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Why did Titanium not take off amongst Pros?

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Why did Titanium not take off amongst Pros?

Old 08-16-19, 01:58 PM
  #26  
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People notice a titanium frame because they know you spent a lot of money on it. That doesn't mean they want one. Middle aged guys who are serious cyclists but not that fast like them because they last a long time, and they can build them with a comfortable geometry, and S&S couplers. At least that's why I have one.
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Old 08-16-19, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Titanium is expensive and requires specialized skills to work with. Carbon fiber is a much cheaper, lighter, and more versatile material.
cost to the end-user of either material frame can be about the same (eg. Lynskey road Ti framesets start about $1,250), but the important part is that there's much much more room for mark-up available to the manufacturer with CF. Which is of course why Trek/Spesh etc. offer nothing in this material, as it would compete with their higher profit CF lineup.
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Old 08-16-19, 02:19 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Same here. I am wearing shorts in the office.
Shorts, not bibs??
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Old 08-16-19, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Shorts, not bibs??
Khaki NOT BIBS.
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Old 08-16-19, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Banzai View Post
lust for a new steel roadie
I'm starting to.

It feels really weird.


-Tim-
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Old 08-16-19, 02:55 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Many of those pros had them painted to look like the steel frameset from their team's sponser, but they were usually made by Merlin or Litespeed.
We have a winner! At one time, it was relatively rare for a pro rider's frameset to actually be manufactured by the brand whose logo was painted on the bike. And some of those disguised custom framesets were made of titanium. (Among others, Greg Lemond and Lance Armstrong are reputed to have ridden disguised Litespeeds in the TdF. It was once rumored that "Bianchi" was Italian for "Litespeed in drag".)

Last edited by FlashBazbo; 08-16-19 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:32 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
People notice a titanium frame because they know you spent a lot of money on it. Middle aged guys who are serious cyclists but not that fast like them because they last a long time, and they can build them with a comfortable geometry, and S&S couplers. At least that's why I have one.
In 1997 I had my choice of titanium (Litespeed), carbon fiber (Look), or steel (various) for about the same price.

I opted for titanium with no paint to chip. My titanium frame still looks better after 22 years than my last steel frame did 8.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 08-16-19 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:44 PM
  #33  
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I am the odd guy out. I am not a pro rider or ever were even close. I am not a doctor, dentist, or even a lawyer but wow I like my titanium Habanero. It weighs about 1 pound more than my Wilier but I could swap wheels and it would be close. It rides smoother and livelier than the CF and much, much quieter. That is the real thing I notice. My Ti makes no sound at all and CF bikes tend to make much more racket over bumps and bumpy roads.

I think it is the cleric in me...…….we deacons might need to preach a bit so noise gets in the way during a ride. But on the serious side Ti can be had at a really good price now I think, look at Lynskey.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:52 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
I am the odd guy out. I am not a pro rider or ever were even close. I am not a doctor, dentist, or even a lawyer but wow I like my titanium Habanero. It weighs about 1 pound more than my Wilier but I could swap wheels and it would be close. It rides smoother and livelier than the CF and much, much quieter. That is the real thing I notice. My Ti makes no sound at all and CF bikes tend to make much more racket over bumps and bumpy roads.

I think it is the cleric in me...…….we deacons might need to preach a bit so noise gets in the way during a ride. But on the serious side Ti can be had at a really good price now I think, look at Lynskey.
I notice that my titanium Veritas is also very quiet. It makes riding the ruts by the white line much more tolerable.
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Old 08-16-19, 07:37 PM
  #35  
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Does this mean that Ti bikes do not have buzzy rear hubs. People keep talking about how quiet they are.
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Old 08-16-19, 09:54 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Does this mean that Ti bikes do not have buzzy rear hubs. People keep talking about how quiet they are.
They have to be quiet because the sonic waves from a noisy hub will crack the titanium welds. The solution is to always keep pedalling of course. The numerous reports of Ti failures are due to the lazy riders freewheeling.
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Old 08-17-19, 07:38 AM
  #37  
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Simple answer is in this question: When did pros get to choose what they ride.
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Old 08-17-19, 08:56 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
None of them are Cervelos, however, so I think they're going to yank his license.
You have to be a dev at Microsoft to own a Cervelo.
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Old 08-17-19, 08:59 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Same here. I am wearing shorts in the office.
I've worn bib shorts to meetings. But I work from home and we do Skype meetings. (Actually Teams, basically the same thing.)
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Old 08-17-19, 10:10 AM
  #40  
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Met an intramural Branch Chief from the National Cancer Institute on my ride this morning. Yep...
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Old 08-18-19, 01:56 AM
  #41  
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I ride a Merlin from about 2001. Massachusetts Merlin before Litespeed bought them. 18 years later it looks as good as it did new. Very comfortable and no, I am not a doctor or lawyer. You can buy a new Lynskey for a lot less than a better carbon frame. I also own and ride a carbon Orbea Orca. The Orca is a little bit lighter and feels a little bit stiffer but on the same 35 mile course, both will give me about the same ride time. I am not racing them. You don't have to spend the money on a Moots to have a nice titanium frameset.
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Old 08-18-19, 06:06 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Fox Farm View Post
I ride a Merlin from about 2001. Massachusetts Merlin before Litespeed bought them.
FYI.. 2001 Merlins were the first model year from the Chattanooga-relocated company that bought them (done in 2000 by American Bicycle Group, nee JHK Investments). Same parent company owner of Litespeed. fwiw, from 1998-2000, Merlin was owned by Saucony (the running shoe company).
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Old 08-18-19, 06:47 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Simple answer is in this question: When did pros get to choose what they ride.
Never, but the ads always make it look as if they do. And I guess if you won the TDF last year and are looking for a new team, there's some choice involved, but I doubt which frame material and component groups a given team rides would carry much weight in deciding which team to ride for.

The only exception would be when a rider has a custom frame built up, and then painted in his team colors to make it look like the bikes frames the rest of the team rides. But you'll never see that rider making a big deal of the fact, fans aren't supposed to notice things like that.
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Old 08-18-19, 10:23 AM
  #44  
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Ti starts out expensive...

Top Titanium Producing Countries in order:

1. China
2. Russia
3. Japan
4. Kazakhstan
5. Ukraine
6. India
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Old 08-18-19, 11:42 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123 View Post
Plus, it’s not a good business model to make bikes that “last forever”, as titanium seems to do.
So the CF people learned from their mistakes and took the exact opposite approach.
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Old 08-18-19, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Does this mean that Ti bikes do not have buzzy rear hubs. People keep talking about how quiet they are.
Originally Posted by znomit View Post
They have to be quiet because the sonic waves from a noisy hub will crack the titanium welds. The solution is to always keep pedalling of course. The numerous reports of Ti failures are due to the lazy riders freewheeling.
Give it a rest already. Every thread does not have to be a troll thread.

When I say a quiet ride what I am referring to is more of the plush, muted ride that titanium frames offer. I never mentioned anything about a noisy freehub. I ride old school Dura Ace 7700 hubs on my titanium Veritas and they have a pretty silent freewheeling ratchet sound. But again, I was referring to a ride characteristic of a titanium frame in contrast to, say - a very stiff oversized aluminum frame.
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Old 08-18-19, 11:51 AM
  #47  
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The riders at the very top do have a choice on what they ride. The rest just have to follow along. Specialized openly stated that would do whatever it takes ($$) to keep Sagan riding their bikes after Saxo Bank folded. I have also heard that the Trek frames in Lance’s size were a bit oddball because they were designed to fit Lance. I remember an interview with Michael Jordan where he was asked if he really liked Air Jordans. He said that Nike designs them to his exact specifications, so what’s not to like?

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Old 08-18-19, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
FYI.. 2001 Merlins were the first model year from the Chattanooga-relocated company that bought them (done in 2000 by American Bicycle Group, nee JHK Investments). Same parent company owner of Litespeed. fwiw, from 1998-2000, Merlin was owned by Saucony (the running shoe company).
Good history summary. The frame is actually a 2000 model and not one of the ABG frames, but the Saucony (we called them Massachusetts Merlins) frames.
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Old 08-18-19, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
When did pros get to choose what they ride.
BITD, the top pros could insist on a frame from a custom builder, but it would be re-badged to look like the sponsor's bike. Masis, De Rosas, etc. would be painted and decaled as Peugeots, Gitanes, etc. whoever the team sponsor was.

Now the pros ride off the shelf frames from their sponsor.
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Old 08-19-19, 10:26 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You have to be a dev at Microsoft to own a Cervelo.
Can confirm. At least two devs/engineers at my location in Sunnyvale commute on Cervelo. I slum it with my 16 year old Ti or even my Trek Gravel bike.

Originally Posted by brianmcg123 View Post
Plus, it’s not a good business model to make bikes that “last forever”, as titanium seems to do.
Can also confirm based on the fact that my 16 year old Ti with updated components, carbon fork w/disc still has an incredible ride. Pretty sure that it wouldn't be a great idea to ride a carbon bike from the same year with the same mileage as my Ti.

Last edited by SCTinkering; 08-19-19 at 10:31 AM.
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