Four season shelter
02-19-20, 09:39 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
My goodness the bike forum promotes a lot of ads. Haven't seen REI yet. Its below freezing and insulated materials keep me warm. Sure I enjoy sharing and learning from others experiences don't we all?
02-20-20, 09:42 AM
#27
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I'm not against how you choose to tour, it sounds like a page right out of unsupported bikepack racing like the Trans Am - but in your initial post you made it sound like the OP and other participants here should spend less time trying to discuss comprehensive options for shelter and warmth in favor of traveling minimally light instead. Yet for all of that you also admit to seeking overhangs while carrying a free standing tent and hauled a sleeping bag over 8000 miles only to use it a couple of times. So, in the grand scheme of things, who's really carrying a lot of stuff they rarely use?
It's cool to do what you want to do as this is a hobby and not an occupation or contest but you seem to really have a negative attitude for those who don't see things from your narrow perspective. There are lots of worthwhile options for touring, socializing and employment other than staying in limited geographic locales, camping alone and choosing dead end jobs to return to. It's fine if that's what you truly choose, but if that's what you choose because that's all you can do it's not really freedom.
It's cool to do what you want to do as this is a hobby and not an occupation or contest but you seem to really have a negative attitude for those who don't see things from your narrow perspective. There are lots of worthwhile options for touring, socializing and employment other than staying in limited geographic locales, camping alone and choosing dead end jobs to return to. It's fine if that's what you truly choose, but if that's what you choose because that's all you can do it's not really freedom.
I come to this forum to be able to help people out with alternative views on how to accomplish the same task. Since everyone on this forum is stuck to the idea of 'black' only I see a multitude of colors and I'm open to using a multitude of colors to accomplish the task. Not everyone who reads this forum/thread will post. If they did you would probably keel over dead at what you hear. You think everyone who comes on this forum is looking to spend money out there yin-yang to buy gear to go on a weekend long bike trip. I'm sorry to inform that is not the case. Not everyone wants to/is able to throw money at a problem. I'm here to present the alternative view so everyone can benefit and not just the 'social elite'.
OP, you won't find the perfect tent, it never has and never will exist. If you did find something like it, it would be so darn big and bulky you would never be able to fit it on bike panniers and due to its weight you would not want to be hauling it around on the bike. Instead look for multiple tents/sleeping bags to cover the conditions you are going to be riding.
There are three ways of going about dealing with the simple problem of planning a trip. One plan the trip around the equipment you have. Two, have multiple equipment to cover a wide range of conditions. Three, when sh*t hits the fan, hole up in a hotel for the night and sit of the conditions in a land of safety.
No one says you have to start out bike touring doing round the world bike trips. Start out small with what you currently have and buy new gear as money and the need present itself. Trying to carry a one size fits all product may sound like a good idea but you will it is more of a hassle and a curse then it could ever hope to be a blessing.
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02-20-20, 10:10 AM
#28
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I guess you don't realize the people you're talking to don't think the way you imagine they do.
Anyone who's been around awhile would know I primarily tour one geographic region (Western Canada) because it's cheaper to access without flights and there's lot's to see. But I am not bound to it and do occasionally like international travel. i certainly don't think people are doing it wrong for choosing to travel if they can afford it.
I also loath throwing money at problems and would rather DIY someting than buy. I've documented quite a number of thrift store rebuild threads in the past (including a kitty litter HB bag). Sometimes though, I do decide I want something "more" and save for a long time to buy it. Last summer I bought a decent fat bike, second hand, but did so by forgoing the air fare I had saved up for my holiday, choosing to ride locally instead.
Rather than suggesting a "one product that suits all conditions", I and some others, have suggested the more tried and true method of layering bags to scale up and down for conditions.
Also not very "elite', having spent most of my life as a blue collar worker and have not yet toured "around the world"...
If you weren't so quick to judge others who plan differently so they enjoy their work and pastimes you would see many people share similar views to yours.. sometimes - but aren't bound to them as an absolute.
Just so you don't think everyone is a rich snob: I can relate to some of the perceptions because, when younger, I too lived outdoors for the most part and was fairly isolated from the societal norms and tended to see what I did as more "noble" than what the majority of lemmings were up to. However, I married an amazing woman and she reintroduced me to society in a way that taught me I could play a helpful role within it, as well as maintain my outdoor ethos. I've been a parent of minor kids for 30 years (the youngest is 18 now yay!!!), mentored youth as a Scout leader for a long time and in my current career as a Rehab Assistant tend to the physical, social and emotional needs of a population of frail elderly to help them recover from fractures, stroke, cope with disease processes like ALS, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, Dementias, MS as well as maintain mobility and independence as they age naturally. Talking to them on a daily basis has certainly changed my POV as far as considering most people being lemmings is concerned. I now see that as primarily conceit on my part. What I struggled with the most back then, and what caused a lot of angst, was not feeling a sense of validation or greater purpose. Thankfully, I have both my long time outdoor values and that now.
A lifestyle choice should make one happy. The measure of that is whether that happiness extends to the life style choices of others. Whatever you choose, let it make you happy for others as well.
Anyone who's been around awhile would know I primarily tour one geographic region (Western Canada) because it's cheaper to access without flights and there's lot's to see. But I am not bound to it and do occasionally like international travel. i certainly don't think people are doing it wrong for choosing to travel if they can afford it.
I also loath throwing money at problems and would rather DIY someting than buy. I've documented quite a number of thrift store rebuild threads in the past (including a kitty litter HB bag). Sometimes though, I do decide I want something "more" and save for a long time to buy it. Last summer I bought a decent fat bike, second hand, but did so by forgoing the air fare I had saved up for my holiday, choosing to ride locally instead.
Rather than suggesting a "one product that suits all conditions", I and some others, have suggested the more tried and true method of layering bags to scale up and down for conditions.
Also not very "elite', having spent most of my life as a blue collar worker and have not yet toured "around the world"...
If you weren't so quick to judge others who plan differently so they enjoy their work and pastimes you would see many people share similar views to yours.. sometimes - but aren't bound to them as an absolute.
Just so you don't think everyone is a rich snob: I can relate to some of the perceptions because, when younger, I too lived outdoors for the most part and was fairly isolated from the societal norms and tended to see what I did as more "noble" than what the majority of lemmings were up to. However, I married an amazing woman and she reintroduced me to society in a way that taught me I could play a helpful role within it, as well as maintain my outdoor ethos. I've been a parent of minor kids for 30 years (the youngest is 18 now yay!!!), mentored youth as a Scout leader for a long time and in my current career as a Rehab Assistant tend to the physical, social and emotional needs of a population of frail elderly to help them recover from fractures, stroke, cope with disease processes like ALS, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, Dementias, MS as well as maintain mobility and independence as they age naturally. Talking to them on a daily basis has certainly changed my POV as far as considering most people being lemmings is concerned. I now see that as primarily conceit on my part. What I struggled with the most back then, and what caused a lot of angst, was not feeling a sense of validation or greater purpose. Thankfully, I have both my long time outdoor values and that now.
A lifestyle choice should make one happy. The measure of that is whether that happiness extends to the life style choices of others. Whatever you choose, let it make you happy for others as well.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 02-20-20 at 11:11 AM.
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02-20-20, 08:27 PM
#29
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Bikenh, I try to play the ends against the middle (so to speak) in the "land of the free" (if you can afford it!)....
Vis a vis what you have posted: I am greatful! Free is indeed the best price!!! So I am always interested in the way experienced modern pioneers get around "throwing money at things."
By the same token, my bike is equipped with nice USED stuff that others, who do throw money at things, sell cheaply! If I were religious, I'd be throwing blessings at them. Rich and foolish people throw away the best stuff.
So, yeah, I do find people perpetuating the system to be a drag. Yet, I do take advantage of them also
Vis a vis what you have posted: I am greatful! Free is indeed the best price!!! So I am always interested in the way experienced modern pioneers get around "throwing money at things."
By the same token, my bike is equipped with nice USED stuff that others, who do throw money at things, sell cheaply! If I were religious, I'd be throwing blessings at them. Rich and foolish people throw away the best stuff.
So, yeah, I do find people perpetuating the system to be a drag. Yet, I do take advantage of them also
02-23-20, 09:50 PM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The currant community offers lots of free rubbish on the curbside, dumpsters, stores and its fun going morning or evening cycle shopping which I enjoy with my aging imagination, google, YT and library education.
The Rubbish Eco Warriors and:
The Pedal-Powered Motorhome - Part 7 - "Camping Trip"
The Rubbish Eco Warriors and:
The Pedal-Powered Motorhome - Part 7 - "Camping Trip"
02-24-20, 09:23 PM
#31
Senior Member
When dome tents first came out for climbing (well, when I became aware of them in the 80's) the better ones had a fly with a reflective silver coating. Faced inside for winter to reflect heat back in and out for summer to deflect sun rays. I don't know about winter but it seemed to help in the summer.
02-25-20, 01:11 AM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
https://campinghabits.com/tent-cooling-heating/ suggested this & I'll try it:
US Energy Products 50sqft 5/16” thick R-8 Reflective Foam Core Insulation
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZODPROW
Highly Reflective Double Sided Radiant Barrier with a closed-cell foam core insulation. Non-toxic, non-carcinogenic, fiber-free, safe to handle Does not compress, collapse or disintegrate. Reflects 97% of radiant heat, Not affected by moisture or humidity. Inhibits condensation and does not promote the growth of fungi, mold or mildew. Does not promote nesting of insects or rodents. Non-flammable, flame ******ant. Keeping your home warmer in the winter, and cooler in the summer. 50 square foot roll (24 Inches wide, 25 feet long ), 7MM (5/16 In) thick.
US Energy Products 50sqft 5/16” thick R-8 Reflective Foam Core Insulation
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZODPROW
Highly Reflective Double Sided Radiant Barrier with a closed-cell foam core insulation. Non-toxic, non-carcinogenic, fiber-free, safe to handle Does not compress, collapse or disintegrate. Reflects 97% of radiant heat, Not affected by moisture or humidity. Inhibits condensation and does not promote the growth of fungi, mold or mildew. Does not promote nesting of insects or rodents. Non-flammable, flame ******ant. Keeping your home warmer in the winter, and cooler in the summer. 50 square foot roll (24 Inches wide, 25 feet long ), 7MM (5/16 In) thick.
02-26-20, 07:38 PM
#33
Senior Member
I have a Black Diamond Ahwahnee that serves the OP’s purpose (aka 'Bibler Ahwahnee' ... Bibler made and sold tents under his name and years later sold his tent designs to Black Diamond who now sells them).
https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...-BD810130.html
^read the reviews from folks who have had this tent for years or even decades.
It’s a 4 season, single wall, Gore-Tex tent, i.e. no fly. No fly helps keep the weight down. This tent is one piece of gear you will not have to worry about or doubt. It's completely reliable in all weather conditions no matter how extreme. Totally bomber.
It features two doors each of which completely open (roll down) so that when both are open the tent is essentially a roof with open sides ... you lay down and the tent walls on either side are completely open ... gaze at the stars. No see um netting doors also if you need to keep bugs out. Sufficient headroom make this a comfortable tent to be inside of. In fact, I've placed a small low to the ground folding aluminum frame chair inside the tent and sat inside meditating. (I've not biked toured ever so can't speak to that ... I have an ultralight Cuban fiber tent I intend to use for bike touring but wouldn't want to count on it in winter or extreme conditions).
I’ve used this tent in a 0F degree blizzard and awoke to about a foot of snow on top of the tent … without any issues of the snow's weight stressing the tent. Over the years I’ve seen too numerous to count tents that were not rated for winter/snow conditions and completely collapsed/crushed/abandoned/corkscrewed into the ground under the weight of even a little snow. It’s a common sight in areas where those inexperienced in winter camping and/or anticipating moderate temps suddenly receive a lesson in the unpredictability of the weather.
The Bibler seals out the elements, keeps out rain no matter how vicious, and stands proud in the snow. It’s endured pretty high winds. I’ve spent at least a year living in this tent in various landscapes and conditions and never had an issue .. warm in the winter, cool in the summer, dry as a bone in the rain.
I also have a vestibule for it which provides additional storage space and weather protection, although if I were considering it for a bike tour I’d leave off the vestibule to save weight.
With both doors open, I’ve lounged in total comfort in the desert … essentially reposing in the shade with open walls so air can blow through ... like a beach cabana.
It’s on the more expensive end of the tent pricing spectrum as it’s a premium tent, very well made, and all Gore-Tex (‘Todd -Tex’ was the name given to the material boy its inventor, Todd Bibler). The single wall Gore-Tex fabric is soft on the interior face ('fuzzy') and this permits it to wick up and hold any condensation so that it doesn't drip on you and can more easily evaporate ... it works exceptionally well ... in fact I don't believe I've ever gotten wet inside this tent and that includes the foot of my sleeping bag. Plenty of venting options due to the large doors. If you tend towards a stealthy look it does come in green (I cannot stand outdoor gear that is only made in orange, red, yellow, blue, etc.).
I got mine used in 2004. In 2012 I received a warranty replacement (I was experiencing a zipper issue ... excellent warranty). So 16 years with the tent. My original tent had one door and one window, the warranty replacement is the newer version with two doors. Additional versatility: if two people are living in the tent you can put two vestibules on the tent and this way each person as their own entrance and own vestibule to store gear.
Here’s the weights I have recorded for my tent:
Complete whole enchilada (tent, vestibule + vestibule netting, interior netting pockets and loft, all poles including optional vestibule pole, stake bag + extra cord) = 8lb. 2oz.
Note: optional vestibule, vestibule no see um netting, and pole = 28.2 oz.
Add in something like a Neotherm sleeping pad and sleeping bag of your choice and you should be good to go. I sleep cold and have a -20F Western Mountaineering Puma. Another way to go could be to get a somewhat warmer rated (lighter weight) down sleeping bag in addition to a down jacket and down pants. This would allow you to wear the jacket and pants in the evenings at camp during long winter evenings and you could sleep with the down jacket and pants when it's really cold to increase the rating the somewhat warmer sleeping bag ... and use the same bag without the down clothing for spring/autumn weather. If things get super cold and desperate, do the boiling water in a Nalgene bottle dealio and bring it into the sleeping bag with you.
https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...-BD810130.html
^read the reviews from folks who have had this tent for years or even decades.
It’s a 4 season, single wall, Gore-Tex tent, i.e. no fly. No fly helps keep the weight down. This tent is one piece of gear you will not have to worry about or doubt. It's completely reliable in all weather conditions no matter how extreme. Totally bomber.
It features two doors each of which completely open (roll down) so that when both are open the tent is essentially a roof with open sides ... you lay down and the tent walls on either side are completely open ... gaze at the stars. No see um netting doors also if you need to keep bugs out. Sufficient headroom make this a comfortable tent to be inside of. In fact, I've placed a small low to the ground folding aluminum frame chair inside the tent and sat inside meditating. (I've not biked toured ever so can't speak to that ... I have an ultralight Cuban fiber tent I intend to use for bike touring but wouldn't want to count on it in winter or extreme conditions).
I’ve used this tent in a 0F degree blizzard and awoke to about a foot of snow on top of the tent … without any issues of the snow's weight stressing the tent. Over the years I’ve seen too numerous to count tents that were not rated for winter/snow conditions and completely collapsed/crushed/abandoned/corkscrewed into the ground under the weight of even a little snow. It’s a common sight in areas where those inexperienced in winter camping and/or anticipating moderate temps suddenly receive a lesson in the unpredictability of the weather.
The Bibler seals out the elements, keeps out rain no matter how vicious, and stands proud in the snow. It’s endured pretty high winds. I’ve spent at least a year living in this tent in various landscapes and conditions and never had an issue .. warm in the winter, cool in the summer, dry as a bone in the rain.
I also have a vestibule for it which provides additional storage space and weather protection, although if I were considering it for a bike tour I’d leave off the vestibule to save weight.
With both doors open, I’ve lounged in total comfort in the desert … essentially reposing in the shade with open walls so air can blow through ... like a beach cabana.
It’s on the more expensive end of the tent pricing spectrum as it’s a premium tent, very well made, and all Gore-Tex (‘Todd -Tex’ was the name given to the material boy its inventor, Todd Bibler). The single wall Gore-Tex fabric is soft on the interior face ('fuzzy') and this permits it to wick up and hold any condensation so that it doesn't drip on you and can more easily evaporate ... it works exceptionally well ... in fact I don't believe I've ever gotten wet inside this tent and that includes the foot of my sleeping bag. Plenty of venting options due to the large doors. If you tend towards a stealthy look it does come in green (I cannot stand outdoor gear that is only made in orange, red, yellow, blue, etc.).
I got mine used in 2004. In 2012 I received a warranty replacement (I was experiencing a zipper issue ... excellent warranty). So 16 years with the tent. My original tent had one door and one window, the warranty replacement is the newer version with two doors. Additional versatility: if two people are living in the tent you can put two vestibules on the tent and this way each person as their own entrance and own vestibule to store gear.
Here’s the weights I have recorded for my tent:
Complete whole enchilada (tent, vestibule + vestibule netting, interior netting pockets and loft, all poles including optional vestibule pole, stake bag + extra cord) = 8lb. 2oz.
Note: optional vestibule, vestibule no see um netting, and pole = 28.2 oz.
Add in something like a Neotherm sleeping pad and sleeping bag of your choice and you should be good to go. I sleep cold and have a -20F Western Mountaineering Puma. Another way to go could be to get a somewhat warmer rated (lighter weight) down sleeping bag in addition to a down jacket and down pants. This would allow you to wear the jacket and pants in the evenings at camp during long winter evenings and you could sleep with the down jacket and pants when it's really cold to increase the rating the somewhat warmer sleeping bag ... and use the same bag without the down clothing for spring/autumn weather. If things get super cold and desperate, do the boiling water in a Nalgene bottle dealio and bring it into the sleeping bag with you.
Last edited by Lovegasoline; 02-26-20 at 08:23 PM.
