cs1

My feeling exactly. It's a good deal and has a certain vintage flair. In case nobody is looking, the price of used bike is on the rise. Vintage Trek touring rigs are getting very pricey. The $25 garage sale finds are getting very rare.

mkeller234

I'm about one hour south of Cleveland, so far this year has definitely offered up less vintage finds. The few worthwhile ones that have popped up on CL are either gone in the blink of an eye or priced higher. I feel a little fortunate that I don't have any real needs, just wants.

noglider 

Zaphod, I have a Trek 720 you may want. It needs heavy refurbishment.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Thanks for the heads up Tom, PM sent.

NormanF

You've never tried 650B. I converted a Peugeot PX 10 to it and the ride can only be described like riding on clouds. Once you try 650B with sweet Panaracer Col De La Vie tires, you'll be positively delighted at the incredible comfort without sacrificing speed.

mudboy

I'll admit it. I don't "get" 650b. How would it be any more "riding on clouds" than a 700c tire with a similar cross-section?

NormanF

The main reason for a 650B is that most road bikes have no room at all for larger 700C tires and even the few that do have no room at all for fenders. So when you move over to 650B on a road bike, you do two things: you reduce standover height, making the bike safer to ride and more stable and you gain room to install fenders on a road bike. In short, you can transform a road bike into a city type bike for not too much money. Once you do the conversion and the late Sheldon Brown wrote an article about 650B - you will not want to return to your old road bike configuration.

ScottRyder 

+1

Scott

mickey85

I think if you compare say, a 700X38 vs. a 650X38, you won't see much difference. Perhaps the slightly smaller wheels would help with torque transfer?

The biggest thing though is if you want to ride your road bike on rougher roads, or on stuff where 23-28c tires might not be as forgiving, and you don't have the clearance to go with a fatter 700c tire (although, I haven't ever found a use to go fatter than 32c unless off-road), you switch to 650 to give yourself more width, as the rear triangle and fork are rather triangular, and open up closer to the hub.

For instance, the widest tire that I can absolutely positively fit with a 27" wheel on my Fuji Palisade is a 32c. I might be able to stretch it to 33-34c with 700c, but with 650b? How wide do you want? 38's would be easy, and I could probably get to 42 without rubbing.

noglider 

I don't get it, either, so maybe I have to try it.

I have a Surly Cross Check. Unlike other bikes, it has plenty of room for fat tires and fenders. Right now, I have racing wheels and narrow tires on it. With fenders.

clasher

I wish they'd have popularised nicer 650A rims and tires instead of resurrecting the obscure 650b. I've put 590mm wheelsets on a couple of old bikes and I really like the ride. There are millions of frames made for iso-590 wheels. I guess 6mm or whatever the difference isn't noticeable but it just smacks of silly marketing.

nlerner

In my stable are bikes with 559, 584 (650B), 590 (EA3/650A), 597 (EA1), 622 (700c), and 630mm (27") wheels. In my experience wheel size allows certain possibilities (like wider tires on go-fast geometry bikes), but the quality of the tires is really key. My Ebisu has 584 x 41mm Grand Bois Hetre tires at 50 psi, and it's like riding on a fast cloud. But I also really like Pasela 700 x 32mm tires, as well as Pasela 27 x 1 1/4" tires (which measure about 32mm wide). It's all good.

Neal

noglider 

clasher, I agree! The selection of rims and tires for 650A is too small. If they had revived THAT size, imagine all the life we could breathe into old three-speeds and one-speeds!

mickey85

I'd be happy with more than 3 or 4 domestic 590 tires...

Just about the only one that seems to have anything positive is the Col de la Vie, but I haven't really looked that extensively. The Bell Speedsters (Sportster? eh) that I have on my 3 speeds are actually really fantastic - fast, relatively light, and best of all, $14,99 at the local box mart.

noglider 

Really? Good to know. The 27" tire I got at Walmart was very heavy.

tcs

The principle promoters of the 650B also own tire molds to produce this obscure size.

tcs

mickey85

Well, it's not the lightest thing, but comparing that to the 50 year old tires I got on the new Sports, it's about half as heavy, and are comparable to the 20-30 year old tires I get on most of my 590's. being a 40 lb bike, weight isn't too much of a concern, but it's not terrible.

For comparison, similarly treaded Kendas on my 700X38 bike make the thing feel like riding through molasses. I lose an average of 3-4 mph going from lighter 32's to the 38's.

NormanF

Hardly an obscure wheel size. It was the dominant wheel size on French city and loaded touring bikes for decades and only now has undergone something of a renaissance. Its still found on a lot of bikes throughout continental Europe. Only the 700B size rivals it on city bikes found in the Low Countries.

noglider 

I can't find 700a or 700b with google. What sizes are they?

mickey85

Looking at Sheldon's site, 700A is 642mm (and marked as obsolete), and 700b is 635, or the roadster style 28."

I"m assuming that means that all of the Raleigh roadsters, Pashleys, and a lot of Dutch bikes are 700B.

I'd like to try 584, maybe on the Fuji, but the cost of a wheelset is rather prohibitive.

I wish that I could find a relatively inexpensive set of new Raleigh pattern (read: rod brake) 590's. Be even better if someone made them in aluminum. But, while I'm wishing, I'd also like a pony

Business810

I'm also in the camp that doesn't quite "get" 650B, but I also haven't really tried it. I'm content with riding skinnier tires, and it's not terribly difficult to find a frame (new or old) that can fit at least a moderate width 700C.

On the original topic, the VO kit seems like a good deal for what it is - especially if used as a city bike. As a tourer, though, I would think that the less conventional tire size could pose problems. Good luck if you need a replacement tire while on the road.

NormanF

A Velocity Blunt wheelset can be had inexpensively. And you do need a loooong reach brakeset (Tektro R556) fulfills it nicely matched with some Tektro inverse brake levers. And there's Panaracer Col De La Vie's. So its not really prohibitive.

NormanF

They do make 590s in alloy. Harris Cyclery and Niagara Cyclery should have Sun CR18 rims in stock. The French designation would be 650A. Its only 6 mm larger in circumference than the continental 650B which is 584.

mickey85

Yes, I"m well aware of that. I'm meaning this pattern:



again, thanks to Sheldon.

Anyway, it's not the same as the Sun rims (which are just simple, standard rims), but it has a raised spoke bed so that the brakes don't take a flying leap of death into the spokes while riding.

The Sun rims might be a benefit when I redo the Phillips (if I redo the Phillips - I don't see much wrong with steel rims), but are useless when talking rod brakes.

Also, the CR18's only come with 36 spoke holes - I'd need 32/40 for both bikes in question.

cudak888 

Westrick pattern.

-Kurt