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Sitting on front of saddle for more power

Old 08-20-19, 11:06 AM
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Lowerkeys
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Sitting on front of saddle for more power

i feel stronger as I slide up forward on saddle nose. Do they make longer nosed seats to get even more forward? Not the position for long rides but rather shorter bursts
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Old 08-20-19, 11:13 AM
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TimothyH
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It is called "on the rivet."

https://www.velominati.com/nostalgia/on-the-rivet/

As stated in essay, saddle position or length doesn't matter. You will still slide forward onto the rivet when you ride hard.


-Tim-
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Old 08-20-19, 11:16 AM
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on the rivet [definition]
Extreme physical exertion to the point of almost giving up. Derived from bike racing in the olden days when bike seats had rivets, and in an effort not to get dropped one would slide forward on the saddle to exert maximum pressure on the pedals so as to hang on the the amphetamine-loaded Belgian in front of you.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...%20the%20rivet
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Old 08-20-19, 11:57 AM
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That's funny because I get more power by pushing myself back on the saddle!
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Old 08-20-19, 12:35 PM
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It's length is one of the main reasons the Fizik Airone is so popular with racers.
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Old 08-20-19, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowerkeys View Post
i feel stronger as I slide up forward on saddle nose...
Re-assess your saddle positioning relative to the crank spindle? You should be able to use most of the length of the saddle to vary how you apply pressure and which muscle groups get engaged.
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Old 08-20-19, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Re-assess your saddle positioning relative to the crank spindle? You should be able to use most of the length of the saddle to vary how you apply pressure and which muscle groups get engaged.
^^^^^^
This

You should alter your fit.
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Old 08-20-19, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
That's funny because I get more power by pushing myself back on the saddle!
Try this: Find a relatively flat 1 mile stretch of decent pavement and ride it as hard and fast as you possibly can sprinting all-out for an imaginary finish line at the end.
Were you 1)"on the rivet" or B) "back on the saddle"?
My bet is on 1).

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Old 08-20-19, 02:09 PM
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Fit doesn't matter. Saddle position doesn't matter. Saddle length doesn't matter.

One could ride a Schwinn banana seat with a six foot sissy bar. It doesn't matter.

Analyze it all you want. Alter your fit all you want.

Go hard enough and you will be on the rivet regardless.

It remains an enigma.


-Tim-
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Old 08-21-19, 12:14 AM
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Take off the saddle. Stick a big rivet in the seat post. Problem solved.
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Old 08-21-19, 03:19 AM
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You must enjoy frictional heat on the scrotum sack and numbness in soft tissue.
However, moving forward doesn't allow you to generate more power. For sustained max power, sitting in a normal position on the saddle and hunching down a tad more to engage more gluts muscles
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Old 08-21-19, 03:31 AM
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Please stop playing with the newbie and answer the question.

And it was indeed answered, where you sit on the saddle is not as important as where it is set (height) for best stroke.

Too tall and you have no rebound, stroke is wasted, too low and it becomes a chore.
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Old 08-21-19, 04:47 AM
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Its normal for me on short bursts.

Most people crouch a bit when they are pushing hard, its more efficient than standing, and easier to wind up to a high cadence. (120+ RPM)

Riding the rivet is usually combined with "gnawing on the stem", not a pretty sight.
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Old 08-21-19, 06:41 AM
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What usually gets lost in these discussions is that riders' bodies are not standard issue. All we can really offer you is "it does/does not work for me". There is no substitute for trying things yourself.
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Old 08-21-19, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Please stop playing with the newbie and answer the question.

And it was indeed answered, where you sit on the saddle is not as important as whee it is set (height) for best stroke.

Too tall and you have no rebound, stroke is wasted, too low and it becomes a chore.
To some extent, it's not a matter of playing with the newbie. Often, when we're newer to the sport, we don't know what to ask. So, some people try to read between the lines to determine what someone's asking. Or some people go off on tangents.

Summing up, some people do slide forward on their saddles to get more power in shorter efforts, especially in road races. If this is the extent of the question, then yes, road saddles vary in length. As already stated, the Fizik Arione is one potential recommendation for people in aggressive riding positions. I think I've heard this saddle is designed for people who vary their position a lot, e.g. sliding forward, sliding back, etc. I've heard a couple bike store managers say that the Arione is mainly popular among racers, however. My position used to be more aggressive, but since I've moved to a slightly more upright position, I found that the Arione isn't playing well with me. I changed to an Antares.

If you feel you need to frequently slide forward on the saddle, then it's possible your position is too far back. If you're new to riding, you should consider this. When I was new to riding, I found myself doing this a lot, and it turned out that I did need my saddle positioned further forward.
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Old 08-21-19, 08:45 AM
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I think the real answer is in defining what you're doing regarding where your butt is when you need to feel "stronger". I don't race but...when I'm sprinting, sliding up a bit (on the rivet) becomes a stronger position. When I'm climbing, sliding back a bit becomes a stronger position.

If you're riding flat ground and not sprinting, the need to move up on the saddle may indeed be a fit question or problem.

That said...Your fit may be fine as is. Even the pros, who one would assume would have their optimal fit, slide up and back on their perfectly fitted saddles depending on circumstance.
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Old 08-21-19, 08:53 AM
  #17  
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I define "on the rivet" for myself as going more than 150%. So, it ain't going to be for long. Maybe 2 minutes, then take a dirt nap beside the road. That's pretty much a prolonged sprint. You're recruiting what will make the power for that long, and hopefully staying low.

Watch a crit on youtube, you'll see a good amount of "on the rivet" footage. You know when you see it, and if the person does a nice power overlay.....you'll see the watts they're doing.
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Old 08-22-19, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by weiwentg View Post
To some extent, it's not a matter of playing with the newbie. Often, when we're newer to the sport, we don't know what to ask. So, some people try to read between the lines to determine what someone's asking. Or some people go off on tangents.

Summing up, some people do slide forward on their saddles to get more power in shorter efforts, especially in road races. If this is the extent of the question, then yes, road saddles vary in length. As already stated, the Fizik Arione is one potential recommendation for people in aggressive riding positions. I think I've heard this saddle is designed for people who vary their position a lot, e.g. sliding forward, sliding back, etc. I've heard a couple bike store managers say that the Arione is mainly popular among racers, however. My position used to be more aggressive, but since I've moved to a slightly more upright position, I found that the Arione isn't playing well with me. I changed to an Antares.

If you feel you need to frequently slide forward on the saddle, then it's possible your position is too far back. If you're new to riding, you should consider this. When I was new to riding, I found myself doing this a lot, and it turned out that I did need my saddle positioned further forward.
If you are sliding around trying to find your best 'power spot' you are most certainly not able to move the pedals as well as you should. Adjust your height first, and it you have a positioning setting then set that. Where you sit on the saddle is usually in direct relation to where it feels 'right' for you to keep steady action to the pedals, it's a matter of comfort and surety. If you don't feel comfortable in your saddle then adjust it.; Some people like to tilt the front down because they feel it gives then the best leverage against the back and keeps them on the saddle. A lot of new saddles don't even have a front to speak of for some reason (I know, something about less pressure to you know what) but I don't use those, I ride on comfort seats or old 60s/70s Troxels for cruisers, I prefer them.
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Old 08-22-19, 03:22 PM
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I feel like when im going really hard, therefore sit on the rivet, I angle myself forwards, so it becomes like a "push away from you" kinda movement. If that makes sense
Like the start of a sprint run.
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Old 08-22-19, 03:53 PM
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Look also at the rear of the saddle. I use the entire saddle. I push back for power climbing seated in bigger gears. I come far forward as you do going hard, both on the flat and sometimes uphill. For me, the entire saddle matters. I need seats that are not too wide in back so I can sit pushed far back and not cut off circulation in my legs. If I can do that, I still have a lot of nose up forward for riding "on the rivet". (One of the reasons I will probably never own a traditional leather saddle is because literally riding on rivets isn't a whole lotta fun.)

As posters have said above, I ride all wrong. So do most racers. We've been riding wrong all of the past century. Sooner or later the pro peloton will get word that they need to come to Bike Forums and get it right. When that happens we will see the next huge increase in speed.

Ben
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Old 08-22-19, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It is called "on the rivet."

https://www.velominati.com/nostalgia/on-the-rivet/

As stated in essay, saddle position or length doesn't matter. You will still slide forward onto the rivet when you ride hard.


-Tim-
Yes it is. So glad someone else knows that.
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