brooklyn_bike

hello C&V i've never had a frame failure in the decades of riding classic lugged steel frames but i have a Medici Gran Turismo i built up and rode for a year. it was a wonderful riding swift reynolds 531 sport tourer. started making a clinking / creaking sound when out of the saddle . turns out there's a crack at the end of the lower lug on the downtube. **any frame builders / frame repairers want to give opinions on repair options for this frame ?** my opinion is the frame is toast or you'd possibly have to torch the headtube lug and bottom bracket lug and replace the downtube .

found an article in the 1993 bridgestone catalog describing this exact stress point "common type of frame failure occurs on the downtube near the end of the lower head lug. if the point of the lug is too sharp, it doesn't flex with the tube but bites into the tube like a can opener"

repechage

There has been some odd crimping just beyond the lug, Grant does note that is a stress riser there and indeed there is but those multiple marks about the tube have me really wondering.

I don’t think Medicis were pinned.

lugs are investment cast so sweating out the tube should be containable.

replacing the tube is quite possible, now the economics… probably not reasonable if you want a restoration of the original paint and graphics.

these bikes are about to be recognized and past their scandalous history but it has been that was for years

brooklyn_bike

you're right there are some odd spaced out marks the size of dots in-between the crack and shift cable stops - wonder if something was clamped there in the past that added to the frame failure . i don't think repair would be worth the cost. i got the entire bike for just over 200.00 but it's a shame : it was a terrific riding bike hand built by some of the guys from california masi

i heard from another medici owner of a pro strada that failed in the same spot. makes me wonder how many medicis stress crack in that location. i checked all my other similar era steel bikes and they all had a rounded lower lug to prevent this type of damage. frame builders must've realized at some point this was a weak spot

i noticed the guy who wrote that bridgestone article was non other than gary klein of Klein bicycles

John E

Even for frames that have never been in a front end collision, this is an extremely common failure point, because of the high stresses involved. Another is the seat-tube-to-BB-shell juncture (been there ... done that with a 1971 Nishiki Competition, after 20 years and about 40K miles). You are correct in your economic analysis, which is why I scrapped the Nishiki (and the Peugeot UO-8 that broke at the chainstay, between the tire and chainring clearance dimples).

mhespenheide 

For the West Coast, I've heard good things about repairs from Dale Saso in San Jose, Andy Gilmour in Tucson, Erik Billings in Alameda CA, and Ed Litton (if you're in absolutely no hurry). I'm sure Ti Cycles in Portland could handle it, too.

It won't be cheap, considering the repair, the cost of a paint job afterwards, plus disassembly and reassembly, but it can be done.

repechage

the Dave Tesch S-22 solution came to mind…. Cut the tube near the BB and lower head lug and Combo bilaminate/fillet braze an oversized downtube in place, quickest, beefier, a tribute to stiffness and Dave.
the lateral stiffness should be much improved.

somepetalhead

Damn... just commented on your last post about the bike too!!! what a beaut thats passed. What brakes were you running that allowed for 700 38? and did you use the same brakes on the 650b? thanks

gugie 

There's a nickname for those pointy lugs.

Can opener.

brooklyn_bike

the bike came with tektro R539s and 700x38s altho my calipers read 35mm actual tire width mounted on the original 700c Fir rims. it was still awfully tight tolerances . so i switched to tektro R559s for 650b conversion

Manny66 

Having someone repair that and repaint it would not be cost effective.

brooklyn_bike

frame and fork got donated to local bike co-op. fork was still good : chrome crown and reynolds 531. i moved overseas so i ended up selling / donating much of my bike stuff

cudak888 

Would this Medici be brass brazed or silver brazed? Silver might allow the downtube to be heated enough to be pulled without necessarily compromising it through a third heat cycle. Possibly. Either way, it'd just save from a lot of die grinding to fit the replacement tube.

Is it worth it? Probably not from a pure economic standpoint (including repaint costs), but if the frame is sentimental and you're willing to cover it, it's definitely doable.

-Kurt

somepetalhead

The medici Gran T is so elusive on line there are only a handful of posts with them.

13velos

A friend’s Medici Pro Strada suffered the same fate back in the ‘80s. His frame had some sort of plated finish. It wasn’t chrome, but a gold-ish color. At the time, he attributed it to a problem with the finish, but maybe that wasn’t the case.