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Looking for new Ti endurance/gravel bike

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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Looking for new Ti endurance/gravel bike

Old 11-06-19, 11:58 PM
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echelon3
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Looking for new Ti endurance/gravel bike

Hey everyone, looking for a Ti bike and am currently deciding between a Lynskey PRO GR and the Kinesis GTD as I want internally routed cables, thru-axels, and disc brakes. More than 95% of the time is spent on pavement and my rides are usually between 30-50 miles so the smaller max tire width on the GTD doesn't bother me.

I ride about 150 miles a week, with a century every couple of months. I'm not racing, but obviously like to go as fast as I can.

Any thoughts on either, or should I look for something else? Is it a bad idea to use either as road bikes with 28 or 32 tires? Thanks for your help and wisdom!
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Old 11-07-19, 04:01 AM
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Check out the Mosaic GT-1. Itís a gravel bike with road geometry. Fits 38mm tires or greater depending on your build spec.

itís pricey, so be forewarned. But if nothing else, the reviews should be helpful to figuring out the build your after. As itís truly designed for the kind of riding you mention.

i have two wheelsets for mine... all the road bike and gravel bike I need in one.
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Old 11-07-19, 05:54 AM
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Don't know your budget but I'd have a look around for any framesets/bikes that are built around a narrower tyre. Perhaps 35mm or so max.

Not what you're chasing due to specs, but something like the Dolan ADX ti disk.
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Old 11-07-19, 08:14 AM
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Never heard of either bike until now- the Kinesis isnt sold here and I just dont keep up on all the Lynskey offerings. So given that, some thoughts are below and based only on the website info.

- neither is exactly inexpensive. $2600-2700usd for just the frame and fork is wild. I say this mostly because I thought Lynskey was a lot less expensive due to constantly reading threads about how someone bought one on sale.
- they are pretty different bikes to me.


Kinesis GTD - paved road bike with space for wider tires with traditional road geometry.
Lynskey PRO GR - gravel road bike with modern gravel geometry.

In my frame size(largest for both), the Kinesis has 73.5 head tube and seat tube angles. Thats basically not seen on modern gravel- a 73.5 degree HTA. Combined with a 45mm rake fork, you get a trail measurement of 56mm when using 32mm tires.
The Lynskey has a 71 degree HTA and 50mm of fork rate which ends up being 67mm of trail with 32mm tires.
And again- these numbers are all looking at the largest frame size. Anything smaller for both frames is slacker, but even the slackest frame for the Kinesis isnt as slack as the least slack Lynskey.

The Lynskey has 435mm chainstays and the Kinesis has 420mm chainstays. This may or may not make a difference to you- 1.5mm of difference can be felt be some and others dont care.

Basically, the Kinesis looks like paved road geometry in tube angles, trail, stack, and reach. And the Lynskey looks like gravel geometry in tube angles, trail, stack, and reach.

Since you will ride 95% of the time on paved road, either will be totally up to the task and perhaps the decision should come down to fit- which geometry will fit you better. Do you want the feel of quicker turning or slower turning? Do you want to be more stretched out or more upright? etc.
The one thing Lynskey has going for it is you could toss wide tires on there if ever you start riding 50-50 paved and gravel. But I would think geometry would be a bigger motivator than the possibility of perhaps riding gravel more in the future. The geometry of the two frames is decently different enough to be the main deciding point.

Last edited by mstateglfr; 11-07-19 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 11-07-19, 08:36 AM
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You might take a look at Carverbikes.com. Davis Carver has a gravel bike made by Lynskey for him and it is a little cheaper. He also has an asian made "all-road" that can be inexpensively customized.
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Old 11-07-19, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by echelon3 View Post
Hey everyone, looking for a Ti bike and am currently deciding between a Lynskey PRO GR and the Kinesis GTD as I want internally routed cables, thru-axels, and disc brakes. More than 95% of the time is spent on pavement and my rides are usually between 30-50 miles so the smaller max tire width on the GTD doesn't bother me.

I ride about 150 miles a week, with a century every couple of months. I'm not racing, but obviously like to go as fast as I can.

Any thoughts on either, or should I look for something else? Is it a bad idea to use either as road bikes with 28 or 32 tires? Thanks for your help and wisdom!
What's your budget
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Old 11-07-19, 11:51 AM
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@Duende108 - Thanks for the suggestion! Looks like a lot of it is custom, so I can't find much on sizing and pricing. I see there is a local dealer, so I might check them out when I'm in the area.

@tangerineowl - ADX seems pretty cool, I never expected the UK to have that many Ti bike choices. I have no specific budget, but maybe $2k on a frame, but am OK with getting a pre-build. Hoping for a good deal and fit.

@mstateglfr - Thank you for the great info. I'm 5'7". so I'm between size small-medium for most of these bikes. So the Lynskey steers better at slower speeds? For body position, I would be more upright. My average speed is currently around 16 mph.

@Mike_Kelly - I did check them before, and I liked a lot of their offerings but I don't think they have internal cable routing.

@thehammerdog - I think maybe $2k on the frame and fork. With some current deals, the Lynskey is $3500 with a 105 package. Not sure if I should just get the frame since I already have an extra, better wheelset.

Thanks again everyone!
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Old 11-07-19, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by echelon3 View Post
mstateglfr - Thank you for the great info. I'm 5'7". so I'm between size small-medium for most of these bikes. So the Lynskey steers better at slower speeds? For body position, I would be more upright. My average speed is currently around 16 mph.
It isnt a matter of steering 'better' or 'worse', its just different.
Comparing the trail of two bikes-
- the higher trail bike will track straighter with less rider input/correction as speed increases. At slower speeds, it will wiggle and meander more.
- the lower trail bike will need more rider input/correction as speed increases to keep a straight line. At slower speeds, it will not wander as much.

The Lynskey has higher trail than many current road bikes. The Kinesis has lower trail than many current gravel bikes.

Its all just preference. If you like what you have right now, maybe look for a bike that has similar trail to your current bike.
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Old 11-07-19, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by echelon3 View Post
@Duende108 - Thanks for the suggestion! Looks like a lot of it is custom, so I can't find much on sizing and pricing. I see there is a local dealer, so I might check them out when I'm in the area.

@tangerineowl - ADX seems pretty cool, I never expected the UK to have that many Ti bike choices. I have no specific budget, but maybe $2k on a frame, but am OK with getting a pre-build. Hoping for a good deal and fit.

@mstateglfr - Thank you for the great info. I'm 5'7". so I'm between size small-medium for most of these bikes. So the Lynskey steers better at slower speeds? For body position, I would be more upright. My average speed is currently around 16 mph.

@Mike_Kelly - I did check them before, and I liked a lot of their offerings but I don't think they have internal cable routing.

@thehammerdog - I think maybe $2k on the frame and fork. With some current deals, the Lynskey is $3500 with a 105 package. Not sure if I should just get the frame since I already have an extra, better wheelset.

Thanks again everyone!
Avoid Lynksey, especially since you have a good budget.
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Old 11-07-19, 03:11 PM
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I'm pretty happy with my Lynskey road bike. I certainly wouldn't object to having one of their gravel bikes!
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Old 11-07-19, 04:11 PM
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Wow. From what mstateglfr said, the geometry of those is very different.

If you are used to a road bike, you may like the road geometry - although typically slower reactions are better on loose gravel. Makes it a little duller if you are riding 95% road though. IMHO, high trail bikes have to be manhandled a little into corners, and take a wider line (or require slower cornering) mostly because they typically also have longer wheelbases. The responsiveness of road geometry makes a bike you really have to stay on top of if you are riding at speed on loose surfaces, often the can't drift like a long/low/slack bike can, and they are a handful on a fast rocky downhill.

For the type of riding you are doing, I like 32mm tires (assuming your not riding chuncky stuff).
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Old 11-07-19, 04:13 PM
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- neither is exactly inexpensive. $2600-2700usd for just the frame and fork is wild. I say this mostly because I thought Lynskey was a lot less expensive due to constantly reading threads about how someone bought one on sale.
No sales this year? Typically they have some killer sales in the fall (i.e. now). Also, they used to blow out a lot of inventory through Nashbar this time of year, but obviously that isn't happening any more...
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Old 11-07-19, 05:04 PM
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Personally for an all road bike, I like the geo of the Lynskey. It serve you better on gravel descents and won't feel sluggish on road either. The Kinisis isn't bad though by any means. Really depends on your local landscape to make these decisions.

Are there tons of dirt? Is the gravel loose pack and sandy? Or hard pack? Is it flat or hilly?

FWIW, in NOCAL, I can get away with 38mm widths pretty much anywhere here. But I do need knobbies, because there's a lot of hills comprised of loose gravel here on top of bedrock. So slicks don't cut it.. and super wide tires aren't necessary except for descending sometimes. In those instances a full suspension MTB is the ticket anyways.

Personally I would recommend being able to go wider if you can and wouldn't limit yourself to 32mm. A frame that can handle a 38mm or 42mm will give you more options and won't ride any differently with 32mm tires on it.

my .02
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Old 11-07-19, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Avoid Lynksey, especially since you have a good budget.
So far they seem to be the only ones with the features I'm looking for plus extra bottle mounts.
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Old 11-07-19, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Wow. From what mstateglfr said, the geometry of those is very different.

If you are used to a road bike, you may like the road geometry - although typically slower reactions are better on loose gravel. Makes it a little duller if you are riding 95% road though. IMHO, high trail bikes have to be manhandled a little into corners, and take a wider line (or require slower cornering) mostly because they typically also have longer wheelbases. The responsiveness of road geometry makes a bike you really have to stay on top of if you are riding at speed on loose surfaces, often the can't drift like a long/low/slack bike can, and they are a handful on a fast rocky downhill.

For the type of riding you are doing, I like 32mm tires (assuming your not riding chuncky stuff).
That makes sense. Never really thought about bike geo that much. I've been using Fusion 5 28s (measures 30) and a GP5K 32 for the rear.

They have sales all the time. This is the first time for the 2020 models (15% off), plus I can 5x points through PayPal/Chase currently.

Last edited by echelon3; 11-07-19 at 05:19 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 11-07-19, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Duende108 View Post
Personally for an all road bike, I like the geo of the Lynskey. It serve you better on gravel descents and won't feel sluggish on road either. The Kinisis isn't bad though by any means. Really depends on your local landscape to make these decisions.

Are there tons of dirt? Is the gravel loose pack and sandy? Or hard pack? Is it flat or hilly?

FWIW, in NOCAL, I can get away with 38mm widths pretty much anywhere here. But I do need knobbies, because there's a lot of hills comprised of loose gravel here on top of bedrock. So slicks don't cut it.. and super wide tires aren't necessary except for descending sometimes. In those instances a full suspension MTB is the ticket anyways.

Personally I would recommend being able to go wider if you can and wouldn't limit yourself to 32mm. A frame that can handle a 38mm or 42mm will give you more options and won't ride any differently with 32mm tires on it.

my .02
I'm in NYC, so there is a MTB trail and some trails up north but nothing difficult. I can probably get away with slick Gravelkings. The bike probably won't see much gravel, but will tackle a lot of garbage roads. I'll look more into the geo, thanks.
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Old 11-07-19, 08:09 PM
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Why the Lynskey Pro GR and not the regular GR?.

I had a new Lynskey GR 270, new this spring, and used it on our local fast paced roadie rides and also on lots of long gravel rides. Two sets of wheels - one set had 43c tubeless gravel tires, and the other had 32c Conti 5000's. I thought the frame handled both really well, i.e. no-hands stable and great on fast gravel descents, and much more responsive with the smaller road tires on road rides. Very nice frame geometry.

But, I thought the frame, and especially the front end (head tube and fork) of my (non-PRO) gravel frame was too stiff. And I'm not a lightweight at 195 lbs. I don't know what they're thinking with the PRO model...
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Old 11-07-19, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nellborg View Post
Why the Lynskey Pro GR and not the regular GR?.

I had a new Lynskey GR 270, new this spring, and used it on our local fast paced roadie rides and also on lots of long gravel rides. Two sets of wheels - one set had 43c tubeless gravel tires, and the other had 32c Conti 5000's. I thought the frame handled both really well, i.e. no-hands stable and great on fast gravel descents, and much more responsive with the smaller road tires on road rides. Very nice frame geometry.

But, I thought the frame, and especially the front end (head tube and fork) of my (non-PRO) gravel frame was too stiff. And I'm not a lightweight at 195 lbs. I don't know what they're thinking with the PRO model...
With regards to the model, I guess I'm viewing it as a forever bike so I'm willing to spend more on the frame. Did it feel stiff with the gravel tires too?
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Old 11-07-19, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
It isnt a matter of steering 'better' or 'worse', its just different.
Comparing the trail of two bikes-
- the higher trail bike will track straighter with less rider input/correction as speed increases. At slower speeds, it will wiggle and meander more.
- the lower trail bike will need more rider input/correction as speed increases to keep a straight line. At slower speeds, it will not wander as much.

The Lynskey has higher trail than many current road bikes. The Kinesis has lower trail than many current gravel bikes.

Its all just preference. If you like what you have right now, maybe look for a bike that has similar trail to your current bike.
Understood. Just calculated the trail on my Haanjo and it came to 80mm, and a Lynskey (M) would be 70mm. It probably would be a bit better than what I have now but I also guess it's not something I've thought of much. Thanks!
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Old 11-07-19, 09:04 PM
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OP: Why titanium? With very little care, a good steel frame will last pretty much forever; it will also cost less, weigh about the same (or an irrelevant amount more) and ride at least as well as ti.

Just throwing that out there.
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Old 11-07-19, 09:52 PM
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I'm not against steel (I'm hoping to rebuild a vintage steel bike over the winter), but I like the raw finish plus ti bikes have more of the features I'm looking for. If there are any steel bikes you think are worth checking out, please let me know. I'm only familiar with All-City.
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Old 11-08-19, 11:02 AM
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Well, if you want the Lynskey - this video might convince you:
Basically, he loves the versatiltity of the bike (Tire size flexibility, mounts, and bike over all). There is a lot more Lenskey content there.

If I was going for a metalic bike - I would probably get the new Tom Ritchey gravel bike (Swiss Cross or Outback). I love good '90s steel feel. Many new steel bikes are overbuilt. This one seems to have that magic that bikes in the '90s had, with all of the component updates for today's bike.

For instance - the industry overbuilds the head tube to make it stiff, and then looks at ways to soften the front end. He's like - what the heck - just make it right - you don't need an ultra stiff head tube on a gravel bike that you might want on a full sus mountain bike.

The reviews mention things like:
feel is sublime; sublimely smooth
one of the nicest riding bikes I've ridden in a long time, regardless of the frame material.


Its not a race bike - its not going to have the pop on acceleration a light carbon bike will have, but it sounds like it has the feel that you are looking for. Not sure who else really makes steel gravel bikes that are not tank like.

Last edited by chas58; 11-08-19 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 11-08-19, 12:04 PM
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Kona Rove ST. Cheap, steel, versatile with tire choice, comfy. 650x2.1 mtb tires for when you wanna get rowdy and 650x47 or 700x32 slicks for the road.

I honestly can't tell the difference between the steel fork to a carbon one. It's heavier sure but comfort wise there's no difference.

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Old 11-08-19, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by echelon3 View Post
I'm not against steel (I'm hoping to rebuild a vintage steel bike over the winter), but I like the raw finish plus ti bikes have more of the features I'm looking for. If there are any steel bikes you think are worth checking out, please let me know. I'm only familiar with All-City.
Otso Warakin
Ritchey Outback
Soma Fog Cutter
All City Cosmic Stallion
Fairlight Strael
Fairlight Secan

These are some quality frames/bikes that have a lot of attachments, thru axle, and disc brakes. Internally routed cables isnt on the table with these frames though.
Anyways, the ones above do vary in geometry but are all less slack than the Lynskey and are paved and unpaved road capable. I own a Secan and had I not built a paved road frame a couple years ago, I would buy a Strael. The Secan's geometry is very much a paved road bike with the ability to handle large tires. Soma Fog Cutter is another in that mold.
The Ritchey and Soma have more traditional 1 1/8 steerer tubes and as mentioned, a huge head tube and tapered steerer is probably overkill for most people on gravel bikes. My Secan has both and I dont mind the stiffness, but it probably is more than I need or benefit from.


I figured you were based in the UK due to asking about Kinesis. That isnt a brand I have seen in person...ever.
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Old 11-08-19, 08:01 PM
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Maybe the

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Why Cycles RPlus
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