chicagogal

I could use some perspective on this....

I was invited by a few friends on what I though was going to be endurance-paced ride of 75-80mi. They started at a pace that was definitely not going to be sustainable for me for that distance. When I told them that, they told me to HTFU, hide/protect myself (there were only four people in the group), or risk getting dropped. I have never invited anyone to join me on a ride and then drop them, so I was pretty offended by their attitude. I ended up bailing and riding home alone.

I am an experienced rider, not particularly slow (former racer)... but maybe I just have too narrow an understanding of cycling etiquette.

Am I right to be upset? Did my friends do something "wrong"?

Heathpack 

Are your friends men? And you are a woman?

chicagogal

Does gender change the etiquette rules?

Heathpack 

Nope. I just didn't want to get into my take on it if I'm wrong.

But my guess is they are men and they are simply clueless. I find this all the time- men tell me to "just hide in the draft" or to "just keep coming out every week". They do not have a comprehension of the physiologic differences between a 50 year old woman and a 40 year old man. They don't understand that when they are putting out 250 watts for 5 mins up a little rise that I am gonna get dropped. Its not a matter of drafting or training diligence. Its physiology. Yes, some women can do it. The younger, the more fast twitch, the better the woman's high end power and ability to surge-and-recover, the more likely it is she will be able to hang. But these women who hang are the 1%ers, or maybe the 5%ers, depending on how strong the men are. They are not the 50%ers, like the men themselves may be.

My experience is that many men genuinely think women are doing it wrong and they think you will learn by being dropped.

So yes its rude and poor etiquette but its extremely common.

ksryder

No.

If it's a no mercy ride, then that should be made clear with the invitation.

tagaproject6

Your friends are awful...find new ones. But then again, humans are awful. Get a dog.

chicagogal

Thanks healthpack (and you are correct about the gender makeup of the group). This is basically how I feel too. Unless it is a race-paced group ride with some folks at the front drilling it and the rest hanging on for dear life, I think that a group ride should prioritize working together and these guys were not doing that.

woodcraft

80 miles is on the long side for a hammerhead ride,

but if you're an experienced rider then I would think that this dynamic would be completely familiar.

WhyFi

They sound like ********.

chicagogal

Familiar or not, I guess my point is that I expect a ride to be conducted as advertised. A couple hammerheads show up for a casual ride, then it's ok for them to change up the ride so they can race each other? And anyone who showed up for the advertised endurance-paced ride is out of luck? Just because this happens doesn't make it ok.

caloso

Yeah, no. That's not cool.

Bah Humbug

I have very strong feelings on the concept of "group" rides (or runs). If it's a "group" workout, the group is supposed to stay together unless explicitly stated otherwise. If I'm running with someone faster, I want that person to drag me to running just a little faster than I think I can. If I'm the faster runner, I'm going to try to push that other person out of their comfort zone, but not drop them. Group rides are the same thing: if I'm the fastest, I'll try to do most of the work and provide a good draft. If I'm slower, I'll tuck and hang onto the draft and feel rather salty if I get dropped anyway. Again, this is unless explicitly stated otherwise - I've done out & back shop rides that are polite out/ hell-for-leather back, and everyone knows it and it was covered beforehand if someone new showed up. And that was literally like 14 miles back, so not much of a big deal.

So in short I'm 100% with you on this. If you (impersonal you, whoever else was at this ride) are going to go your speed no matter what, it's not really a "group" ride.

Heathpack 

I find that its not ok but its pretty much the norm. God forbid the local ex pro shows up for a ride. The 50%ers are slaying themselves to prove they can hang with him (even though the local ex pro is riding a recovery ride), all other considerations are thrown out the window.

Lol, to me most group rides populated by men leave me feeling something akin to how you might feel after a guy ejaculates prematurely- glad you enjoyed yourself but somehow I'm left unsatisfied.

Which is not to say its impossible. Some men can actually stick to the group ride plan. I remember once having such a fun group ride with my cat 1 coach and a bunch of his teammates up in Napa. They could effortlessly just ride the pace we were supposed to ride and I had so much fun, hanging on and grooving in the draft and going fast for 60 miles. It was awesome. But unless its your significant other, I would say don't count on much from most male group rides. Its just not realistic.

caloso

I go on group rides all the time where riders can be and are dropped all the time. And that's fine for those rides: they're on the same route every week, they're known as race rides, that how hard they will be is dictated by the wind and who shows up, and everybody knows that they need to be self-sufficient and can get home on their own if necessary. But that's known up front.

It's quite a different thing when it's a small group, you were told it was going to be one pace and no-drop, and then when you get there it's now all of a sudden "HTFU we're not waiting for you." That sucks, and if it were me, I'd find other people to ride with.

indyfabz

I hate that. There are some notables in my club who will show up on casual, Sunday afternoon C rides. The sort of ride I might do in the beginning of the season on that tank that is my Surly LHT. They continuously go off the front and then wait for people, sometimes with these looks that say "What took you so long?" I can only assume that they don't go on the faster rides for fear of being dropped.

Zaskar

Take it as a compliment... they were in rooster mode - trying to impress you. ;-)

But yeah... that was a **** move on their part.

HTupolev

I'm not sure of just how "C" these C rides are, but having a mixed group with regroup points - with the slowest paceline serving as a steady sweep - can be a decent ride format. People can show up and be steady if they feel like it, people can hammer if they feel like it, people can be dropped and go to a slower paceline if they feel like it, and people can be dropped and then have the same people who dropped them beat the crap out of them again if they feel like it. And it all works out pretty well. If there's a huge performance gap between the fastest riders and the slowest paceline, then the regroup takes too long and the group needs a full split. But otherwise, it's pretty excellent.

chainwhip

It's not the gender.
It's the maturity level.

woodcraft

I hear you & have been there,

just surprised that you sounded surprised about a common dynamic.

I was kind of on the other end last weekend, when a group of 5 or 6 went a bit faster than advertised.

One guy hung back with the newish, slower rider, & it worked out fine.

Clipped_in

I agree with others OP that they did to you was lame--plain and simple.

indyfabz

There is a leader who lists the ride through a club. The leader is required to fulfill certain responsibilities. Having led rides I know that can be problematic when you have people all over the place. Even if you say "Off the front and you are on your own" like I usually do there is still a nagging little voce that creates some concern for people who go off the front. And when people off the front don't aren't following the route they usually stop at intersection and can slow the progress (e.g., by clogging up the road) of those of us who know where they are going. In the end, I don't get it. If you want to go on a faster ride with a few people why not organize your own ride?

Dean V

You are right. They certainly didn't act like friends (or even decent humans). But unfortunately it is fairly typical "roadie" behaviour.

TimothyH

It behooves the one invited to ask questions about the event they are invited to before accepting the invitation. Is this a drop or no-drop ride? What is the expected pace? Etc.

The one who invited should have been considerate enough to make this clear during the invitation.

Sounds like a lack of communication between both parties.


-Tim-

chicagogal

Yes, it is a common dynamic, and I should be used to it... for the purposes of full disclosure, one of the hammerheads was actually a family member. Some anonymous roadie acting like an *** happens all the time and we all laugh about it later. But this wasn't that, it was a family member, and close friends. The family member typically looks to me for advice on group riding because I have more experience, but he doesn't seem to think that there was anything wrong about what he did. I posted here because I thought maybe I was being too sensitive or rigid or something.

Campag4life

You couldn't be more wrong. It simply is what it is. It isn't gender specific, only your sensitivity we all have about not being strong enough. None of us ride at the pro level or even CAT 1 level. There is a woman in the town I ride who can drop me after 30 miles if she wants. If not 30 miles, then 50 miles. She can drop most men in my town. We love her. She's a great girl. But she drops people.

The group riding dynamic is what it is. Some are drop rides. If you can't measure up, boy, girl, giraffe or dog, you get dropped. Sure there maybe some chavenism involved. People are flawed and can be petty. Why do drop rides exist? I have been dropped on drop rides when rules of engagement are if you can't keep up, you will get dropped.
There are B and C rides where nobody gets drops. After the ride everybody shares a Pizza and sings Kubya.

Some people are more predatory by nature. I have always maintained in my experience, A level group rides are not the friendliest place to be. People like to prove they are superior. Perhaps they feel inferior themselves.

OP, that is life. Choose another group to ride with. Find some real friends to ride with. Friends respect others strengths and weaknesses.

Most of all, group riding is dangerous. So pick your riding partners carefully including the temperament of people you ride with.

Ride safe and have fun with it. The world is made up of all kind of people. What you reflect is common. Very little to do with gender though as a general stereotype, men likely overall are more dominant by nature. The girl that drops all the men in my town who is a good friend of mine and as mentioned is a great girl, she loves beating men on the bike. She happens to have all brothers.