turbo1889

Location = 4 way stop intersection (approx. N/S/E/W layout)

Situation = 1 @ Cager approaching intersection from South + 1 @ Cyclist (me) approaching intersection from East




In chronological order:

----- Cager reaches the intersection and comes to a stop at the stop sign I am still about 30 feet (two cager lengths) from my stop line and I am still rolling.
----- I realize the cager made the intersection first and thus legally has right of way so I come to a complete stop (takes about 2 sec.) at my stop line.
----- Both me and the cager are both stopped at the intersection.
----- I give it another two count waiting for the cager to start going through the intersection.
----- The cager still hasn't moved so I do my standard take a long slow drink from the water bottle act which almost always ends this kind of 4-way stop stand off.
----- The cager still doesn't move, so I put the water bottle back and wave the cager through with a hand motion.
----- The cager lifts a finger on one of her hands on the steering wheel (don't know which finger but in hind sight I have my suspicions) and then shifts her car into reverse and starts backing up away from the intersection.
----- I have never before in years of on-roadway in traffic riding seen a cager do that before during a 4-way stop stand off so I just stare with an extremely puzzled look on my face.
----- She continues backing up slowly away from the intersection so I figure I have done all I can to do the right thing and it looks very obvious that she absolutely insists that I go through first, which I am hesitant to do because legally I'm in the wrong if there is a collision since technically I'm supposed to yield to her since she got to the intersection first.
----- So I visibly shrug my shoulders and start to proceed into the intersection, she initially continues to slowly back up as I enter the intersection going East to West straight through.
----- Once I have gotten out into the intersection she rams her car into forward gear and rams on the gas complete with roaring engine and comes right at me (South to North) while I'm right in the intersection.
----- I do a desperate tight hard right partial U-turn trying to get back out of the intersection and up onto the side walk desperately hoping to get on the other side of the street light pole on the corner desperately hoping that it will stop her car if I can reach it in time.
----- At the last micro-second with my heart beating like crazy and having not yet reached my objective safe point and still on the roadway she swerves around me and roars on past.



She set me up !!! Long story short I still recommend using the water bottle trick since in my experience it has ended 95+% of those obnoxious 4-way stop stand offs in a positive manner.

But if you have a Cager back up on you backing away from the intersection in a 4-way stop stand off. HEADS UP they might be backing up to get a good run at you !!! Can't be sure that every cager that backs up on you is setting you up to make a run at you like she did to me since I'm only 1-for-1 so far but since aggressive cagers seem to have similar patterns of behavior I thought I should give a heads up shout out.

Bikepacker67

What a kant.

turbo1889

Excuse my ignorance since as you can probably tell by my post count but I don't live my life on forums and only drop in now and again.

What is a "kant" ? I am unfamiliar with that term (or is it an acronym?).

SlowNeasy

I would say if a person stops at a stop sign first and then after a reasonable time either can't or won't proceed through the intersection. The other driver waiting won't be in the wrong for going ahead. I think it would be unreasonable to expext another moterist or Biker to wait while the first car does her nails reads the paper.
Had this been on camera or witnessed by an officer she could have been charged with reckless driving , or possibley attempted homicide.
But you are right in that when people start acting really strange WE better take note. I saw one on youtube where a bike camera caught a car intentionally running down two bicyclers.
It's a scary old world ain't it.
Be safe.
Dave.

GraysonPeddie

Don't worry about your post count.

Could it be this? https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Kant

Or is it immanuel?

I wonder how many bike forum members have heard of this word before?

turbo1889

Agreed, and when the cager stubbornly insists that I go first on a 4-way stop stand off, I will because after all it isn't worth doing a half hour stare down or something crazy like that. Usually, if the water bottle trick followed by a wave through doesn't do the trick I will go through (the water bottle trick being more effective and thus done first). Have had a few cagers turn off their engines before on a 4-way stand off before and I can certainly take that clue. First one I had shift into reverse and back up though, and also the only one so far to make a run at me where I could be absolutely sure it was deliberate and not a simple case of both of us deciding not to wait any longer for the other guy at the same time.

Scary as heck, and from now on if they back up on me I'm going to head straight off the road and behind the sturdiest barrier immediately available. Figured I should spread the word about that particular behavior pattern being a very big warning sign.

And of course I did need to vent as well.

turbo1889

If it is I believe it would be a reference either to me or my post and not to the cage driver. Not sure if it is meant in a good way or neutral or bad way. Either way if that is what he meant then he is much more of a soft science academic then I ever will be (NOT an insult, "hard science" = math, physics, chemistry, etc . . . "soft science" = philosophy, literature, art, etc . . .)

enigmaT120

To the OP: Was anybody else around? I wonder if she had it planned out. Kill you and say you ran the stop. But you did say she swerved at the last minute. That's creepy.

I think it's obvious what the guy (don't think a woman would use the term) meant by "Kant." A deliberate misspelling, to mislead the forum's censors, of a crude insulting term for a woman.

turbo1889

Yes, it could be that. Would make sense but to a certain extent so does the link to the German guy who studied psycho patterns named "Kant". As for a woman not using the term . . . mine has used it a time or two in reference to another woman she doesn't like so its not outside the realm of possible.

As to anyone else around; not that I noticed but I was a little busy. Unfortionatly didn't get the plate either.

E.S.

Try this after the water bottle.

turbo1889

Thanks E.S. I needed that, actually made me chuckle out loud although I suspect I wouldn't look near as cute as that cat doing that.

CB HI

You really should have gotten her plate # and reported her to the police for assault and terroristic threatening.

turbo1889

I agree, but have you ever tried to or even thought to read the plate on a cage tearing towards you with a roaring engine while at the same time pedaling for your life and/or as it streaks away. I've gotten the plates and turned in a few cage drivers who tried to force me off the road by pulling a side-swipe stunt on me and one car load of juvenile punks where one of them stuck his arm out the passenger window and took a swing at the back side of my head while they passed me but in all those cases it was when traffic flow and or a red light up ahead with cars stopped in front of them that prevented the offending cagers from getting too far away and/or allowing me to catch up with them to get their plate. So far I have never been able to get the plate in the heat of the moment when things are going down. More important things always seem to take precedence, quite frankly I don't know how the cops are able to do it, must be the training.

I've thought about getting a camera rig but so far I've resisted that step, something about rigging my bike as a rolling surveillance platform like some big brother drone just twists me the wrong way.

dynodonn 

It doesn't bother me one bit........law enforcement, taxi cabs, banks, stores, and the like use them, and if nothing happens, one could just erase the video at the end of the day. A couple of days ago, I was able to report a motorist (for harassment) with the info gathered by my cams, and with my cams operating at 30 frames per second of high quality 1080p HD, speed is far less an ally to motorists than it used to be.

jbiddenback

Not cool. Not really surprising either, unfortunately.

I do wonder why the OP hadn't already crossed the intersection when the motor vehicle driver arrived, and why the plate number wasn't taken from the rear plate.

asmac

You're kidding, right? Or is the Patriot Act broader than I knew?

unterhausen

he got there after the motorist and she waited for him

the term "terroristic" pre-dates its current meaning, but in this case it just means it's illegal to scare someone by threatening to kill them

asmac

The current meaning is the current meaning. The term has lots of baggage and using it in this case is a bit much.

"Threatening death/bodily harm" or "attempted murder" seem more applicable.

Anyhow, she seems like a nutcase who is using a car instead of a gun. It's way beyond bullying or bad behaviour.

EsoxLucius

+1
Once she started backing up it would have occurred to me at that point to get her license number. That action was exhibiting a moving traffic violation and suspect or impaired judgement.

dynodonn 

The OP was in the process of turning around and trying to avoid a collision, plus I've tried numerous times to get a motorist's vehicle license number, while they are traveling at a substantial speed, and it is not easy as some make it out to be.

BF member degnaw has a great video of a motorist doing a very high speed head on incident with him, and with a quick turn of his head/helmet cam, he was able to garner a clear shot of the motorist's rear vehicle license number that was only visible in the video by viewing frame by frame.

Digital_Cowboy

The only problem is that there are some states, such as Florida that only have a rear license plate. And if the car is backing away it would be impossible to get the license plate number. I'm not saying that that is the case where the OP lives, just trying to point out why it might not be practical to get the license plate number.

unterhausen

in this case it's a term of art. CB HI didn't make it up, it's in the statute books in a number of states, and these laws were intended to apply in cases like this. I agree that "terrorism" is generally overused, but not in this case.

CB HI

Don't over react, we are not talking middle east type terrorist here. Hawaii and some other states likely have laws for which the term is used for any type of threat intended to alarm a person or threaten a person.

The words "next time I will run you over" or pulling up behind a cyclist and jumping the car forward while revving the engine could be prosecuted as "terroristic threatening".

In Toronto, maybe they call it 'alarming threatening'.

CB HI

This is the easiest method for getting the plate #. When a motorist starts acting odd, honking or tail gating, that is the point a get their plate # and remember it until they are gone.

That is how I got a hit and run driver prosecuted. It really is not that hard to read the number of a tailgater with a cycling mirror.

The states that do not require a front plate are a problem. I never understood that mind set.

Ranko Kohime

Terrorism refers to crimes committed against civilians for political purposes. While this incident would certainly induce terrror, terrorism it is not. (As far as we know)