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Why cloth panniers?

Old 08-23-19, 01:47 PM
  #26  
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After reading the above posts it seems cracking the pannier and a reliable, long term lid are the big hindrance. Makes sense.
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Old 08-23-19, 02:32 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by hfbill View Post
Oh I've had commercially made cloth panniers fall off several times over the years. Once, when I was in Florida, the one with my wallet in it fell off, and I didn't notice it right away. I backtracked and found it pretty quickly, but it made for a few anxious moments! When I got home, I took them off and never used them again. 'Sold em at our next yard sale.
I always keep my wallet in my jersey pocket. If I crash and get separated from my bike, I want to arrive at the hospital with my vital information on me. And I do not want the emergency crew to have to waste time trying to find my info if the crash is life threatening.

Ben
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Old 08-23-19, 02:36 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
That is an enormous amount of monkey-motion to get some kitty-litter containers.
Congratulations, I guess.

-Bandera
Or, "Way to think outside the box and be resourceful..." Depending on how you look at it. Do you have an easier suggestion when in doubt?
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Old 08-23-19, 04:33 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post
Do you have an easier suggestion when in doubt?
Oddly enough I recalled what had been traditionally used for reliably carrying loads for motorcycles and bicycles, looked into what improvements had been made in design and materials since.
Reviewed those that were recommended by experienced long distance users and made choices based on my requirements, aesthetics and budget.
Easy enough, and leaving little doubt that what was selected would serve well. I has/does on the LD motorcycle and bicycles.

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Old 08-23-19, 05:07 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
Oddly enough I recalled what had been traditionally used for reliably carrying loads for motorcycles and bicycles, looked into what improvements had been made in design and materials since.

Reviewed those that were recommended by experienced long distance users and made choices based on my requirements, aesthetics and budget.

Easy enough, and leaving little doubt that what was selected would serve well. I has/does on the LD motorcycle and bicycles.


-Bandera

To obtain kitty litter containers?


Is this one of those looking your nose down at someone kind of thing? I am not the smartest crayon in the box, and can misread things. I really don't see the logic or fallacy in what any of your comments have to do with how to find kitty litter containers for someone that actually might need them, posting about them, or want to try them out for "whatever" reason that may be.


Further, I think my post is helpful to anyone that may read it, wants to try and explore for whatever reason, and rather than spend time taking all the exhausting steps that you so kindly pointed out might not of been needed, I was pointing it out so they don't waste their time doing what I was doing. You are aware that this site is indexed and pulled up usually as first content on bike related issues correct? So when someone is googling later to see how to do it, especially with me providing the link now, this will eventually come up with that indexing for folks looking at how to do it.


Do you want to add any useful content in how they can speed up that process since there is a good chance they will be reading your thoughts on such a thing now? I don't really get where you are going or what it is you are trying to communicate in this situation other than opinion or possibly looking down on someone. Can you clearly communicate what it is you are trying to say? Because I am just not following you without making assumptions, and I don't want to wrongly do that if that is not the case.


I apologize that I am poor, don't have enough money to buy nice motorcycles and panniers, live in the hood, and have to ride around on kitty litter pans to pick up my groceries. Does that make you feel better in some way?


Because to be honest, I really wouldn't use my Ortlieb Bikepacker bags to pick up groceries, especially in my neighborhood, and I wouldn't want to take a chance at tearing them with the amount of crap I put in them from the grocery store. Not to mention that the kitty litter pans are pretty sweet to load up groceries and carry up and down stairs in versus panniers, and much easier to load and unload than Ortliebs also.


As for my motorcycle and panniers, I had to get rid of my bike when I tore the bicep off my arm doing disaster relief work during Hurricane Harvey. I couldn't ride for at least six months, and when you are as poor as I am, a motorcycle sitting there for six months at least unusable is not the smartest decision in the world, especially when I donated most of the money I had in my own pocket towards the hurricane relief efforts and getting supplies down there. I will be lucky if I get to see another motorcycle again in my life, and to be honest, after the injury and how stupid other people really are towards bikers, I would be happier with a pickup truck I can throw my bicycle in an conquer all those places you can't get to on a motorcycle anyway. I miss my bike a lot, but it was a lot of work and headaches to own the bike to not really get out of it what I was hoping for. All the gear all the time is a lot of work. Not to mention, I have a bicep sitting up by my shoulder instead of were it should be for the rest of my life because I tried picking up a motorcycle the wrong way. I have enough motorcycle experience now to ride one of those cheap bikes in 3rd world countries and that's about all I need anymore.

At the same token, that down time caused me to go deeper into cycling, mechanics of cycling, and I am just finishing up my own version of a pretty sweet touring bike, so I guess some serendipity came out of it because during all that down time, all those cycling mechanical videos became fruitful.


The rest is just pride anyway for me. I was always worried about crashing on my motorcycle in one way or another and starting at 50 learning how to ride has it's disadvantages. You can't really transfer the skill set from biking to motorcycle like I thought would come naturally to me. If I got seriously hurt picking up a motorcycle off the floor, with my attitude about things at times, I will get myself killed on a fun or good bike eventually. Besides, I actually can't stand having to give the "peace" sign to everyone you ride past on a motorcycle and all the etiquette around that. It's cool for the first few days, but it gets obnoxious after a while and can even take the fun out of it depending on how heavy motorcycle traffic can be. Then when you stop doing it, you feel like a heel to everyone else. It's like driving past someone in a car and waiving at them every time you see someone in a car. Not a fan unless you get to pass only one motorcyclist a day doing it. Even two is too many. That entire peace finger thing with each other out here in Colorado is obnoxious for how many bikers there are here. I also didn't like that just because I owned a motorcycle, suddenly I was "one of them" kind of thing. I wasn't and I didn't want to be. I just want to ride a motorcycle and be left alone, just like I do on my bicycle.

I also wouldn't put kitty litter containers on the side of a motorcycle, unless it was one of those third world kind of bikes or was convenient for my needs. Then it might look pretty cool.

I live in America though, but I live in one of the third world parts of America. So kitty litter pans will do just fine, thanks.

And, "way to go for thinking outside the box, being resourceful, and delivering on the objective." I would think for as smart as you are, you would value that more than the snubbing thing

Guess I am wrong though.

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Old 08-23-19, 05:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post
To obtain kitty litter containers?
Perhaps I mistook the BF thread in the Touring sub-forum "Why cloth panniers?" with motorcycle related content in Post #1 for a dedicated Kitty Litter Container sourcing thread.

Let me then clarify my process for Kitty Litter Container acquisition, if I had cats that needed an ample supply of litter and/or an alternate use for such containers when empty.

Oddly enough I recall when kitty litter had been traditionally stored in heavy paper bags for reliably carrying loads to the litter box. Improvements had been made in the design and materials of kitty litter containers since with modern plastics in various shapes from simple buckets to rectangular containers with a variety of lid types.
Plastic kitty litter containers that were recommended by experienced multi-cat owners would be among my choices and made based on my requirements, aesthetics, and budget.
I do not own a cat which raises the possibility of acquiring empty kitty litter containers of a suitable type from the multi-cat owners who may, or may not have alternate uses for them.
If not local availability at my grocery or pet supply store would be my choice in kitty litter container acquisition.

I hope that helps.

-Bandera
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Old 08-23-19, 10:19 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Just me, but...
I have never taken an actual wallet on tour, preferring something more minimal like either a plastic sleeve, or a ziploc bag, but whatever I used was never in a pannier. It was always somewhere that it either automatically or at least easily stayed with me at all times. Sometimes in a jersey pocket, sometimes a handlebar bag, and sometimes a little belt pack that just fit a phone and some wallet type stuff. I liked that solution pretty well. On the last trip I even used a tiny backpack for that some of the time. I don't like having to dig in panniers during the day.

On another note. I'd imagine digging for stuff is easier in your hard panniers. Also I agree the aero drag is probably significantly better.
Nowadays, I keep my wallet in one of the easily accessed side pockets of my little cellphone holder, not the locked panniers. It's in my field of vision while riding so it's very unlikely to fall off without my notice. Also, if I ever get injured & separated from my bike, and consciousness, I doubt it would take the authorities very long to find my wallet, figure out who I am, and pass my medical info on to the paramedics etc.
As far as finding stuff. It's actually easier than it was with my old fabric panniers with all thier many pockets and zippers, "Is it in this pocket? No, guess not, maybe it's in this one....? ". What I do have though, is an old shaving kit bag for my tools & such. Most of the rest (clothes mainly) are large enough to find right away. If you had to stow more smaller things, and it was a problem, I suppose you could always organize them into small lightweight, clear bags of some kind. I haven't really ever had the need to do that though.
Although I haven't any metrics to back me up, I swear there's an aero advantage to these, (those on the Trek 520 I anyway). I was up in the mountains today riding in to a stiff northwest wind, and it just wasn't as bad as it used to be with my 'not-so-aero' fabric panniers. Not a very scientific observation I admit, so take it for what it's worth.

Last edited by hfbill; 08-23-19 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 08-24-19, 05:35 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by hfbill View Post
Nowadays, I keep my wallet in one of the easily accessed side pockets of my little cellphone holder, not the locked panniers. It's in my field of vision while riding so it's very unlikely to fall off without my notice. Also, if I ever get injured & separated from my bike, and consciousness, I doubt it would take the authorities very long to find my wallet, figure out who I am, and pass my medical info on to the paramedics etc.
Reasonable enough, but I figure I'd rather have it on my person than trust them to keep track of my bike and possessions in the event of a mishap. Also I like just having my wallet stuff and phone with me without having to do anything to take them with me when I go into a store, for a hike, or whatever. Just a preference though

As far as finding stuff. It's actually easier than it was with my old fabric panniers with all thier many pockets and zippers, "Is it in this pocket? No, guess not, maybe it's in this one....? ".
That sounds like the same old choice between one big envelope pannier and one with pockets faced even when choosing between styles of cloth ones. I always preferred the one pocket ones any way so the hard shell ones would be no hardship at all in that regard. I don't even mind the roll down closures on waterproof models since I seldom open a pannier during the day. Typically I plan what I will need during the day and have everything out or accessible in some manner. Other items that might be needed unplanned are always in places that easy to find and accessible. I do pack items in little u/l silnylon color coded stuff sacks. It makes them easy to find and easy to compress. I don't bother with compression ones except for a few items like sleeping bag or any other down items, but find that by sizing them correctly and stuffing them tightly I can reduce gear/clothing volume greatly.

All that said I have been using alternate packing schemes more often lately and forgoing panniers altogether. Since I have been using ultralight packing techniques and gear I have experimented with a variety of different methods. I have used roll top stuff sacks strapped on with good success. I have also carried a few pounds of stuff in a very small and light backpack. When the base gear weight gets down to 10-15 pounds lots of options become possible and I have found I can camp and cook in pretty much the same comfort and ride in much more comfort when not weighed down.

I figure that bags designed for bike packing would suit my needs well enough, but have mostly resisted them so far other than to have bought a seat bag that I may use next trip. The price of them is relatively high and they generally wind up being heavier than the impromptu stuff I have used. They would have an advantage for riding off road especially on single track, but my impromptu setup worked fine in an tour off road two track setting.
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Old 09-02-19, 10:52 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Bike Jedi View Post
I made a pair myself like this. They are awesome for going to the grocery store and loading up, running loads of laundry down to a laundromat, and make awesome utility panniers, but I wouldn't tour with these. Also, long term, I am going to need to keep finding lids as they wear out from flipping them up and down unless I figure out a DIY solution for it long term. Also, they are not as easy to find if you don't know anyone with cats. I searched high and low and it wasn't an easy task. I could find them online for about $15 a container shipped to me. They cost about $15 full at a Pet Smart. So I went down to pet smart, waited for someone to buy the kind I needed, and made them a deal. I would buy one extra one for them, we dump them out, and I keep the containers. The woman I pitched it too thought about it for a long minute and then realized she had extra trash bags in her car that we could dump them into and instantly jumped on it. So bring some heavy duty garbage bags with you so there is no real thought into it and they realize they are getting twice the amount for the price of one, it's a good deal. You get two of them for cheaper then what you can have them shipped to you online for that are already emptied and never used. Outside of that, I couldn't find them anywhere and I was checking Craigslist, ebay, local restaurants for their food containers, and even restaurant supply warehouses. The only way I could find them was to offer to buy one for someone to get the containers.
Sorry, just trying to find an email address and saw this in the inbox. I must have missed it somehow.

I got mine for free att he local dump. I have way over a dozen of them, I got for free at the local dump sitting at home right now. I was actually going to use them to make a raise bed garden as well as use them as panniers. Don't know why you had to pay anything for them. I guess you don't realize, one man's trash can be another man's treasure. Go to where are throwing stuff away and you would be amazed at the stuff you can pick up and repurpose and make into things and save yourself a ton of money. I'm right now looking at using old 2 and 3 liter soda bottles for several different projects which I could pay a lot of money to buy what everyone elses uses but why spend the money when you don't have to. If you don't spend it...you don't have to make it.

I will fess in the past couple of months when I went to the dump I haven't found any kitty liter buckets. Granted you don't see them in the stores anymore either. Tidy Kat stopped using those style buckets unfortunately. The only products using the buckets may be ice melt style products anymore.
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Old 09-03-19, 07:04 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bikenh View Post
I will fess in the past couple of months when I went to the dump I haven't found any kitty liter buckets. Granted you don't see them in the stores anymore either. Tidy Kat stopped using those style buckets unfortunately. The only products using the buckets may be ice melt style products anymore.
Really? Purina still shows them on their website and suppliers like Chewy.com still list them for sale. Are they being phased out and just not removed yet? Maybe they are just not as widely carried in local stores?

I would think local stores just prefer to sell the 40# bags to folks buying largish amounts, and they are cheaper and probably more environmentally friendly, but for the online sellers the bags are harder to ship than the buckets. As a result they charge a lot more per pound for the 40# bag vs the 35# bucket. Chewy.com charges $49.99 per pound vs $41.80 per pound for the bag vs the bucket. I assume the difference is the difficulty of shipping individual bags, because the buckets surely cost a lot more to make than the bags.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:57 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Really? Purina still shows them on their website and suppliers like Chewy.com still list them for sale. Are they being phased out and just not removed yet? Maybe they are just not as widely carried in local stores?

I would think local stores just prefer to sell the 40# bags to folks buying largish amounts, and they are cheaper and probably more environmentally friendly, but for the online sellers the bags are harder to ship than the buckets. As a result they charge a lot more per pound for the 40# bag vs the 35# bucket. Chewy.com charges $49.99 per pound vs $41.80 per pound for the bag vs the bucket. I assume the difference is the difficulty of shipping individual bags, because the buckets surely cost a lot more to make than the bags.
t

I heard about a year ago that they were supposedly phasing them out. In the past few months I have not seen any new ones at the dump and I look each time I go. Also in the grocery store I don't see them anymore. Instead what I'm finding is what looks similar to a 5 gallon gas can. Instead of a scooping out the kitty liter you pour it out. Definite bummer. A lot of things that they could be used for and when you can get them for free you can't beat the price.
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Old 09-07-19, 11:42 AM
  #37  
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Cloth panniers allow your load to fit better if you are trying to load stuff with odd sizes and shapes like soup cans, etc. A hard sided pannier does not give very well if your load has an odd shape. My panniers almost always have some weird bulges where I am loading something like a cooking pot or fuel canister that does not want to give.





Originally Posted by hfbill View Post
Oh I've had commercially made cloth panniers fall off several times over the years. Once, when I was in Florida, the one with my wallet in it fell off, and I didn't notice it right away. I backtracked and found it pretty quickly, but it made for a few anxious moments! When I got home, I took them off and never used them again. 'Sold em at our next yard sale.
I carry a wallet in a zippered pocket on my bike shorts or bike pants. I use Zoic brand shorts or pants that have pockets, one of which is zippered when touring. I slim down the wallet to only the bare minimum contents and use one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/Coghlans-9918.../dp/B000FAMT9K

I often find that those wallets crack at the sealed seams, I only get about a month and a half out of one of them but I like the thinness and that I can see through it so I occasionally buy some new ones.
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Old 09-19-19, 08:06 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I carry a wallet in a zippered pocket on my bike shorts or bike pants. I use Zoic brand shorts or pants that have pockets, one of which is zippered when touring.
I would find having a wallet in my pocket while pedaling to be a bit uncomfortable. The other day I had 2 quarters in my pocket, and I had to put them in my panniers because they became bothersome. I did just buy a great high vis winter weight jacket (while I was in Ireland) that has a special breast pocket that I will probably keep my wallet in.
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Old 09-19-19, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hfbill View Post
I would find having a wallet in my pocket while pedaling to be a bit uncomfortable. The other day I had 2 quarters in my pocket, and I had to put them in my panniers because they became bothersome. I did just buy a great high vis winter weight jacket (while I was in Ireland) that has a special breast pocket that I will probably keep my wallet in.
Touring I usually use one of these wallets and keep a very minimal amount of stuff in it. They usually last about 6 to 8 weeks for me before they start to tear, so I consider them to be an expendible item.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FAMT9K

With minimal amount of stuff in it, it is about a quarter to three eighths of an inch thick. But if a couple quarters bother you, this would REALLY bother you.

Jacket pockets can be a problem if you have a couple things that are metal in it, for about 10 miles I could not figure out where my clicking noise was, I suspected a pedal. Eventually realized that my two keys in my jacket pocket were clicking against each other as I pedaled.
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