JMONAY

Hello, all. So, this project is in its very early stages (I wouldn't even call it a project at this point as I don't have a frame). First things first, here's my question. What frame characteristics, or even what make/model of mixte frame would make a good non-drop-bar town bike?

I am relatively new to the world of cycling and the theory (?) and stuff that goes with it, but am experienced with tinkering. in other words, I can build anything, I just need to know what to build. To provide a background for what kind of bikes I'm used to, well, my principle commuter is a restored 1958 Raleigh Sports which I loveloveLOOOVE. I also have a Raleigh DL-1 and a beater/frankenbike Ross Gran Tour. The Gran Tour has a longer-wheelbase road bike and I've found its handling to be very stable and predictable with drop bars, yet nimble enough. I think that is relevant because mixtes are usually road bikes, right? Lastly, I think my #2 most ridden commuter is a Raleigh Superbe that I built up with new Sturmey-Archer drum brake dynohub and drum brake 5-speed hubs. See thread "Modernizing a Raleigh Sports." It has the north road bars flipped upside down and I really like them like that because I'm still sitting high and mighty but I can crouch down lower through stronger headwinds. It was part 1 of my experiment to build a commuter bike that I'd love (which I do) but it was a bit overkill and now I'm not willing to leave it locked up in a sketchy place too long.

That being said, I am thinking about an IGH step through town bike that is also stronger (hence mixte, and plus they look so elegant), that isn't too valuable, and has stable handling. It doesn't have to be particularly lightweight or high end, if you couldn't already tell through my current stable The reason for my question is that I read this post from a blog that I follow (I'm sure many people here have heard of it) and in the comments, length of wheelbase is mentioned in having an effect on handling. Anticipated mods relevant to my question will be a Sturmey-Archer AW hub, North Road bars that may or may not be upside down, and an adjustable angle stem. None of these are set in stone but it seems to be what I have preferred through my experimentation so far. Something that is for sure though is that it will have a rear rack and moderate (20-30 pounds?) loads will have to be manageable, at least. My Raleighs carry these loads like they're almost not there.

I did fix up an '81 Raleigh Sprite 10 mixte for a friend and it had its original upright bars. The handling was SUPER squirrely. I think the post-'70 Sprites were just Records with upright bars. I guess that's one frame I know I wouldn't prefer.

Sorry for the wordiness; I was just hoping to get as many variables as I could out of the equation. Remember, my main concern is about geometry, not components, but any help with this will be much appreciated!

irwin7638

I went through the same process a few years ago. I used a Raleigh Gran Prix for a couple of years then upgraded to a Soma Buena Vista, which was a larger size, when I could afford it. Here is a link to my blog post about it. I couldn't be happier than having a mixte for a city bike, my son still uses the Raleigh and loves it (it fits him). The problem with classic Mixte's is the sizing. For many years they were marketed as ladies touring bikes and consequently it's hard to find a larger size.

oddjob2

The Sprite may have felt squirrely if it had cheap tires or the frame was too small.

in my experience mid 1980s Peugeots, Schwinn Le Tour II, Fuji Royale, and Shogun frames are pretty solid. Hard to find Motobecane Grand Jubilee and Raleigh Super Course MKIi are great,too.

RobbieTunes

Mixte frames are great.
Convenient, balanced, strong, and generally lighter than other "town bike" frames.

I'd go Japanese or Raleigh for upgrade compatibility. Centurion made a nice one, along with others mentioned.

Issues:
-if they're French, changing out parts/components can be a nightmare.
-rear brake caliper is often bottom-pull, so changing out parts/components can be tricky (not a nightmare).
-650B conversions take patience and forethought
-mounting racks for "town bike" use can be a challenge.

oddjob2

The Peugeots built after 1982 don't have French threading issues

icepick_trotsky 

Go Japanese. In my experience, French-made mixtes are often made of lesser-quality steel (read: heavier), than the ones coming out of Japan in the '80s, most of which were Cro-mo. Univega, Fuji, Miyata, Centurion, et cetera should be easy to find if you're patient.

Be aware that many Japanese made frames were rebranded under American or European brands like Schwinn, Puch, and so forth.

Velocivixen

I have 3 mixtes that I like. I recommend going Japanese, in that threading and sizing of components won't be proprietary like some of the older French & Raleigh are. I have an '85 Nishiki Riviera, a Miyata One Twelve (recently put drop bars on), and a Miyata Ninety. The upright bars that I like are mostly the Velo Orange Porteur bars and also their Postino bars, both very reasonably priced.

The bikes originally came with 27" wheels, and I changed to 700c with 32mm tires and they ride well - not squirrelly. HOpe this helps.

JMONAY

Nice! I read the article too. I take that to mean the Gran Prix handles decently for what it is? And yeah, I have had some difficulty with the size. I usually ride 23" but my Lady's Sports is a 21" and it fits, just had to buy a longer seat post. I figure that's what I'll have to do with a mixte.
Also, if you're curious, this is my Superbe.

Thanks for the reply!

JMONAY

Thanks for the info. I was leaning toward Peugeot because that's what I think to myself when I hear "mixte."I also like Fujis quite a bit but really, the brand doesn't matter. Haha, a Super Course (Diamond frame) is a dream of mine, to build into a true road/touring bike. I might not feel comfortable building one into a town bike simply because of the abuse it will be subjected to but if I manage to find one for cheap, I'd consider it ... haha

The Sprite did have cheap tires. The Kenda K35 type that almost every college-town 10 speed has. Just curious, how do those affect handling? I'm not talking about being jittery over bumps, but the steering was super quick. Frame wasn't too small, it was a 21". I usually ride 23, but my lady's Sports has a 21" frame and it handles just fine. The wheelbase of the Sprite does look extremely short, if that has anything to do with the handling.

JMONAY

Wow, thanks for the specifics. I do have a preference for Raleigh (haha) but I am more strongly considering looking for a chromoly Japanese frame. I'd be looking to run 700c rather than 650b tires just because there is a larger selection of inexpensive, decent tires. I might just end up running Schwalbe Delta Cruisers again. My Raleighs have them and I love them but I might try something new. It's too early to say.

Also, about the racks. How exactly would it be different? like, up front? I'm only looking to put a rack in the back, most likely a Pletscher or something like that. Thanks again

JMONAY

I have heard about the French steel, I forgot where. And yeah, I was leaning toward chromoly Japanese frames. They don't seem too tough to find either. Thanks for the recommendations!

JMONAY

Thanks, this does help! I was almost certainly going to convert to 700x32 or 35c tires. Glad to know that they really do work well. These will fit even with fenders, correct? Also, I actually have a set of VO north road bars sitting unused. They were supposed to go on my Raleigh Superbe but I found a narrower set of old Raleigh bars where the curves and angles suited me better with the old stem. They should work better with a longer reach stem. I really like the Porteur bars though so I might try those too.

How's the handling on your bikes? fairly stable or very racy and twitchy?

Velocivixen

The question of fenders will totally depend on the bike, so I won't make a blanket statement. Going from 27" down to 700c left me with more room above the tire for fenders. My mixtes are light and steering responsive, but I wouldn't say "squirrelly". I feel comfortable riding the bikes - I guess I would say, particularly the Nishiki & Miyata One Twelve are "lively". The Northroads bars will be nice.

CliffordK

I like the multi-gear bikes. But, some people have troubles with the gears... or only ride in flat places where a 3-speed is just fine. It all depends on your preference.

The Mixtes run the whole gambit. Quite a few Univegas out there.

Even Motobecane varied significantly between models.

Here is Mom's Motobecane Grand Jubilee Mixte with Vitus tubing. Rated in the low 20's for weight.



The seat was lowered for my niece.

The tires are 27x1, I think.

I've ridden the bike a few times and thought it rode comfortably, although a bit on the small side for my preferences. Part of the reason for the Grand Jubilee was that it was essentially as good as the "racing" bikes that everyone else in the family was riding.

oddjob2

If you want a tall mixtie, they're kind of scarce, but these are available in my garage.

JMONAY

Alright, that gives me more of an idea. Thanks!

JMONAY

Thanks for the info. I will look into a Grand Jubilee, try to see if it could work for me. And yeah, I did realize mixtes are quite diverse so that's why I was wondering if there were any specific models that fit my requirements. This definitely helps.

JMONAY

Yoooo ... How's that Fuji ride with the upright bars? agh. if only you weren't so far away. I really wanted a mixte in red. I'd make you an offer if I could haha

And ha, that green Raleigh is a Sprite 10, isn't it? Looks outfitted exactly like the one I restored for my friend except that one was brown. I did really like the original saddle, for what it's worth. Nicely patterned and pretty comfortable.

CliffordK

The problem with vintage bikes is that you have to work with what you find.

There are a couple of companies that are making new Mixte frames that should be quite nice... I would think. However, they are also much more expensive than the vintage bikes (when you find them).

The Grand Jubilee Mixte bikes (or frames) do show up on E-Bay from time to time. They are a bit different from other models in that they have a single top tube that splits about 8 or 10 inches before the seat stay.

You could probably "modernize" a few things if you wished... cotterless cranks, lightweight wheels, etc, if you wanted a sportier bike. Although many people desiring the low top tubes also desire the horizontal bars... but even those can be alloy or steel.

JMONAY

Haha, it's funny you should say that because at the moment I exclusively ride fairly old bikes that I have rebuilt or restored, so "working with what I have" is a familiar concept. I have nothing against the new stuff, this is just what I'm used to. I keep thinking "man, I've spent enough money rebuilding this bike to pay for that new one" but then I remember that the cost includes accessories and stuff to make the bike work for me, and doing the same to a new bike would surely be much more expensive. I'm actually so used to refurbishing old bikes that the thought of buying a new frame didn't even cross my mind, but now that you mention it, if by chance I manage to achieve a more stable financial position before I start this build, I'd certainly take a look at a new frame. Either that or I might end up doing what @irwin7638 did and just look into an upgrade when the time comes.

Of course, I might modernize some things if I feel fit. If you look at my link to my Raleigh Superbe build somewhere earlier in the thread, you'll get an idea of what I did ... pretty overkill but I like the result, haha. For the mixte, I'm already planning to give it new bars, stem, and drivetrain. An bulletproof Sturmey-Archer AW laced into a 700c alloy wheel. It's possible that I will combine derailleur gearing with it. I find a my heavy 3-speed Raleighs to be adequate 95% of the time in hilly Ann Arbor and I love the ability to have lightning quick shifts and shift while stopped, but sometimes there is just a small desire for a ratio somewhere between the existing ones, especially when faced in a headwind. Something also mentioned here which made this option look more attractive is that if you have to panic stop and end up in a high gear, the internal gear hub lets you flick it down into 1st to get going faster. A counter-argument could be that I could just get a close-ratio 5, 7, or 8 speed IGH but to me, fiddling with shifter adjustment and stuff, and just the complexity and weight of the whole deal make >3 speed IGHs less attractive to me. The Superbe, which I ride regularly, has a 5. I like it but I have had one problem with it due to its complexity and also because shifter adjustment is finnicky, I have to pay more attention. It's not like a 3-speed where you can just set it up and you'll be good for a few years of banging around town.

JMONAY

Thank you all for the valuable suggestions. On another thread, @oddjob2 offered me his 21" 1981 Lotus Excelle mixte as a bare frame. I have sincegiven it a 1966 Sturmey-Archer AW hub, Sugino 40/44t crankset, IDC Stout front wheel assembled with 6v sanyo dynohub (one less wheel to build, and it was a great deal!), herrmans lights, etc. I have decided to give this bike drop bars; more specifically, 48 cm heat treated Nitto Dirt Drops. If I want an upright ride, I have many other bikes to choose from anyway. I realized that on my short commute, I am faced with a stronger headwind in the mornings and I appreciated drops even more. With the width of these bars, I can comfortably use the tops when I want. Still trying to decide whether I want the shifter on the top or the drop.

At this point, the new bike is almost done and a test ride I did a few weeks ago yielded very promising results.

Cowick22

I love my mixte townie with vo porteur bars.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/54703685@N03/T3faGu
I recently painted the fenders brown and installed them. She is a sweet fun and fast ride. I am thinking about building a new one with a univega sportour frame with 700cx35 wheels/tires and 7 gear cassette. I want to take my time and choose high quality parts for her. Thinking of using thumb shifters any suggestions as to which kind would be best would be much appreciated. I am glad that we are in a time when men can love and ride a classy mixte!

Cowick22

https://www.flickr.com/gp/54703685@N03/D7Vv69
Another pic of my copper univega mixte

JMONAY

Beautiful. and Ah, I see you have a Brooks saddle as well, although not in the traditional sense. I respect that. Old mattress saddles are underrated in my opinion. I'm a sucker for those heavy, old "schwinn approved" vinyl mattress saddles. Not awful the plastic-on-sheetmetal "S" symbol ones that everyone knows about, but the padded, riveted, black ones that are fully sprung down the entire length of the saddle.



My first one was a clapped-out one that came to me on my '58 Raleigh Sports, which was the bike that got me into bikes. The seat and bike seem to be a great match. SUPER comfy. Weight is a non-issue. I have accumulated a few more in better shape. I typically use this saddle on my bike in the winter now and use a Brooks B66 in the summer. I have to say I sometimes struggle to notice a difference in comfort between the two.