thisnameisok

I have an NOS alfine 11 SG-700 i.e. the older version. Looking for recommendations from those who have successfully managed to use it trouble-free for many years

what should i keep a check for to avoid troubles?
How often should i change the oil?
Is there any other oil that you have tried which works?
Does everyone get an oil leak? How to keep it in check?
Anything else?

Thank you for your help.

(I understand there is loooong thread elsewhere but i am looking for more updated responses)

Dan Burkhart 

The most important oil change is the first one and should definitely be done on schedule.
I serviced one recently that the owner had used ATF instead of the Shimano oil. I don’t believe that the ATF did any damage to the hub, but it was obviously incompatible with the drive side cap as it had swollen to the point that the threads no longer engaged the hub and all the oil had leaked out.
I have tested ATF in Alfine 8 speed hubs but the bearings in those hubs are greased which forms a partial barrier to oil webpage.
The 11 speed bearings are oil bath so the cap is fully exposed.
I have observed swelling of the cap on the 8 speed hubs as well but to a lesser degree.
My observations and tests have led me to conclude that there are good reasons to stick with the OEM oil.
Others have used gear lube and their results may differ.

FBinNY 

Consider Dan an expert on these and take his advice to heart.

calamarichris

Maybe I'm a wuss, but I believe in sticking with the manufacturer's recommendations and products. The Shimano oil change kit and a can of oil (which will last you forever-ever-ever) are cheap enough. Never had any leaks, never had any problems, though I don't ride off-road or in rainy conditions much. Two of these hubs on two bikes, probably ten thousand miles between the two of them. Try to change the oil every two years, but I've been late a few times with no problems. I also take them for a ten-mile+ rode to "heat up the oil" which has been my motorcycle tradition for decades, to good effect. The used oil still drains clear out of the hub and I've never seen any shavings or grit.
I have a Jtek bar-end shifter on one of them, which is AWESOME, but the shifts are lightly indexed, so it's possible to do a "half-shift" when you're in a hurry, which could possibly damage the gear teeth.





I love riding this bike, and once you've adjusted to ensuring you're not between gears, it's so sweet.

Dan Burkhart 

A minor point, but it is not actually the gear teeth that are subject to damage, but the engagement pawls that couple the sun gears to the axle and the internal splines on the sun gears that can take damage from partial engagement.

Dan Burkhart 

Thanks, but you know the definition of an expert, right? The clue is in the first two letters.

calamarichris

I say this with absolutely no sarcasm, but I marvel at minds like yours. I've watched at least a half-dozen Youtube videos (some of them twice) very closely,. I've also opened cleaned, and re-oiled my Alfine-8 hubs a few times. I've torn-down and rebuilt entire motorcycles. Yet these hubs are still black-magic to my puny non-engineering brain. I also never passed calculus. Is calculus required? Because I'm thinking calculus might be involved with the planetary gears and such in there.

Duragrouch

No calculus, but the design of meshing gear teeth is serious geometry, aiming for rolling (instead of sliding) contact throughout the entire tooth engagement, this greatly reduces tooth wear.

The planetary gears are not complex themselves on a 3-speed, but when you get to hubs like a Rohloff 14, the drive-paths can be very complex and difficult to keep straight for even us engineers with extraordinary 3D spatial-relations skills. But those specializing in such things, get better at it with time. Modern Computer Aided Design (CAD) with solid modeling, including the ability to different color parts, instantly add or remove parts from an assembly, and actually produce an animation of all the parts in motion, helps a lot (and produces great youtube videos!).

Dan Burkhart 

The real masterminds are the people who design and build these things. I just have fun figuring out how they work.

tcs

And to think, all William Reilly had back in 1901 was a piece of paper and a pencil.

Dan Burkhart 

That’s the model BSA cloned and produced into the mid 50s

tcs

Yes, the second illustration, which is a licensed copy of the Sturmey-Archer Model X, 1909-1914, designed by William Reilly. All BSA did to Reilly's design was remove the ball bearings on the planet gears.

Duragrouch

We went to the moon and back on paper drawings. The above represents real craft, and immense mental visualization stills when the design is at the concept level. My engineering career started on a board. So it can be done. But CAD sure does help speed the conceptual process. Once the design moves to making parts, a few mouse clicks turns each 3D solid model into 2D dimensioned drawings, followed by fine tuning of those. Then solid models can generate automated tool paths for mass production, and even prototypes. Rohloff 14:

Rick_D

Yes, first break-in change will present metal shavings/powder/whatevs and needs attending to. Subsequent ones are a longer interval.
IDK about ATM, but synth gear oil is a popular substitute for the Shimano stuff--Royal Purple and Red Line are popular.

My issues have been leaking seals, some of which are replaceable and others, not. My one bike with the 11-sp hub has perhaps 20k mi and I've gone through three, due to seal leaks. Shop serviced, not DIY.

sweeks

I've used Royal Purple 75w-140 in my Alfine 11 for around 10,000 miles with no problems. I used the Shimano oil for the first change; a kit with the necessary syringe and tube came with enough for the flush and fill. As far as I could tell, the only real differences were color and price. I also use this oil for dipping my Nexus gears once a year.

hevysrf

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=64432

60 pages there, many older posts so relevant to your older hub.

I'm running valvoline 75w-90 gl5 full synthetic in a newer hub, about 1 year old with 2 k miles.

I've drilled and tapped the hub for a second hole about 90° away from the original to allow for easier drainage.

I used a brass bolt for one of the plugs and drilled it with a 3mm bit, then epoxied 3mm round magnets into the hole to catch any ferrous debris, so far it has only accumulated very tiny filings that almost feel like fuzz.

So far leakage hasn't been terrible, but I think I'm going to replace the right hand dust cap next time I change the oil.

thisnameisok

Thank you all for your guidance
Unfortunately, after posting in this forum, I tried several retailers where I live and none have the OEM oil and importing it would be quite expensive. I think I'll sell this hub and move back to a derailleur drivetrain or something simpler to maintain like the Nexus8.

Duragrouch

Yeah, I would suspect that (what I've heard) Alfine 11 has roller clutches and not pawls, the lube would be special. Not something you would find at typical retailers, but one would think that a bike repair shop that does IGHs would sell some, but perhaps not, they might only buy in bulk for their own use.

Just another thing to reinforce my view that IGHs are more expensive to maintain. Don't need maintenance as often, but critical to do, and lube needs to be correct (I had thought not previously, but this thread and others have convinced me, better stay with recommended lube).

tcs

With Sturmey-Archer IGHs, it's considered de rigueur here on BikeForums that the poster will use something other than the factory-specified lubricant*.



*And Sturmey even defines readily available commercial equivalents!

tcs

Funny. I mentioned this possibility once and because BikeForums had someone post back I didn't know what I was talking about because they'd put 117,000 miles on their Nexus using nothing but ATF and never had a problem.

thisnameisok

yes and unfortunately if you mess it up, you have to replace the whole thing !

thisnameisok

There's one BF user who has also used royal purple exclusively on his Alfine 11 and had no problems. But there aren't many other voices..

Duragrouch

"You'll need a new wheel." There's one place in this city that is renowned for IGH service, they can fix them, but probably not if serious corrosion or surface galling. Aaron's Bike Repair, the following is from their website. Notably, they also say they no longer service Rohloff, as the company will no longer send them seals and other parts, so I can't say if the following applies to those:

thisnameisok

Thanks for sharing! I have been to Aaron's informative site - however I don't live in the US so can't avail of his services.

He mentions Lucas Heavy Duty 80W-90 Gear Oil in the same line as the Shimano and Rohloff oil, so perhaps there is an alternative. However, on his shimano IGH specific page, he writes "Use only Shimano SG-S700 Oil in the Alfine 11 hubs. Other lubes may cause seal swelling or deterioration." and "The main seal should be replaced every oil change to prevent leaks." Perhaps too conservative but still can be a best practise. Anyway, too much work for me as compared to a derailleur-drivetrain

Duragrouch

I have not yet engaged the services of Aaron's, but they have a reputation for knowing their stuff. You should read their (anti)-carbon fiber page, they strongly recommend against the material for anything unless you are a competitive racer. Convinced me.

Don't live in the US? Well that's not what it says on your profile, dangit! But I assumed you don't live local to Seattle, even if in the US, it can cost a lot to ship wheels these days. But I figured the website may have good info you can just apply locally yourself.