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Chain getting longer? Directional chains?

Old 11-23-19, 09:24 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by madpogue
...yeah.... And so....
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Old 11-23-19, 12:22 PM
  #52  
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Why would a C&V person have any interest in Shimano chains? Let them make directional chains if they wish.
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Old 11-23-19, 01:02 PM
  #53  
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I'm glad I found this thread.

Help! Can someone please let me know where I can find a chain of proper directionality for this bike? I don't have a problem with the chain skipping, but no matter which chain I put on it, the bike won't shift at all!



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Old 11-23-19, 08:16 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
Now, about that demeanor you exhibit that tends to make people think you can be fooled.....setting up your mark?
*whistles innocently*

To be honest, my first degree was in Journalism. So I ask questions--lots of questions, usually with a purpose. Sometimes people take that as me not knowing anything about the subject.
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Old 11-24-19, 08:04 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by TriBiker19
He said that if you clean a chain, it gets longer. Something about grease between the links keeping them at the correct distance and cleaning removing the grease. So if you degrease a chain, it will no longer fit to the cassette and crank and will actually wear out the gears quicker.
This is ridiculous. As a chain wears, the distance between the pins increases. Cleaning and relubricating can delay this process.
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Old 11-24-19, 08:06 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by P!N20
I put a chain on backwards once. Spent the whole day riding in reverse.
Ha ha. However, some modern chains are in fact unidirectional - such as the 10 speed Shimano Ultegra chain I have on my JP Weigle. It needs to be mounted with the lettering facing out. Mounting it backwards will degrade shift quality, according to Shimano.
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Old 11-24-19, 12:53 PM
  #57  
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And now there is this.....


It would be possible to put in on inside out and upside down.
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Old 11-25-19, 03:02 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Is this the C&V Subforum?

Perhaps you guys should be excused.

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-CN0001-05-ENG.pdf

Thanks for that! I knew I did read about directional chains, and this is the actual piece I read.

I have always installed chains directionally, but that was due to the old push pins in the chain. When you removed the chain, the link pin stick out on one side, and I always put it back on the same way after cleaning, and Sedis chains lasted forever. I still have a new one, unopened in the box, for when the 1973 Peugeot U-08 eventually needs it.

When I went from a 1973 Fuji (main ride) to a 2016 Bianchi Volpe, I was a bit surprised at some of the "advances" in bike tech. My old "Richard's Bicycle Book," would not cut it, nor would a lot of my tools. Fortunately, the Bianchi came with the original Shimano Instructions for every component of the Tiagra group that was used on the bicycle. I do not know if this was a standard thing or just my dealer. I then downloaded PDFs of every component on the bike, as well as the Shimano Compatibility documents so I could actually read them at a reasonable type size.

As far as the "advances", I am a traditionalist at heart, but STI shifting and especially cassettes are real keepers. To me the STI is like syncromesh gears on an auto transmission. I also like the brifters, but even after 3 years, I still sometimes reach for the downtube shifters. I originally went SPD clipless on the old Fuji, but now after 3 seasons of them on the Bianchi, I am back to toe clips and straps. 40 years of muscle memory has an advantage. I still prefer straight steel frame tubes, and curved fork blades.
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Old 11-25-19, 03:35 PM
  #59  
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For the record, I'm not convinced that cleaning a chain will lengthen it significantly. I merely except the possible part truth as a possibility. The whole idea sounds generally dubious. I might believe a few hundredths. If anyone wants to get empirical and measure before and after a chain cleaning, I'd be curious as to the actual figures. I'm not sure this experiment would be possible for me because I don't let my chains get very dirty or worn out. OTOH if someone is fixing up some beat up craigslist find with a nice crusty chain, it'd be easy to check.

FWIW the latest Shimano Ultegra 11S chain comes with a quicklink instead of the special pin. I never liked the idea of a special pin. Quick links OTOH frankly are very handy. IMO and FWIW the new Shimano chains are really excellent. (This coming from someone that hated Shimano chains for decades. )
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Old 11-25-19, 04:35 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by dddd
I'm thinking that since the rollers rotate, there won't be any worn vs. un-worn surfaces.

And, as the front and rear sprockets each force the rollers in roughly opposite directions, reversing the direction of the chain might have next to no effect.
Point 1, no, its the pins that don't rotate that wear.

Point 2, Thinking about it, you make a good point.
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Old 11-25-19, 04:38 PM
  #61  
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I have a sram chain and the 'master link is two identical plate and pin. Both have an arrow showing directionality. But it one if facing forward, the other facing backward.
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Old 11-25-19, 06:32 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
For the record, I'm not convinced that cleaning a chain will lengthen it significantly. I merely except the possible part truth as a possibility. The whole idea sounds generally dubious. I might believe a few hundredths. If anyone wants to get empirical and measure before and after a chain cleaning, I'd be curious as to the actual figures. I'm not sure this experiment would be possible for me because I don't let my chains get very dirty or worn out. OTOH if someone is fixing up some beat up craigslist find with a nice crusty chain, it'd be easy to check
Have you ever had a cassette get so full of weeds the chain skipped? It happens to me all the time here in Tampa. Clear all the weeds out it works fine. Same concept, when all the cruds cleaned away the chain sits and engages the teeth differently. Again, if your drivetrains borderline, cleaning may send it over the edge.

I happen to have a dirty chain laying around, if I get overly bored tomorrow maybe I'll measure, clean and re-measure. I also have 3 different chain measuring tools.
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Old 11-25-19, 07:02 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman
What's the story of you choosing the nds -- I mean, the left side -- for the drivetrain?
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Old 11-26-19, 12:22 AM
  #64  
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Overcleaner or not

As an oldskool guy used to 5 n 6 speed freewheels and nice campy crank sets i always kept the chain free of dirt.
My current singlespeed uses wolf alloy eliptical ss ring and sprocket with an x11 sram chain. I use brakeclean to blow dirt into a rag, dry the chain and re-oil with purple extreme n wipe excess off the outer plates. Imho, it keeps the alloy teeth from grinding down and the chain stays tight. Am I doing this wrong considering i ride both on and off road on sandy trails n roads in S Florida?
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Old 11-26-19, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
What's the story of you choosing the nds -- I mean, the left side -- for the drivetrain?
You can't pin that monstrosity on me - the bike is shown as found. The parts have since been redistributed for more conventional builds. It did work Ok for me while I rode it, frame was too small, so it probably was only about 50-60 miles or so,
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Old 11-26-19, 03:28 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by TriBiker19
And that was the oddest part--he literally illustrated ... "it's going to be this long," he said, holding his fingers ... about four inches from the head, then he said, "you clean it and it gets this long" and he moved the finger from 4" to 1.5" from the head.

I'm thinking...so every time you get it dirty, you need to replace? Well that's a pain in the ass. ... And can you clean the cassette or does that get bigger, too?
Edited for hilarity.

If it's any consolation, even most guys roll their eyes at "those guys": the LBS mansplainers and mamil MUPpet warriors. Every group ride with the local fast club, there's always that one guy who's fast... for a middle aged dude. And fast with wisecracks about the wimmins because he's still bitter over his latest breakup. I have to remind myself that it's difficult to breathe properly through clenched teeth and to see the road with rolled eyes.

And the local pro and serious amateur women racers here would bury us all on any semi-serious climb.




Shrinkage. The problem is real.
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Old 11-26-19, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim
Have you ever had a cassette get so full of weeds the chain skipped? It happens to me all the time here in Tampa. Clear all the weeds out it works fine. Same concept, when all the cruds cleaned away the chain sits and engages the teeth differently. Again, if your drivetrains borderline, cleaning may send it over the edge.

I happen to have a dirty chain laying around, if I get overly bored tomorrow maybe I'll measure, clean and re-measure. I also have 3 different chain measuring tools.
Yup! Weeds. Plastic bags. Not kidding. A couple of Novembers ago I was skeedaddling home from the LBS trying to beat a fast approaching storm. In an hour the temperature dropped 30 degrees. Wind was steady 20 mph with gusts to 40. Fortunately I had only a mile to get home. I reach the only tricky bit of that short commute, a wide boulevard with median divider. No traffic either direction, unusual for that time of afternoon. I dart across the six lanes and KA-CHUG! A plastic grocery store bag blew into the rear derailleur, chain and freewheel. All I could do was coast the rest of the way. Fortunately, no traffic. Had to cut it out with a pocket knife and my fingers were already getting numb (the temp had dropped from the 60s to 30s in minutes).

Weirdest chain/drivetrain quirk I've experienced was a few weeks after trying White Lightning Easy Lube, a liquefied wax in what smells like naptha. I've been using waxed chains on my road bikes for a couple of years so I figured it might be easier than the crock pot, at least for touchup lubes between dipping in the crock pot of hot wax.

But after a couple of weeks the bike felt sluggish. Then the shifting problems began. And the chain was filthy, as grimy as chains usually get with wet oil lubes.

I removed the chain and rear wheel and discovered big clumps of grimy black goo mixed with semi-solid wax. Unlike hot dipped chains in plain Gulf wax/paraffin, the liquid wax lubes don't dry hard. The excess doesn't flake off, leaving a clean drivetrain. Nope, the residue sticks like snot and buggers up the spaces between the cogs and chain links.

Sort of the worst of both wax and oil.

I can avoid this by removing the chain to apply Easy Lube off the bike, but that defeats the advantages of a squirt bottle of liquid wax. Might as well just go back to using the crock pot.
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Old 11-27-19, 09:03 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
The area where the pins roll is where chain "lengthen" with use, but it's because the pins wear, not because lubricant gets forced out.

.......
Attached is a picture of a new chain, and a chain ridden for 20 years (actually ridden regularly, not just left to sit). These chains have the same number of links. Feel free to draw your own conclusions on chain stretch. Yes, the other end of the chains are lined up. My dad didn't realize chains wore out, so he never replaced it. The bike constantly skipped gears which lead to a new drivetrain.
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Old 11-27-19, 06:57 PM
  #69  
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69 posts for this subject.

I need to go look in the mirror and ask myself serious questions.

Right after I check my chains.
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Old 11-27-19, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim
I happen to have a dirty chain laying around, if I get overly bored tomorrow maybe I'll measure, clean and re-measure. I also have 3 different chain measuring tools.
Just drink, man, just drink.
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Old 11-28-19, 06:29 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by canklecat
Edited for hilarity.

If it's any consolation, even most guys roll their eyes at "those guys": the LBS mansplainers and mamil MUPpet warriors. Every group ride with the local fast club, there's always that one guy who's fast... for a middle aged dude. And fast with wisecracks about the wimmins because he's still bitter over his latest breakup.
Little does he know that those types of wisecracks are part of the reason he had a breakup. And possibly because he was telling her bull**** about cleaning chains making them longer.
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Old 11-28-19, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
I actually kept a small packet of Grey Poupon in a jersey pocket for Thunder Ridge, where they hand out regular mustard packets for cramping.

Just so I could pull it out and say it.
But of course. At least since Wayne's World. 😁😎😁
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Old 12-01-19, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Several years ago, I had a Greenpeace volunteer come to my house canvassing for donations. I politely refused, explaining that we had already donated an allocated amount of our discretionary income to our preferred charities. I attempted to close the door but she held it open and became very aggressive, trying to lay an environmental guilt trip on me. Noticing a strange automobile sitting at the curb, I inquired whether it was hers and she said "Yes, what's that got to do with anything?" I was getting PO'd and replied,"Well, I guess I'm doing a lot more for the environment than you are because I don't own a car or even have driver's license. I walk or bicycle everywhere. If you truly cared about the environment as much as you say you do, you'd get rid of that monstrosity and do the same!" Her jaw dropped faster than I could slam the door in her face.
Magnificent!

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