Real differences between racing and endurance bikes if geometry is similar
10-26-19, 04:55 PM
#26
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Small differences make a big difference.
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Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
10-27-19, 11:19 AM
#27
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This. No reason a Topstone shouldn’t be more than enough bike for centuries and 20mph group rides. A pair of good road wheels will make a bigger difference than a Supersix frame. Most of the geometry difference between the 2 can probably be made up by saddle adjustments and stem sizing/stacking.
10-28-19, 08:22 AM
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What would make the Supersix faster? More aero tube shapes and less weight? How much faster would this be vs an endurance bike at the same weight like a Synapse? It seems to me based on the measurements that you could get a similar fit on either, or am I missing something?
10-28-19, 08:28 AM
#29
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If you haven't already...what's keeping you from looking at the new Trek Domane? Comes with 32 by default, and can fit wider. Can also go down to a 25-28 if you're looking for something a little more race-like. While the bike is pretty heavy on the lower end, it dips down into the 17lbs range on the higher end bikes. Which isn't that bad for an endurance bike. Again, if we're talking about "marginal gains"...I could lose 20lbs of body weight before I start worrying about the fact that my bike is 2lbs heavier than my buddies. Not sure if that's true in your case or not, but it might be worth a look if you're thinking of doing a lot of centuries.
10-28-19, 08:29 AM
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I ride larger frames (62-64) and no bike I've owned in 35 years has had toe overlap. I also have big feet (49). If any of them did have it I didn't notice.
For recreational cyclists the speed differences between bikes isn't going to be much if the bikes are reasonably similar. The fit/comfort is important for century type rides.
I've always used 23 tires for everything but am thinking about trying something larger.
Why is there a FrankTuna2?
For recreational cyclists the speed differences between bikes isn't going to be much if the bikes are reasonably similar. The fit/comfort is important for century type rides.
I've always used 23 tires for everything but am thinking about trying something larger.
Why is there a FrankTuna2?
10-28-19, 08:35 AM
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This. No reason a Topstone shouldn’t be more than enough bike for centuries and 20mph group rides. A pair of good road wheels will make a bigger difference than a Supersix frame. Most of the geometry difference between the 2 can probably be made up by saddle adjustments and stem sizing/stacking.
I was just worried that if I do by a carbon road bike, I would be missing out on some speed if I went for an endurance vs a racing bike. I appreciate everyone's comments here!!! It seems like the consensus is that either type of bike can be plenty fast and I doubt I'll be leading the pack in the TdF any time soon haha. I think I'm leaning towards a geometry close to my Topstone with maybe just a bit more reach.
10-28-19, 11:39 AM
#32
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I bet the Topstone could handle the rides once I drop some more weight and work on my fitness, but I like the idea of having 2 bikes set up for different purposes. I'd also have the option to leave the Topstone on the trainer and ride the road bike or vice versa depending on my riding plans.
I was just worried that if I do by a carbon road bike, I would be missing out on some speed if I went for an endurance vs a racing bike. I appreciate everyone's comments here!!! It seems like the consensus is that either type of bike can be plenty fast and I doubt I'll be leading the pack in the TdF any time soon haha. I think I'm leaning towards a geometry close to my Topstone with maybe just a bit more reach.
I was just worried that if I do by a carbon road bike, I would be missing out on some speed if I went for an endurance vs a racing bike. I appreciate everyone's comments here!!! It seems like the consensus is that either type of bike can be plenty fast and I doubt I'll be leading the pack in the TdF any time soon haha. I think I'm leaning towards a geometry close to my Topstone with maybe just a bit more reach.
As has been said above, definitely test ride all your options and pick the one that’s most comfortable to you. I think the EF pro team ride mostly Supersix, but they make exceptions for riders who prefer rim brakes, and also they use Synapses for some races (cobble classics etc) so even at the elite level it’s a fine margin.
I ride a CAAD10 and love it; you should give the CAAD13 a whirl too, see if you notice a significant difference to the carbon bikes.
10-28-19, 02:03 PM
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You need to figure out what bike fit you want (saddle setback, height, bar drop and reach), then look at frames that allow you to get that.
Don't get hung up on labels like "endurance" and "race".
For example I have longer legs than average and can easily get what would be called a "race fit" on an endurance bike.
Don't get hung up on labels like "endurance" and "race".
For example I have longer legs than average and can easily get what would be called a "race fit" on an endurance bike.
10-28-19, 02:55 PM
#34
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As an interesting sidelight : https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...o-regrets.html
It all comes down to what you want, and how you like to ride. Some folks can ride in the full bent/flat back/ full reach long and low posture all day. Some cannot. Some don't want to.
Your best bet is to spend as long as possible traveling to bike shops all over to test whatever bikes you can find in your size, or near to it.
It all comes down to what you want, and how you like to ride. Some folks can ride in the full bent/flat back/ full reach long and low posture all day. Some cannot. Some don't want to.
Your best bet is to spend as long as possible traveling to bike shops all over to test whatever bikes you can find in your size, or near to it.
10-28-19, 03:18 PM
#35
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I've been getting serious about riding this year, and plan to train over the winter with an indoor trainer and I'm working to drop some lbs. I can hang with 18mph group rides and have done 2 centuries this year, but want to join the fast 21-22 mph group rides and do at least 4 centuries next year.
I'm looking to buy a dedicated road bike, preferably carbon that can run true 32mm tires. I already have a Topstone that's great, but I'd like to keep that set up with big tires and a rear rack.
My head is spinning with all the choices out there and I'm 6'5" so no local shops have anything in my size in stock. My Topstone is an XL, with 40.2 cm reach, 120 mm stem, and 64 cm stack. The Supersix is supposed to be a fast, race type road bike and the 62 cm has a 40.6 reach and 63.4 cm stack. That seems pretty close to my Topstone which is supposed to be a more relaxed, endurance geometry.
What would make the Supersix faster? More aero tube shapes and less weight? How much faster would this be vs an endurance bike at the same weight like a Synapse? It seems to me based on the measurements that you could get a similar fit on either, or am I missing something?
I'm looking to buy a dedicated road bike, preferably carbon that can run true 32mm tires. I already have a Topstone that's great, but I'd like to keep that set up with big tires and a rear rack.
My head is spinning with all the choices out there and I'm 6'5" so no local shops have anything in my size in stock. My Topstone is an XL, with 40.2 cm reach, 120 mm stem, and 64 cm stack. The Supersix is supposed to be a fast, race type road bike and the 62 cm has a 40.6 reach and 63.4 cm stack. That seems pretty close to my Topstone which is supposed to be a more relaxed, endurance geometry.
What would make the Supersix faster? More aero tube shapes and less weight? How much faster would this be vs an endurance bike at the same weight like a Synapse? It seems to me based on the measurements that you could get a similar fit on either, or am I missing something?
I'd recommend putting road tires on it, getting behind someone your height/weight and not being afraid to put effort in early in the ride and to get dropped. Just get dropped, everyone gets dropped. Alot of the speed differences between an 18mph ride and 21mph are just in the initial acceleration, not the steady state effort. Over the winter, work on getting your upper body low and staying low, maybe some repeat 1min anaerobic effort along with your normal steady state.
Last edited by jfranci3; 10-28-19 at 03:22 PM.
10-28-19, 11:21 PM
#36
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I bet the Topstone could handle the rides once I drop some more weight and work on my fitness, but I like the idea of having 2 bikes set up for different purposes. I'd also have the option to leave the Topstone on the trainer and ride the road bike or vice versa depending on my riding plans.
I was just worried that if I do by a carbon road bike, I would be missing out on some speed if I went for an endurance vs a racing bike. I appreciate everyone's comments here!!! It seems like the consensus is that either type of bike can be plenty fast and I doubt I'll be leading the pack in the TdF any time soon haha. I think I'm leaning towards a geometry close to my Topstone with maybe just a bit more reach.
I was just worried that if I do by a carbon road bike, I would be missing out on some speed if I went for an endurance vs a racing bike. I appreciate everyone's comments here!!! It seems like the consensus is that either type of bike can be plenty fast and I doubt I'll be leading the pack in the TdF any time soon haha. I think I'm leaning towards a geometry close to my Topstone with maybe just a bit more reach.
10-29-19, 06:50 PM
#37
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This past Saturday I was playing around with a Super Six Evo at the shop, in fact I was messing with quite a few of them as framesets. Just for giggles I weighed a 51 Super Six Evo frame only, and it was well under 2 pounds. Shazzam! Was really surprised the thing was that light. Also weighed a 54 Synapse carbon frame only and it was just over 2.5 pounds. Not sure 3/4 of a pound will make the bike any faster, as there is so much more to going fast than frame and component weight.
For what it is worth, I am just as fast today at age 60 on my self built laid back jack of all trades bike as I was on my team issued bike when I was 25. The only time I feel the weight is going up hills and accelerating (naturally). Go for comfort and the speed will follow. At 25-30mph aero dynamics will play a role for sure, and in that case reducing frontal exposure is a benefit to the Evo frame as it puts the body lower up front.
For what it is worth, I am just as fast today at age 60 on my self built laid back jack of all trades bike as I was on my team issued bike when I was 25. The only time I feel the weight is going up hills and accelerating (naturally). Go for comfort and the speed will follow. At 25-30mph aero dynamics will play a role for sure, and in that case reducing frontal exposure is a benefit to the Evo frame as it puts the body lower up front.
10-30-19, 09:46 AM
#38
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I've been getting serious about riding this year, and plan to train over the winter with an indoor trainer and I'm working to drop some lbs. I can hang with 18mph group rides and have done 2 centuries this year, but want to join the fast 21-22 mph group rides and do at least 4 centuries next year.
I'm looking to buy a dedicated road bike, preferably carbon that can run true 32mm tires. I already have a Topstone that's great, but I'd like to keep that set up with big tires and a rear rack.
My head is spinning with all the choices out there and I'm 6'5" so no local shops have anything in my size in stock. My Topstone is an XL, with 40.2 cm reach, 120 mm stem, and 64 cm stack. The Supersix is supposed to be a fast, race type road bike and the 62 cm has a 40.6 reach and 63.4 cm stack. That seems pretty close to my Topstone which is supposed to be a more relaxed, endurance geometry.
What would make the Supersix faster? More aero tube shapes and less weight? How much faster would this be vs an endurance bike at the same weight like a Synapse? It seems to me based on the measurements that you could get a similar fit on either, or am I missing something?
I'm looking to buy a dedicated road bike, preferably carbon that can run true 32mm tires. I already have a Topstone that's great, but I'd like to keep that set up with big tires and a rear rack.
My head is spinning with all the choices out there and I'm 6'5" so no local shops have anything in my size in stock. My Topstone is an XL, with 40.2 cm reach, 120 mm stem, and 64 cm stack. The Supersix is supposed to be a fast, race type road bike and the 62 cm has a 40.6 reach and 63.4 cm stack. That seems pretty close to my Topstone which is supposed to be a more relaxed, endurance geometry.
What would make the Supersix faster? More aero tube shapes and less weight? How much faster would this be vs an endurance bike at the same weight like a Synapse? It seems to me based on the measurements that you could get a similar fit on either, or am I missing something?
Even riding the same roads the bike is much much lighter and responds to pedaling inputs make the bike respond much quicker. I love it.
Someone in the thread said this "This. Endurance bikes are designed around comfort. Then race bikes are designed around performance...stiffer, more responsive, quicker handling, etc. So, while overall speed between the too may not differ much, how they feel/get up to that speed can be very different." i would agree with this assessment.
speaking of marginal gains you said, "Well I don't think I'd look good with shaved legs, so I'm looking at my other options" they might not look good but don't underestimate the mental lift of shaved legs while out riding fast.
