mikey789

My 1st post -

...need to thin down the herd, considerably. Life changes dictate this but I have WAY too many. WAY as in 60+.

Trying to get a feel for what others think they'reworth, vs what I think, vs what I'll keep.

Would it be better if I posted a link to a CL listing for each, or just post a list here ? I don't have them all listed, only 25%.

I also have maybe 30+ vintage MTBs.

Here is an example -

DELETED URL - I CANNOT POST A URL UNTIL I GET 10 POSTS?

harrisburg
craigslist
org
bik
6282884416
DOT
html

My reasoning is this -
-it's very rare
- has a lot of rare-cool features
- it's the only one I've seen in person
- it fits me (though I'd rather have a 60)

Maybe $500 would be more fitting ?

BTW, what is it with these almost constant .tv downloads on the site here ?
I can barely type because these ads use upso much bandwidth.

3alarmer 

.
...you can't sell your own stuff here without paying a small membership fee to list it in that section of the forum.

You can fix the jumping around because of ads problem by using Chrome as a browser and running their adblocker addon application.

Kevindale

I recommend you make a photo album on something like Flickr, and link that here, along with a typed list of the bikes and key specs (that's to get valuations, not to sell). You should also do a paid membership here, and list them in the sales section.

Here's your CL ad for the Grand Premio. I think $750 is way high for this. Last summer I got one in the Los Angeles area for $210, in very good shape. That was a very good deal, but I didn't exactly steal it.

KonAaron Snake 

+1 - that's just silly. Apologies for being blunt, but I think it's needed here.

Your title says restored; in the bike world, that implies repainted...and that hurts value.

I've found that when people come out with outright nonsense pricing, which this is, they also receive less interest when/if they come down to more realistic numbers. There usually seems to be more interest when it FIRST goes up...and then later people think, well...it didn't sell...I'm in no rush.

Harrisburg isn't exactly a red hot market...I've bought a few bikes from the Harrisburg market, and the sellers usually have a hard time getting half of what it would go for in Philly. That's, MAYBE, a $350 bike in Philly with a good ad.

Personally I found the hyperbole in your ad - comparing the tubing to 853 for example - to be silly. People buying bikes above mid-level know what they are and don't need to be convinced. Take good photos, list the parts. What your ad says to someone who's in the market for - and let's be blunt - a nice production bike that isn't top end or "collectible" is that the guy isn't worth dealing with.

Overhauled, clean parts helps a bike sell faster, and it helps get top value, but it doesn't increase a bike past top value, and it's usually assumed that the bike is in good shape. If it isn't, the buyer deducts what he has to pay later, or at least considers it in the asking price. The "in no rush" comment says you're not a serious seller too...it basically says the dude isn't worth dealing with. You can get away with that on something like a 1960s De Rosa...not a Univega.

The Klein is also at least 2x value in the Philly market, let alone Harrisburg.

I think you need to make a decision on if you actually want to sell these...and I would stop listing any more in this manner until you do. The ads you have right now are going to hurt future sales value IMO. The guy buying this bike isn't looking for a priceless antique...he's looking for a well made, everyday bike, that will ride nicely.

StarBiker

Might have saw this and came up with the price on the Univega:

Original 1986 Univega Grand Rally | eBay

Not saying this is an accurate price.
Much of the pricing on Bike Forums seems to be optimistic.

KonAaron Snake 

It depends on the bike and region it's being sold in.

Generally I've found people undervalue the top end stuff and over value the lower and mid stuff. Anything 3 sp is typically overvalued. They usually don't know the more obscure stuff as well. Generally a range is needed...fast sale/slow sale. eBay or CL. It's a free forum, and sometimes you get what you pay for. We do our best and I don't think were too far off most of the time.

StarBiker

I have sold a few bikes

Bianchigirll 

Are you selling bikes in Carlisle and Boiling Springs? Those are some crazy prices! That Alpine needs to be ebay and you need to be willing to ship to get that kind of money. I gave away the few bikes I sold via CL in the Camp Hill area

https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/bi...288553590.html

oddjob2

That bike needs work, note split hoods on levers, blemished saddle, rust on headset. FMV, $125 as presented.

UKFan4Sure

I have one of those. I agree your asking may quite a bit high. I have been trying to sell mine at half that and have had no luck. So... I guess I'm keeping it. It's worth that much to me.

CliffordK

I like that Univega. Not perfect... but it looks very clean, although obviously not new. I think $125 is very low. But, I agree with others. Maybe somewhere in the $250 to $400 range. And, spending a bit more time polishing the bike.

A lot of people part out their collections, especially anything with vintage Campagnolo Record/Nuovo Record, although I suppose it depends a bit on the frame that it is attached to.

3alarmer 

.
...as a general rule, you can't ask and get that kind of money selling bikes on Craigslist. There are occasional exceptions.

OTOH, if you're willing to ship them, have stuff that is exceptional in condition and somewhat rare in nature, and in no hurry to sell them, there are people who search Craigslist nationally and will inquire about stuff sometimes. Then youi have to figure out whether it's a scammer trying to steal your bike or a legit offer.

All in all, I'd say if you want to sell stuff for much over 500 bucks you're sort of driven over to E-bay (which comes with its own set of issues).

I can empathize. I have way too many nice bikes here in the garage, but I've had enough experience with Craigslist that I'm reluctant to start listing them for sale because tire kickers, lowballers, and other assorted idiots.

zukahn1 

I would agree on the price being high in most markets you just don't see Univega's selling for over $300.

randyjawa 

I don't know about anyone else but I would be reluctant to invest the time to appraise 60+ bicycles for anyone. Just too much of my time for doing something the person could do for him or her self. Rather...

Check the completed listings on Ebay and see what similar bikes are selling for. Not what some over optimistic seller is asking for the bicycle. Check Craigslist every day, again to see what people are asking and what is selling and for how much.

It takes time to get a feel for this but, with sixty plus bikes, it would be a good idea to get that feel and soon, if you are going to start thinning the heard. And remember...

What a bike sells for depends on the bike, the condition, the size, the location, the seller's marketing skills and good old patience.

Anyway, the above is just an old guy's opinion and not something one should considered to be cast in stone.

CliffordK

And, of course, the BRANDS. Rarity? A Suntour equipped Univega may well be as good as a Campagnolo equipped Colnago, but it won't command anywhere near the same price.

wrk101

Based on the prices I have seen, I am not sure you want a realistic appraisal.

DT shifting Univega is a $200 if it is pristine, fully serviced, and ready to ride. If you want more than that, hone your bike packing skills and head to ebay. Realize ebay is full of fees, buyers win every dispute, you have to be willing to pack and ship at reasonable/low rates. Even there, your prices need to be a lot more realistic. Its all about what a willing buyer will pay, and not what you think it is worth.

Old cables, rust on headset, cranks are missing dust caps, lever hoods are toast, etc. All of this would need to be pristine to cross from $200 to $250.

$200 for a Spaulding MTB? Really?

My advice, list just two or three bikes at a realistic price, sell them, then list the next two. Pick bikes that don't fit, and let them move on.

By listing so many bikes, at silly high prices, you are going to miss the bike selling season, which is already rapidly winding down. As you get into fall and winter, bikes will not move at all.

In my experience, C/L has a price ceiling where vintage bikes just don't move, even if they are good value. In my market, that figure is $250 to $300. Above that, its going no where, particularly asian made bikes. I love Japanese vintage bikes, but they don't bring much and $750 is total dreamland. Vintage MTBs tend to top out at a lot lower figure. Serious MTB riders don't want them, the technology has changed dramatically. Collectors aren't going for them either, other than a handful of them. That leaves recreational riders, who are just looking for a decent bike cheap.


$1500 for a Bruce Gordon with a stuck seat post.....

KonAaron Snake 

Aren't those the production tig models?

Kevindale

I hate to pile on, but I just checked a few of the other listings that look like they're by the same seller. A Univega Sportour also for $750, with the statement "To be honest, I'm not sure why it wouldn't sell for $1500." Really?!? I know why - there's not a buyer on earth who will pay that. And it's a 63cm frame which "fit's me fine at 5'10... but I wouldn't go below 5'9"." That's just nonsense. By the way, if the seller is reading this, it's a 1981 (leading 'J' in the serial number - 'K' would be 1982, and so on). Anyway, it's a lovely bike, and does look to be virtually unridden. The Shimano Arabesque group is nice, but that's a pie-in-the-sky asking price. Somewhere, perhaps on eBay, there might be a guy who's 6'4" tall with $300 in his pocket who's looking for a pristine vintage mid-level Black and Red Japanese touring bike. But if you don't connect with that one guy, you're not even going to get that.

A Miami Vice Centurion IM Master that was repainted black a couple of decades ago, and the 'Pro' repaint is a primary selling point ($450)? Wackiness. I'm wondering if these sales prices have some relation to what the seller originally paid (i.e., overpaid)? Either Mikey789 got ripped off on a bunch of bikes at some point, and figures the prices are fair, or he paid reasonable prices years ago and somehow imagines that old bikes appreciate in value as they get older. The truth is no one cares what the current owner paid, and it's one in 10,000 bikes that appreciates (rare, high end, racing bikes).

Anyway, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you have a collection of nice bikes, the kind that knowledgeable people who know some bike history appreciate, but aren't going to pay big money for. You don't have any real collectable bikes I can see (like DeRosa, Cinelli, Tommasini, Colnago, 3Rensho, etc.). The average CL buyer is looking for something to get around on. There are lots of people unloading nice bikes that have been gathering dust in their garage, and those bikes sell for $100-200 most of the time. That's your competition. I'm curious - you have a bunch of bikes for sale now. On CL, if a bike is really desirable, and well priced, it usually sells fast. Have you sold any, or even gotten offers close to your asking price?

wrk101

+100,000,000 How many have you sold so far? A fairly priced bike in a decent market should sell in about a week. Realize if you have 60 (or is it 90 with the MTBs), if you sell one a week, with the typical down time during winter months (no sales), you are talking of at least two years to sell that collection.

I've sold 75 bikes in a year, mainly on C/L, but it took some attractive prices to do it. And with attractive prices, I got buyers to gladly take multiple bikes. Since I bought right, I was OK with selling stuff below market. When the pile owns you, letting go is worth a lot.

63cm bikes tend to take longer to sell, and at lower prices.

mikey789

Ok, well, I've read all the replies.

I have to agree and disagree at the same time.

Yes, I agree an almost-NOS Univega like the Sportour is not as likely to sell for even the same as a beatup Colnago (had them sold them) but, do one thing - PRICE NEW STEEL BIKES.
* Steel is still the best material for a road bike. I can explain if you like as I've done 100 times.
* Vintage bikes are way undervalued. (lots of poo-poo'ing)
* New bikes are WAY overvalued. (Wall Street)
* New bikes and used bikes are normally bought by different groups of people for different reasons. I minored in psychology and have learned a lot in 60 years.
Same deal with the Gran Premio. They're failry rare IMHO, and although this one is not NOS, it has the rarer frameset with lug cutouts from what I read, It's pretty nice and rides just as well as the Colnago's I've had, maybe better. Tires, spoke tension, affect ride atleast as much as frame material I have found. Plus it's my only one If I could trade it for a 60 I'd do it and NEVER sell it. The headset rust (if that's the kind that won't remove) is a minor issue but maybe it's overpriced No probelm, easily fixed.
And, at 5-10 I don't ride your Fox-News-Approved 58cm, but 60 or 62 even. I do not STAND OVER bikes, I RIDE THEM! Can you stand over a horse ? Can you stand over a car ? I only need to be able to get on and off a bike, although 62 or 3 is as high as I'll go. I prefer a igher top tube as that is where I rest. Same as my motorcycles. I used to race MX, 100ft jumps, ESPN stuff though I never was Pro. Standover is the least important spec there is. Only in an emergency, off-road/MTB does standover matter at all. I find most folks who are bicyclers-only (not MC) and very 'conventional' need sloping top tubes and low standover heights as they don't really know IMHO how to get on and off a bike. And clip-ins ? Another falacy of US riders. Of course shoes are one of the reasons standover is important. One stupidity causes another in this case. Sorry, but I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, bu tthe truth. PROS have been scientifically measured and they DO NOT PULL UP. FACT. Our knees are not designed to pull up. You'll pull the meniscus apart. Clip-ins are a 70'sleftover from racer-wannabees. Butthe LBS will sell you whatever they can. Who's to argue with money ? We never did. But, if someone were to ASK, then YES, use generic plastic pedals, not special shoes.
Yes, the season's winding down, this isn't the location to sell locally, but it is what I have to do. Ebay is the next project of course.
I seriously doubt anyone who's replied has sold more bikes than I have the past 8 years...but that's a moot point as all suggestions are welcome and considered.
And if someone wants to buy another bike in the exact same cosmetic condition, but without rebuilt hubs, bottom brackets, headsets, trued & tensioned wheels, DTCs, and the other 50 things I do to most bikes, LET THEM !
I've ridden hundreds of bikes, and just rebuilt wheel bearings and BBs will do wonders for ease of riding. I've had more than one person ask, "do you have any bikes that are harder to pedal,as this one is too easy" Then I have to explain why 95% of bikes on CL are junkers. Also, with a storage area, instead of commercial RE prices, I can avoid the urgency and remember that selling 1 or 10 bikes will not matter,I can focus on what I sell and what I keep. Even after selling 50, I'm still keeping 50. And unless I find another Gran Premio in 60cm (which I prefer even at 5-10 - do you want to know why ?)

In any case, I appreciate all comments, but don't neccessarily agree. I've been doing this way too long to go along just to be part of the group.

BTW, Chrome sux IMHO. I was in IT for 40 years, and Chrome sux. It's the website that's causing the problem, not the Browsers. Advetising is ok and we all expect some, but this almost CONSTANT DLing of .tv stuff is web programmer who is out of control and should be fired IMHO.

BTW, these are not my 'keeper' bikes, but only bikes I'd be willing to part with.

There, is everyone PO'd now that I didn't agree like a SHEEPLE ?

Spoonrobot 

I'd like you to keep disagreeing, it's extremely interesting.

The rust, paint damage, zip ties and worn tires combined with the prices have me following this thread closely to see what pops up next. Thank you for taking the time to post.

DMC707

Sounds like the guy likes his old Japanese standards so much he is willing to hold onto them forever,

Thats what happens when people ask opinions and/or questions, but already know the answers. (They are seeking validation, not answers) Its hard to give validation to a $700 univega or Fuji though

frogman

I am also following the thread. It has become a source of entertainment. I don't understand why he asked
for our feedback in the first place. His long reply implies we don't know what we are talking about plus he majored in psychology which should put us in our place

KonAaron Snake 

Clearly you're a maverick thinker who is going to lead the used bicycle value market correction movement. From Harrisburg PA. Good luck with that. It's been an honor to share your - unique - insight into bicycle value and fit. I'm sure the rest of us sheeple are as suitably impressed as I am - and we look forward to buying your singularly impressive treasure mound from the basement cleaners/health official auction it will invariably become part of for $50/unit.

Kevindale

I appreciate that you came back to respond. The above section is about as far as I read in your response, and I just skimmed the rest. Here's what you don't seem to understand - the people who are responding to you and your ads LOVE steel bikes, and love vintage steel bikes in particular. Many of the folks here, I can promise you, know much more than you do about the history of steel racing bikes, the nuances of different steel tubing and geometry, and the quality, rarity, and desirability of different bike makers. Telling this group that they're wrong is like going to NASA and telling them you have a better plan for how to put a lander on Mars.

Markets are what markets are. Most markets are NOT about rarity, nor about history. Yes, we know that vintage bikes are undervalued by the general public. But the fact is, that general buying public decides what the market is, every time they choose to buy, or not to buy, what is offered. You don't understand this market. I have some artwork that I know is amazing. I wouldn't part with some of it for thousands of dollars. But if I go to sell it, I would have to accept pennies on the dollar relative to how I value that art.

There are simply more used good quality mass produced vintage steel bikes out there than there are buyers for those bikes. By a wide margin. And the mismatch is probably growing every year, with only a handful of high prestige hand-made steel bikes doing reasonably well in that market. Ten years from now a nice Univega that sells now for $225 might have to be priced at $125 to sell. That's the world you live in, and your opinions can't change it.

As for the comparison with new steel bikes, you're being ridiculous. I can go spend thousands on a new steel Tommasini, or I can spend a quarter to a third of that on a used one in fantastic shape that is essentially the same thing. That's what the marketplace has collectively decided. And that's an extremely desirable steel bike, hand made, in Italy, by a master of the craft. I have nice examples of Panasonic and Univega and Bridgestone - nice bikes, well made, ride great. But they're mass produced Japanese bikes, literally made by the millions. They are not rare, even if you personally haven't see them often. They are desired by a small group of people in the know, like this forum, because they're good bikes for low prices. The average bike buyer is very different - they're leery of buying an "outdated" bike that may have hidden damage, that has weird downtube lever thingies, that has all these ball bearings that need to be serviced regularly, that have spots of oxidation and rust and paint chips, that doesn't have a warranty, that is being sold out of some guy's garage who is obviously giving a very hard sell. That's just the reality.

Maybe I missed it in your very long counter argument, but again, how many of these bikes that you've been listing in the last few weeks at these high prices have you sold at or near your asking price?