topflightpro

I had that frame. Great bike. I was even considering having it repainted - mine suffered corrosion at the carbon/aluminum junction. Unfortunately, I got hit by a car while riding it this summer. It cracked where the carbon downtube joins the the aluminum. It's now sitting on a shelf in my office with my other broken frames.

Doge

"Nicole the speed Machine". He names his bikes. The 2nd SHIV is for a teammate and I was asked to do the Di2 build. While I am very grateful for this stuff it is the first time not owning it and being (son that is) told what to ride. A lot of the fun for me was the weightweenie stuff that while often backfiring, sometimes ended up better. We will likely use his bars and stem and swap out cables. But the water bottle cages are team issue and not to be swapped. Fortunately HED and Specalized are great stuff. He'll have HED Stinger 3 and HED Stinger 6 both tubular. Then our wheels for training and TT (maybe a HED disc and tri later).

Doge

Yea, I think the way you do it makes the most sense. He likes it the other way. We shall see.

So this Tarmac did not come with any (metal) fork race. just seems to be carbon on bearing. Is that what you have? Pretty light setup. The seat collar is gone too and replaced with an in-tube wedge.

globecanvas

Why?

Doge

My thoughts were the aero Venge being better for the opportunity to push wind alone like in a RR break and the Tarmac being better shielded in the pack in a crit. The cockpit of both bikes measure the same but Daniel says they ride differently. Not finished with build yet, but I gotta expect the Tarmac will be lighter (which suggests it is a better RR bike).

TheKillerPenguin

How does the Venge feel while climbing though?

tetonrider

well, i DO ride the venge in 100% of crits and RRs, so i was just saying if someone forced me to ride a tarmac in one and a venge in the other, that's the way i'd go.

if anything, the venge understeers a slight bit (relative to the tarmac; it's slight but noticeable when riding lots on each), so the tarmac would handle just a bit better in tight quarters. i also think aero matters more over longer distances and durations, and personally i'm more likely to be OTF in a RR.

the geo of the tarmac and venge is identical--one can get the exact same fit. there is a slight ride difference--mostly notable in a few specific circumstances.

the tarmac builds up lighter...about 160g for apples-to-apples (depends a little on paint job and a few other factors).

unless it's a very specific circumstance (purely uphill race, or key selection made on the rare place where weight trumps aero), that weight difference is so marginal that it doesn't take much aero to make up for it.

tetonrider

normal. the way of the world these days.

tetonrider

it feels like a bike, pretty much.

splitting hairs, at the lowest speeds, i've felt that the tarmac feels a bit more quick to accelerate vs an older style venge with the exact configuration (drivetrain, wheels, tires, stem, bars, saddle...). really minor.

at 25mph and accelerating to 30, the venge has a feeling of ease that the tarmac lacks. subtle but noticeable when you've spent lots of time on both.

when i'm descending a mountain pass at 50mph, the venge requires just a bit more input to hold the same line in a turn.

the differences are subtle...just stuff that i have observed after tons of miles on each with the same setup & over the same terrain. i switch back and forth between tarmac and venge (and new ViAS) all the time, and it is not at all a thing to make the switch. that said, before i got the ViAS i would choose to race the venge 100% of the time (except for an uphill HC > 7% grade).

that's my take after riding on both of those bikes side-by-side for 4 years. (i have more experience on the tarmac, but i first got a venge in 2011.)

TheKillerPenguin

Interesting. Thanks.

globecanvas

I know "venge vs tarmac" handwringing is a very tired discussion so I apologize for rekindling it. I absolutely loved my tarmac. I test rode a venge a couple years ago and never had the "aah love" feeling, and no reason to switch from the tarmac. For want of a better word, the venge just didn't feel as lively. I don't want to place too much weight on my test ride impressions because the wheels, exact fit, etc were different, but on the other hand, that seems like a common reaction when comparing the two.

But, I am just about to pull the trigger on a new non-vias venge frame for racing next year. I expect to race maybe 20 crits and 2 RRs next season, no climbers' races at all. I don't care at all about half a pound -- at a pound I'd start to care. I understand the reasoning that aero matters more over longer durations, but I figure there's no way to win a crit without being in the wind for at least some of it. Bike handling matters, but I can't imagine the venge handling is actually bad, just maybe not as responsive feeling as the tarmac.

Doge

My experience with kids (teammates too) is what they THINK is the best usually produces the better result. I expect that works with adults too, but less so.

Ygduf

I expect it works equally.

tetonrider

day in, day out, the venge just goes a bit faster on a bit less watts. it just does. i've ridden it all over.

now, that does not mean it is the perfect bike nor does it mean anyone should ride it instead of a tarmac. lots of factors come into play.

and certainly sometimes we get excited or just 'feel better' riding one things vs another. maybe the tarmac goes faster (because we put out a few more watts, and that is due to just general excitement), but whether it's because the frame is faster or because we ride harder when we're on something that we prefer....who cares?

at top input (power), the venge will make better speed.

even up a hill without riding down the other side or having a flat/rolling lead-in to the hill you have to get pretty steep before 160g makes a notable difference. the slight aero benefit offsets all or part of that weight difference up to inclines of about 5-6% for the average amateur racer's power-to-weight. (and, yes, i've been in a scenario where 1 kilo of additional weight translated to +30 seconds; that particular event is about the only race where i choose the tarmac over the venge.)

and, globe, by definition, you will never win any road race or crit without ever seeing some wind -- even if it is only the last 10 meters, but your point is taken.

canuckbelle

I'm looking at new shoes for next season. Bont has a sale on their A-Two shoes. The problem is that they don't have 43s for that price. I measured my bigger foot at 268mm, which suggests a perfect 43 (272mm). They have a 44 (277mm) and they're heat-moldable. My smaller foot is 262mm. Is 1.5cm too much room? All my sizes are measured with socks.

https://www.leftlanesports.com/App_Th...BontSizing.jpg

Ygduf

no one can tell you what is comfortable on your feet

Doge

I found it very hard to find places that will heat mold shoes properly (vacuum).

dz_nuzz

Why would you ever want to heat your moldy shoes.... I say get new ones at that point.

Impreza_aL

race what you can't afford to replace lulz.

hubcyclist

Maybe someone can talk me out of this, but all of a sudden I got the idea of converting my giant hybrid into a drop bar as a poor mans cross bike. It's 3x7 tourney components, so if I just got the bar and Microshift brifters maybe I could pull it off seamlessly? The bike doesn't get nearly enough love and want to either make it more useful for the type of riding I do or find it another home, figure if I can change it up for $100ish it could be worth it and not too guilt inducing. To be decided I guess lol

edit: might be more complicated than I thought, never mind lol

shovelhd

Does it have twist grip or thumb shifters? Do the hybrid bars have rise? Look into converting to a flat bar. That will be fine for cross as long as you're just doing it for fun.

Doge

Venge actually has a lot more tire clearance than the Tarmac.

TheKillerPenguin

Are those 28c?

Doge

They measure about 27.5. Just beautiful tires.

Dutch Jazz

Hey @Doge, some while a go you mentioned having bought the BePro powermeter. Would you care to do a little write up of your experiences so far? I think your critical and well-informed views could provide me with some additional insights on whether or not they are a good option for me. I'm interested in a pedal-based powermeter because I'm planning on a completely new bike at the end of the year.