DnvrFox

Sigh!

In my other life, I have been fighting bloated bureaucracies who have figured out how to pay themselves high salaries at the expense of individuals with disabilities. I am proud that I have made quite a stir in the State of Colorado. Not famous, but infamous. How does $312,000 sound for salary and benefits for a 501c3 Executive Director serving in a state with a waiting list of 3,746 adults with profound disabilities (that is my spread sheet and web page, BTW)? I have also been spending a lot of time supporting the wife with her knee replacement (which is going quite well).

So, I have not paid much attention to this old 50+ forum lately.

But, what is happening in the 50+ forum does tie in with what is happening in some of our state 501c3 organizations.

It all relates to growth and the concurrent inevitable increase in bureaucracy. As organizations get larger, bureaucracy inevitably gets more stifling and pervasive. Sadly, we are seeing that here in the 50+ forum and in BFN in general.

Originally started primarily to encourage those in their 50's to reenter the world of exercise and bicycling, the 50+ has morphed markedly, until now we are having concerns about political correctness and the like.

Quote:

Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Oh me, oh my!

So sad.

DnvrFox

Anyone have a server with software?

Or, we could consider a move to Yahoo Groups or Google Groups?

Thoughts?

We already have a backup forum established with a number of members.

https://groups.google.com/group/BFN50-Backup

We could do the 50+ stuff there, and you could participate in the BFN forum as you so desire

Blackberry

I just applied to the Google group, and will check it out when (if?) it is approved. Maybe that's the answer that will make everybody happy enough, but it does seem a shame that things have gone down like this.

DnvrFox

I approved your membership. I wonder should I change it from needing approval? I don't want to be in the "approval" business. OTOH, I don't want a bunch of spam, etc.

Any thoughts?

NOS88

With all due respect (and I have a great deal for you Dnvr) I think you're over reacting. While the last few days have been painful for many, it is not the end of the world. I greatly appreciate this forum and the comments made by many (including some of those who seem the most upset right now). Yet, I find some truth or wisdom in what the moderators have done. When I first started posting in this forum I experienced a level of discomfort... not feeling that I belonged. There were, and still are, those with stronger voices than others. These were the people who tended to direct the overall flow of the forum with the frequency of their posts and the banter (often fun, light-hearted, etc.). I had to (for example)figure out what was up with blueberry pie, what the boundaries were in terms of what was going to turn people off from allowing my voice to be heard. This is the way it is with all groups I've ever observed.... those who are "in" and those who are not. I think what we have now is normal and not at all wrong... it's the way things work in a less than perfect world.

In the short time I've been a member I've seen other periods where things got rough. If you remember back a few months there was a ripple in the forum's smooth flow over folks having different ideas regarding the French. We had some people leave then (and at least one return). In some ways, when you get to know some of the regular personalities it becomes easy to connect with them in ways that may feel exclusionary to others. I think this has happened here with the Diegos.... It was just a way to good naturedly communicate with "friends". And while it seemed harmless to many of us, it was against the rules. I applaud the moderators for taking the bull by the horns on this one. Can you imagine a situation like the Diegos where the intent was not to communicate with friends but, rather, to attack and hurt? The moderators really had not choice with this.

Does the action of the moderators ruffle a few feathers? Yeah it does. I found myself disappointed with the "death of the Diegos" because it cuts off a way to communicate with friends. But to leave the forum, suggest it end, etc. that's like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

What makes this particular forum so unique is that you've got people with over 50 years of experience talking about cycling stuff and having the ability to do so with the knowledge that cycling (like most passions) is not limited to rigid boundaries. Hence, we also talk about other things. Yet, we've been able to pull ourselves back on topic.... for the most part. I think it is possible to have a mixture of strictly "on topic" stuff and the banter that is inclusive of other parts of who we are. I do not think this is possible without having to self-correct every now and again, and if we don't do it, the moderators will. I would also suggest that it would be foolish of me to believe that there won't be times when the moderators do need to step in. While I like to think of myself as mature, I know that I'm not perfect. Yet, at 50+ years of age, I hate others correcting me. I can't help but wonder how much of this has played into the dynamics of recent days.

I say, let's all take a deep breath (and perhaps a short break, if needed) and get back to the business of keeping this unique forum one of the best I've ever had the honor of being able to participate in.

DnvrFox

OK, makes sense to me. We always have an option of moving.

I just haven't been participating much, and missed all of the moderators closing threads, etc.

So, maybe take a deep breath and see what happens.

I remember back to the days of Koffee Brown, where A RULE IS A RULE! and shall NEVER be violated.

Hopefully, they are "guidelines" and not "rules," with some flexibility and interpretation built in??

DnvrFox

I'm getting several requests to join the Google Group. I have changed it from "needing approval" to "open membership," at least for a bit so that I don't go crazy.

I would suggest that you might want to join in case things don't settle down here a bit. We currently have 42 members there.

https://groups.google.com/group/BFN50-Backup

jab1362

count me in

BlazingPedals

Dnvr, I think you'll find that eventually you'll need to make membership by approval only. The spammers just never stop, and they see forums as a great resource. They have bots that will subscribe users at a rate that would astound you! The approval process stops them cold - it's just not worth their time to request approval to a 150-member list when they need 15,000,000 new victims every day!

big john

Something very much like this happened in the Southern California forum, with members leaving and starting a Yahoo users group. That has settled down and most have returned, and the moderators have given a little, as well. People feel wronged, I guess, but there is still fun and good information in these forums. I've enjoyed the 50+ forum and DG and Blackberry in particular and hate to see anyone leave with a bad feeling. Can't we all just get along?

Little Darwin

I won't be signing up for the alternative group right away because I don't need another place to kill time.

However, I may be there if things here degrade to a point where it is necessary for my enjoyment.

As I was giving a moment's thought to what I would say here to be supportive of your past (and current) efforts, while expressing what I think needs to be said I decided that I just want to say that this has been a very supportive and fun forum based in large parts on the efforts of the people who seem the most upset with the recent events. Thanks to all of you for blazing the trail to this point... the pioneers.

However a cycling analogy came to mind...

A little bump in the road might cause a cyclist to crash... but it is most likely to cause a crash if the rider over-reacts.

In 10 days I am official, and I hope to see most of you here. Maybe scraped up, or talking about how we almost went down... hopefully just talking about the joys and trials of the journey that usually happens here.

DnvrFox

Thanks - Perhaps we could have a co moderator to help with the approvals?

staehpj1

I gotta say that I think you guys are grossly over-reacting. Is it really so terrible to expect folks to follow the rules, and generally stay mostly on topic?

centexwoody 

no...

Blackberry

Well, I've gone through the posts from the entire month, and you know, that's pretty much what happens with well over 95 percent of the posts. Really take a look.

stonecrd

Isn't this, 'I'm going to take my ball and go home'. I enjoy the 50+ subforum but I also participate in and certainly read many of the other posts in the other subforums. I would certainly miss many of the posts by those of you now wanting to leave but in the end I would stay here because I am interested in cycling and not just 50+ cycling.

ollo_ollo

I was surprised to see all the grousing & people leaving. This forum has been a welcome stop for me & it will remain so. Lately I browse the Commuter, C&V, Road & over 50 somewhat less frequently due to caring for my spouse & dealing with local bureaucracies in Oregon as I begin to build a new home, and hopefully this forum will still be around for a long time but I will miss those who left. Don

bobkat

I don't know what the big deal is, but I sure agree with some of the analogies. "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" "overreacting" "take my ball and go home" etc. Maybe also "cutting off your nose to spite your face!"
Like it or not, the people who own the site make the rules. Follow them or go elsewhere, I guess. Still, looking and remembering back all the threads and posts, I still can't understand what the big deal is? Sure, I enjoyed the Diegos and was a bit surprised to see them taken off, but then I don't own the website or make the rules.

Bud Bent

I'm with the moderators on this one, and not leaving.

centexwoody 

+ 1

Artkansas 

So what exactly are the issues? Too many Diegos? an old boys club?

I hate when spats flare up and suddenly a bunch of people are running away. I get that there are a lot of agitated people, but can't get a feel for what the fuss is about.

Maybe it would help to list out exactly what the problems are and then we can come to a solution or compromise.

Coyote!

One old dog's perspective. Yeah, we deviate from cycling and fitness as it relates to our demographic. We're of an age that our lives are just too abundant to shoehorn into a human contrivance as narrow as a sub-forum. Our exhuberance just slops over and I say Thank the Glories for such as we are. Coloring inside the lines, staying on topic, being safe little mushrooms is for the small of imagination not for the crowd I meet here most days.

I come to BF to learn about cycling. . .whilst I'm in the neighborhood I pop by BF50+ 'cause you folks are interesting, lively, experienced, funny, and my contemporaries. This uproar is nothing but a dynamic most groups go through periodically.

>>> Rest in Peace

If BF50+ tanks, I'll still visit BF every day but I'll be denied one of life's small joys.

scottogo

Good 'n posty. Thanks.

BluesDawg

No, I think we are past that stage by now. It's time to move on. I'm going to do something mature like go play in the mud on my MTB tomorrow

bigbossman 

Hey.... are you a pirate? How come I never see you at any of the meetings?