metrics than anything else that was out there. I'd argue now that other places like Final Surge and Training Peaks at this point are as good or better than Flow.
Flow has become a bit more bloated, as it added in features and failed to really figure out a. whether they're relevant or b. how to display them. For example Polar now has their legacy Recovery Status metric which is a tab in the Flow website, you can see a bar graph with date on the X axis and load(Very Strained/Strained/Balanced/Undertrained) on the Y axis.. Your workouts stack on top of each other to form the Bar Graph. It's simple, elegant and clean. For example I went out this morning and did a 12 mile run with 8 of those miles at Marathon Pace so a pretty hard workout. I'm very strained right now :-) but if I do no other workouts I should be back to Balanced by Monday and Undertrained by Wednesday. This helps IMMENSELY when I'm trying to help figure out when to start to taper down before a race. Contrast this with Polar's newer Training Load Pro metric. First problem, where do I find it? Recovery Status was in the Diary tab, to find Training Load Pro I've got to click into reports and drill down to Cardio Load Report. Now instead of a easy to read Bar Graph I get two charts. One is a trend line which seems to mirror the Recovery Status but we now have Overreaching/Productive/Maintaining/Detraining based on a scale of 0.0-4.0. The second chart shows Cardio Load Buildup, now this could be a great chart but for some reason Polar's algorithm decided instead of factoring for decay, they'd just stop counting any activity that's older than either 7 or 14 days. Which can lead to some crazy spikes if you do let's say a hard 5 hour bike ride on Sunday of one week, but the next weekend the weather is crummy and you do the same effort on Saturday then go back to Sunday the following week. You're going to see a huge spike one week followed by a massive drop the next. Again it's all data but its not presented well as to how to interpret it, sometimes it's better to have fewer numbers.
Going into why I wouldn't buy a Polar bike computer because its discontinued. I've got some experience with Polar's discontinued but supported product. As I told you I have almost ALL of the Polar toys which includes their Polar scale which like their bike computers is now discontinued but supported. When I first had the scale and it was still being sold it was awesome. In the morning I'd hop on the scale click the sync button on my Polar M430 watch and it would send my weight via bluetooth to the watch. Then I'd jump out for a run or a ride come home and hop back on the scale to see how much fluid I'd lost(helpful in Florida summers) as the workout synced with Flow my weight synced as well. Fast forward to where the scale is discontinued. The scale works with my M430 watch, but not with my newer Vantage M. Now in order to sync my weight I have to grab my phone, open the Flow app, navigate to the Balance scale section of the app, wait for it to load and then sync my weight. What was a simple 2 second process is now far less so. Does it still work, yeah but it's more of a process than it needs to be. When I asked Polar why the new watches wouldn't work with the old scale they essentially said we're not going to keep features working for products that are discontinued. To bring it back to the bike computers, let's say you got a deal on the V650, which has mapping. Are you 100% sure that Polar is going to keep their base maps up to date with any road changes on a product that's discontinued? The same thing goes for new features that get rolled out for other devices. When Garmin released the Varia radar Wahoo eventually realized that they were going to need to support it or risk people not buying their units. Since Polar has discontinued its bike computers they probably don't care whether or not you can add features and functionality to them.
Finally if it's a matter of price there are MANY different options in bike computers that will work. A Lezyne Mega GPS can be found on Amazon for anywhere between $80-195 depending on model, you've got Garmins 130+ and sometimes you can find a Wahoo Bolt sub $200 on the used market. I just think there are better options out there now
10-18-20, 06:55 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for responding in such detail. I will try to keep this short(er)...
Both bike computers are still available for sale in pretty much everywhere other than the US, including Canada. The V650 is spotty as last time I checked it was not available and even now only the OH1 bundle is available as the rest sold out and support wouldn't tell me if it will be available again in the future. I was seriously considering it with the H10. When they say they are supported I would take that to mean firmware updates as well should it be necessary to fix a problem. Having said that I checked the firmware update history for the M460 and it had very few releases. I think only one in 2019 which was probably the function update with Strava live and phone notifications. As long as I can sync my data with flow I don't really need any new functions or updates. The only functional update I can think of which would be nice is bread crumb navigation but I'm not holding my breath. Interestingly the manual indicates that it can do return to start navigation by way of arrows which sounds to me like a crude form of bread crumb navigation. With the built-in GPS and this return to home navigation, it certainly sounds possible.
Like you, I also prefer a simple and efficient way of doing things. This is why I like the LG Health app for tracking my rides or any other sport for that matter. My only real reason for switching is I would like to use a dedicated bike computer to save the phone battery and being able to see basic info like speed/HR/distance/duration for which the m460 is a perfect match with its long battery life and "basic" four items per page display, though pressing one button to switch between multiples of 4 wouldn't be a real problem should I want to look at more. I received it on Friday and I did my first test ride with it and the beat app is very similar to the way LG organizes their data except it's probably cleaner and easier to read. I love how all the pertinent data about my ride is displayed cleanly without any noise.
I think the problem you are describing with flow being messy is probably due to the fact that you and I are in the minority and they are simply following the game of more bells and whistles in order to keep up with the competition. I see what you mean by the recovery chart. Mind you since it's still there the report seems like, err..a report i.e. a different way of looking at your data. As long as the original is still there you should be good. After an initial look, I really like the heart rate reports including the fitness test trending etc. BTW i did my fitness test in the evening, after eating and a glass of wine and to my shock, I scored the highest score possible before the elite level for my age group! So if I were to follow the instructions and do it in the morning two days after a coffee/alcohol I'd probably score in the elite range. I mean I did lose over 30lbs this summer with almost daily 20-50kms rides but I never would have expected that result. The only gripe I have so far is that the only training programs are for runners (5k/10k/21k/42k) but haven't checked if they can be adapted to biking yet. I have a learning curve to overcome with the training but at the very least I'm sure I will find some form of a HIIT program with aerobic/recover days.
Your scale issue would be frustrating for sure but again that wouldn't be a show stopper for me. It sucks when they take away a one-button solution but that's what I would call a first world problem LOL. I mean if you take a step back and look at it you still have the function available if you really want it with a workaround. I have no problem entering my weight manually into my LG app. If I can't input it to track it in flow I can continue doing it the LG app.
Unfortunately, obsolescence is built into everything these days and it's just a matter of time before we are forced to buy something new. Look at cellphones, for example, Google supports a phone for only three years and some others might be less. Seriously, they expect me to fork over $1000+ for a phone and do it again in three years. In my case two years as I like to get phones one year old after the initial depreciation and teething problems out of the way.
Regarding prices, unfortunately, we have it very different here in Canada. We don't get those crazy discounts you seem to get in the US and I haven't seen the final blow out sales like someone posted they bought the M460 bundle with HRM for US$99 last year. For us the Polar devices are a very good value below the Garmin/wahoo options. I didn't seriously look at the lower end brands as I don't want headaches associated with cheaper products.
Good luck with your race...
P.S. last but not least my biggest problem with all these devices is the non-changeable battery. They have a built-in end of life with 300 charges (for the m460) before battery degradation. At least the V650 has a replacement battery available and it's easily replaceable according to a youtube video I saw. I couldn't find the same for the M460 that was another reason I was considering the V650. When I buy one of these devices and they do what I need I really don't have a need to replace it any time soon. When I say soon, I mean at least 5 years but realistically 10+.
Both bike computers are still available for sale in pretty much everywhere other than the US, including Canada. The V650 is spotty as last time I checked it was not available and even now only the OH1 bundle is available as the rest sold out and support wouldn't tell me if it will be available again in the future. I was seriously considering it with the H10. When they say they are supported I would take that to mean firmware updates as well should it be necessary to fix a problem. Having said that I checked the firmware update history for the M460 and it had very few releases. I think only one in 2019 which was probably the function update with Strava live and phone notifications. As long as I can sync my data with flow I don't really need any new functions or updates. The only functional update I can think of which would be nice is bread crumb navigation but I'm not holding my breath. Interestingly the manual indicates that it can do return to start navigation by way of arrows which sounds to me like a crude form of bread crumb navigation. With the built-in GPS and this return to home navigation, it certainly sounds possible.
Like you, I also prefer a simple and efficient way of doing things. This is why I like the LG Health app for tracking my rides or any other sport for that matter. My only real reason for switching is I would like to use a dedicated bike computer to save the phone battery and being able to see basic info like speed/HR/distance/duration for which the m460 is a perfect match with its long battery life and "basic" four items per page display, though pressing one button to switch between multiples of 4 wouldn't be a real problem should I want to look at more. I received it on Friday and I did my first test ride with it and the beat app is very similar to the way LG organizes their data except it's probably cleaner and easier to read. I love how all the pertinent data about my ride is displayed cleanly without any noise.
I think the problem you are describing with flow being messy is probably due to the fact that you and I are in the minority and they are simply following the game of more bells and whistles in order to keep up with the competition. I see what you mean by the recovery chart. Mind you since it's still there the report seems like, err..a report i.e. a different way of looking at your data. As long as the original is still there you should be good. After an initial look, I really like the heart rate reports including the fitness test trending etc. BTW i did my fitness test in the evening, after eating and a glass of wine and to my shock, I scored the highest score possible before the elite level for my age group! So if I were to follow the instructions and do it in the morning two days after a coffee/alcohol I'd probably score in the elite range. I mean I did lose over 30lbs this summer with almost daily 20-50kms rides but I never would have expected that result. The only gripe I have so far is that the only training programs are for runners (5k/10k/21k/42k) but haven't checked if they can be adapted to biking yet. I have a learning curve to overcome with the training but at the very least I'm sure I will find some form of a HIIT program with aerobic/recover days.
Your scale issue would be frustrating for sure but again that wouldn't be a show stopper for me. It sucks when they take away a one-button solution but that's what I would call a first world problem LOL. I mean if you take a step back and look at it you still have the function available if you really want it with a workaround. I have no problem entering my weight manually into my LG app. If I can't input it to track it in flow I can continue doing it the LG app.
Unfortunately, obsolescence is built into everything these days and it's just a matter of time before we are forced to buy something new. Look at cellphones, for example, Google supports a phone for only three years and some others might be less. Seriously, they expect me to fork over $1000+ for a phone and do it again in three years. In my case two years as I like to get phones one year old after the initial depreciation and teething problems out of the way.
Regarding prices, unfortunately, we have it very different here in Canada. We don't get those crazy discounts you seem to get in the US and I haven't seen the final blow out sales like someone posted they bought the M460 bundle with HRM for US$99 last year. For us the Polar devices are a very good value below the Garmin/wahoo options. I didn't seriously look at the lower end brands as I don't want headaches associated with cheaper products.
Good luck with your race...
P.S. last but not least my biggest problem with all these devices is the non-changeable battery. They have a built-in end of life with 300 charges (for the m460) before battery degradation. At least the V650 has a replacement battery available and it's easily replaceable according to a youtube video I saw. I couldn't find the same for the M460 that was another reason I was considering the V650. When I buy one of these devices and they do what I need I really don't have a need to replace it any time soon. When I say soon, I mean at least 5 years but realistically 10+.
Last edited by Synmag; 10-18-20 at 07:32 PM.
