Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Do you stop at stop signs?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Do you stop at stop signs?

Old 08-17-20, 09:00 AM
  #101  
CoraSnyder
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thread moved from General to A&S.
CoraSnyder is offline  
Old 08-19-20, 09:25 AM
  #102  
KenRick
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I think of every traffic light and stop sign as Stop all ways. Once I slow and make sure there isn't incoming traffic, I'll go with confidence.
I usually keep pedaling at the greens, although now I don't believe I should do it with 100% confidence anymore.
KenRick is offline  
Likes For KenRick:
Old 08-19-20, 11:11 AM
  #103  
Elbeinlaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by flangehead
He said he didn't see me
The single most convincing thing that changed my conduct when I started bicycle commuting years ago was to read as many accident reports as I could find. EVERY SINGLE ONE--let me repeat that--EVERY SINGLE ONE had the motorist saying "I didn't see them." Physically, that's probably impossible. But in terms of the way drivers process information, I think that's true: they don't process bicycles for some reason.

Should they? Yes.

Are they too distracted? Yes.

Do some of those drivers belong off the streets? Yes.

But facts is facts. We are invisible to them. Having been nearly hit now twice in a week (don't tell my wife) even with day-glo clothing and blinking lights and now a horn, I'm dialing back my cycling to commuting days and stopping (or California-stopping) at stop signs, driveways, intersecting streets. I'm not quite ready to be dead.
Elbeinlaw is offline  
Likes For Elbeinlaw:
Old 08-19-20, 05:17 PM
  #104  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 8,237

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3846 Post(s)
Liked 6,437 Times in 3,183 Posts
Do you stop at stop signs?
I always try not to. Some, I blow through as fast as I can. If there's a cop around, I'll slow way down and knod to him.
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 08-19-20, 05:21 PM
  #105  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 4,299

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2208 Post(s)
Liked 960 Times in 686 Posts
I would give this a "mostly, yes" in that for many of the stop signs in the area(s) I (used to) ride NOT stopping would end up with you as a long greasy streak down a state highway. In neighborhoods and back roads with clear view likely not.
Juan Foote is offline  
Likes For Juan Foote:
Old 08-21-20, 10:25 AM
  #106  
Sorg67
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 226

Bikes: 1991 Diamondback Apex, 2015 Trek Verve 3, 2020 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 58 Posts
I am a hypocrite. I do not stop for stop signs, but I think I should.

If we do not follow the rules of the road then we forfeit our right to complain about cars, trucks and motorcycles who do not respect our right to share the road with them.

I am just starting to ride more and I am revisiting my position on this subject. Not sure I will stop when I have a clear view and am completely sure there is no one in my way. But will I really ever be 100% sure there is not a pedestrian about to step out of a shadow, from behind a tree, a small child easy to miss?
Sorg67 is offline  
Likes For Sorg67:
Old 08-21-20, 10:34 AM
  #107  
Sorg67
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 226

Bikes: 1991 Diamondback Apex, 2015 Trek Verve 3, 2020 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by Elbeinlaw
"I didn't see them." Physically, that's probably impossible. But in terms of the way drivers process information, I think that's true: they don't process bicycles for some reason.

But facts is facts. We are invisible to them.
This is true. The eyes take in everything but the brain cannot process everything so it prioritizes. You may have seen Navy ships that have a grey black camouflage. This is to break up the silhouette and trick the brain into ignoring it.

Sometimes hi viz vest can make you less visible. The brain filters is out as "trash bag", "crossing guard" or "construction worker" and ignores it assuming it is not a threat, not expecting it to be moving as fast as a bicycle moves. Hunter orange may stand out in the woods, but not in the city.

Perception of speed and distance is another issue. Two headlights create a means of judging distance and speed. One little headlight on a bicycle is difficult to judge either speed or distance.
Sorg67 is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 12:26 AM
  #108  
Packa1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Almost hit someone once cause he didn’t stop.
Packa1 is offline  
Likes For Packa1:
Old 08-24-20, 06:03 AM
  #109  
holytrousers
hoppipola
 
holytrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 423

Bikes: fausto coppi

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by Packa1
Almost hit someone once cause he didn’t stop.
Were you operating a motorized vehicle ?
holytrousers is offline  
Likes For holytrousers:
Old 08-24-20, 06:09 AM
  #110  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 4,299

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2208 Post(s)
Liked 960 Times in 686 Posts
I was watching the video article about the latest Cannonball Run winner. They made record time across the US during the Rona "pandemic". The narrator of the story pointed out that one of the hardest aspects of the whole trip was Manhattan. He said that since this has been going on the city is taken over with cyclists and pedestrians, the former running stop signs and lights like they don't even exist. Had several near incidents as they made their way out of the city/to the highway.
Juan Foote is offline  
Likes For Juan Foote:
Old 08-24-20, 06:29 AM
  #111  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by Juan Foote
I was watching the video article about the latest Cannonball Run winner. They made record time across the US during the Rona "pandemic". The narrator of the story pointed out that one of the hardest aspects of the whole trip was Manhattan. He said that since this has been going on the city is taken over with cyclists and pedestrians, the former running stop signs and lights like they don't even exist. Had several near incidents as they made their way out of the city/to the highway.
The Manhattan portion of the Cannonball Run takes about 5 minutes, out of a “race” that takes over 24 hours. To give you an idea how “fast” the "race" is through Manhattan, it takes about ten minutes to ride a citibike crosstown from the Red Ball.

Cannonball has been and always will be a horribly dangerous stunt by irresponsible groups of “people.”

That you bought into their propaganda about bicyclists and pedestrians is amazing.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 08-24-20 at 07:34 AM.
mr_bill is offline  
Likes For mr_bill:
Old 08-24-20, 08:23 AM
  #112  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 4,299

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2208 Post(s)
Liked 960 Times in 686 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
The Manhattan portion of the Cannonball Run takes about 5 minutes, out of a “race” that takes over 24 hours. To give you an idea how “fast” the "race" is through Manhattan, it takes about ten minutes to ride a citibike crosstown from the Red Ball.

Cannonball has been and always will be a horribly dangerous stunt by irresponsible groups of “people.”

That you bought into their propaganda about bicyclists and pedestrians is amazing.

-mr. bill
Why is relaying part of what the fellow said about his experience "buying in" to anything?
I personally enjoy the story behind and history of these trials. It's a neat part of Americana and cool car guy stuff, IF illegal AND irresponsible as heck.
This wasn't some pass judgement call, or trying to say one is better than the other. Lighten up Francis.
Juan Foote is offline  
Likes For Juan Foote:
Old 08-25-20, 07:32 PM
  #113  
closetbiker
Senior Member
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Like pretty much everyone else, I stop on my bike, as often as I stop when I’m driving my car.

I see this as a people problem. It bugs me that people think of it as a cycling problem because it reveals people who do not want to face the truth that motorists, like cyclists, are people
closetbiker is offline  
Old 08-30-20, 10:34 PM
  #114  
50PlusCycling
Senior Member
 
50PlusCycling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,079
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times in 381 Posts
Running a red light on a bicycle in most places will get you the same ticket, same fine, same points on your drivers license, and same hike in your insurance as you would get if you were driving a car. Yet most cyclists seem to run stop signs without a second thought. That usually changes after they get a ticket.
50PlusCycling is offline  
Old 08-30-20, 11:11 PM
  #115  
Chistophe516
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Pittsboro, NC
Posts: 156

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Yes
Chistophe516 is offline  
Old 08-30-20, 11:13 PM
  #116  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling
Running a red light on a bicycle in most places will get you the same ticket, same fine, same points on your drivers license, and same hike in your insurance as you would get if you were driving a car. Yet most cyclists seem to run stop signs without a second thought. That usually changes after they get a ticket.
Maybe true some places, but absolutely not most. Twenty states do not consider a bicycle to be a vehicle-- and beyond that, as a license is not required to operate one in any state, there's no way to gets points on your driver's license (or have your license affected in any way) from any infraction incurred while on a bicycle. Same for insurance. Your insurance cannot penalize you for a violation on a non-vehicle. What you get is a ticket-- which is generally accompanied by a fine. Similar to a ticket for a cracked windshield or a headlight out in a car. Bicycles are not cars, and the laws in place for cars do not generally take bicycles into account. So I reciprocate.

Jurisdictions would only target cyclists as a source of revenue. There is no applicable public safety issue-- maybe 1-2 people a year get killed by someone on a bicycle (fault notwithstanding) while cars hit over 130,000 pedestrians a year, and kill one every 88 minutes.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Likes For DrIsotope:
Old 08-31-20, 01:03 AM
  #117  
50PlusCycling
Senior Member
 
50PlusCycling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,079
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times in 381 Posts
Originally Posted by DrIsotope
Maybe true some places, but absolutely not most. Twenty states do not consider a bicycle to be a vehicle-- and beyond that, as a license is not required to operate one in any state, there's no way to gets points on your driver's license (or have your license affected in any way) from any infraction incurred while on a bicycle. Same for insurance. Your insurance cannot penalize you for a violation on a non-vehicle. What you get is a ticket-- which is generally accompanied by a fine. Similar to a ticket for a cracked windshield or a headlight out in a car. Bicycles are not cars, and the laws in place for cars do not generally take bicycles into account. So I reciprocate.

Jurisdictions would only target cyclists as a source of revenue. There is no applicable public safety issue-- maybe 1-2 people a year get killed by someone on a bicycle (fault notwithstanding) while cars hit over 130,000 pedestrians a year, and kill one every 88 minutes.
You are wrong in one perspective. Though you don't need to have a license to ride a bike in some states, you can still be issued a ticket for running a stop sign or red light. And yes, you will indeed get points on your driving record. You do not need to have a drivers license to have a driving record. More than one parent has had a child who has gotten a ticket while riding a bike, and then found out that points from those tickets applied to their kids' driving record when they eventually got their licenses.

Jurisdictions generally do not target anyone as a source of revenue, it is a matter of public safety. In case you never learned it in driving school, running stop signs is dangerous, and people, including bicyclists, have been killed when running red lights. Perhaps you can argue that drinking gasoline is not really a bad thing, or that hunting for tigers in India with a pocket knife is not entirely silly. Anyone with a grasp of language and a little skill at debating can make a persuasive argument to support the most ludicrous thing.

As a former traffic homicide officer for large police department, I am familiar with the subject.
50PlusCycling is offline  
Old 08-31-20, 07:05 AM
  #118  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling
You are wrong in one perspective. Though you don't need to have a license to ride a bike in some states, you can still be issued a ticket for running a stop sign or red light. And yes, you will indeed get points on your driving record. You do not need to have a drivers license to have a driving record. More than one parent has had a child who has gotten a ticket while riding a bike, and then found out that points from those tickets applied to their kids' driving record when they eventually got their licenses.
You are wrong in many perspectives. This varies state to state, dramatically. Some states don't even have "points" for example.

Here in Massachusetts, M.G.L. Chapter 85 Section 11 E, the relevant excerpt:

"A police officer shall use the ticketing procedure described in chapter 90C to cite a bicyclist for a traffic law violation but the violation shall not affect the status of the bicyclist's license to operate a motor vehicle nor shall it affect the bicyclist's status in the safe driver insurance plan. When a citation is issued to a bicyclist, it shall be clearly indicated on the ticket that the violator is a bicyclist, and failure to do so shall be a defense to the violation.

The parent or guardian of a person under 18 years of age shall not authorize or knowingly permit that person to violate this section. A violation of this section by a person under 18 years of age shall not affect any civil right or liability nor shall the violation be a criminal offense. If the offender is under 16 years of age, the officer may give the notice to the parent or guardian of the offender."

The bicycle equipment regulations (and a couple of bicycle specific moving violations) are covered in Chapter 85 Section 11B, relevant excerpt:

"Violations of any provision of this section except violations of subclause (iii) of clause (2) shall be punished by a fine of not more than twenty dollars. The parent or guardian of any person under age eighteen shall not authorize or knowingly permit any such person to violate any of the provisions of this section. A bicycle operated by a person under the age of eighteen in violation of this section may be impounded by the police department, or in a town which has no police department, by the selectmen, for a period not to exceed fifteen days. A violation of any provision of this section by a minor under the age of eighteen shall not affect any civil right or liability nor shall such violation be considered a criminal offense."

Finally, driver's points accumulated from birth? I'll have to pull a Missouri on you. Show me ONE state.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 08-31-20 at 09:27 AM.
mr_bill is offline  
Likes For mr_bill:
Old 08-31-20, 07:29 AM
  #119  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
I do always love a "letter of the law" argument. They're awesome. The statement that cops only write tickets in the interest of public safety is-- despite the fact that I read it at 6am-- the funniest thing I will read all day.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Likes For DrIsotope:
Old 08-31-20, 07:43 AM
  #120  
Sorg67
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 226

Bikes: 1991 Diamondback Apex, 2015 Trek Verve 3, 2020 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker
Like pretty much everyone else, I stop on my bike, as often as I stop when I’m driving my car.
That has not been my observation. I almost always come to a complete stop in a car and rarely come to a complete stop on my bicycle. My practice is similar to the practice of most I ride with and see on the road.

I think we should stop more. I have started to slow down more. But I only come to a complete stop for major roads or if there are vehicles in my way.
Sorg67 is offline  
Old 08-31-20, 03:58 PM
  #121  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times in 936 Posts
I generally don't stop for stop signs here in our small town, but the traffic level is low. Especially if I'm out riding at 5 AM. But... I constantly look out for traffic both directions several times before proceeding through.

That being said, if I'm riding in an unfamiliar area, I tend to stop at stop signs. At home, I know which streets are going to be the busy streets. When I'm out elsewhere, I won't know how likely there is to be cross traffic.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Likes For Milton Keynes:
Old 09-01-20, 04:32 AM
  #122  
Sorg67
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 226

Bikes: 1991 Diamondback Apex, 2015 Trek Verve 3, 2020 Specialized Diverge

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 58 Posts
I have been more aware of the conditions around stop signs recently. Often the combination of slower speed and better visibility on a bicycle gets me to a stop sign with confidence that it is safe to proceed with out stopping. This is true less often in a car.

Bicycles are also more maneuverable and accelerate more slowly. Therefore I think that bicycles not stopping for stop signs is considerably safer for others than a car. The greater exposure on a bicycle changes the calculus around safety for the rider.

However, I think bicycle riders should come to a complete stop at stop signs because not matter how much you think you see, you cannot possibly see everything. Stopping helps others you might not see, see you and behave accordingly.

In addition, I think we should stop to engender respect from others on road ways. Respect of others makes us all safer since the respect of others will increase the courtesy we benefit from.

I do not see myself stopping completely all the time, but I am going to slow down more. And I will yield right of way where I should.
Sorg67 is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 06:46 AM
  #123  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times in 936 Posts
Generally, when I roll through a stop sign on my bike, I'm not rolling through any faster than most cars usually do. Plus with far less weight than a car, I can stop a lot quicker if I need to.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Old 09-01-20, 10:03 AM
  #124  
Notso_fastLane
Senior Member
 
Notso_fastLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 1,606

Bikes: 2011 Bent TW Elegance 2014 Carbon Strada Velomobile

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Liked 701 Times in 418 Posts
Originally Posted by Sorg67
That has not been my observation. I almost always come to a complete stop in a car and rarely come to a complete stop on my bicycle. My practice is similar to the practice of most I ride with and see on the road.

I think we should stop more. I have started to slow down more. But I only come to a complete stop for major roads or if there are vehicles in my way.
My behavior in my motorized vehicles is about the same as it is on my bikes. I slow to the point where I can stop in less than 3 feet if need be. If there is no traffic, I continue through. If there is traffic approaching at all (like I can see them, they can see me), I stop, usually just to make sure they are stopping also if it's a 4-way, or if it's a cop.

It sucks having to come to a complete stop in my velo. That thing weighs 80 lbs, and takes a bit of work to get rolling again.
Notso_fastLane is offline  
Likes For Notso_fastLane:
Old 09-01-20, 10:34 PM
  #125  
dunkleosteus
on the wheels of steel
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: the LBC
Posts: 57

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
I stop if there's another car approaching. If I don't see anyone, I roll through. I also run red lights, but more cautiously. I'm a big fan of roads with lots of stop signs because it keeps the cars away. I think it's a bit of an unspoken rule some places that those streets are the bicycle streets.
dunkleosteus is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.