Ideal Zwift position
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,045
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3009 Post(s)
Liked 3,785 Times
in
1,405 Posts
Ideal Zwift position
Yeah. Maybe not the right forum, but you certainly can use an on-topic bike to Zwift. And I hang out here so I'm asking here. Speculation and wild-ass guessing is allowed everywhere..
I'm having a little lunch and taking a break from building a stone wall. Channel surfing has landed me on Hawaii's triathlon. Spoiler alert, I already know Mollema won Lombardia.
Anyhow, Zwift is running ads and the dude is on a tri-bike. During the Tour, Zwift used Thomas instead of the random tri-guy for their ads. Got me to wondering, which position is most efficient for e-racing - road/tri/bent? Something else? Also, seems to me modern bike tech doesn't have much of an advantage for e racing. Is that correct?
Discuss.
I'm having a little lunch and taking a break from building a stone wall. Channel surfing has landed me on Hawaii's triathlon. Spoiler alert, I already know Mollema won Lombardia.
Anyhow, Zwift is running ads and the dude is on a tri-bike. During the Tour, Zwift used Thomas instead of the random tri-guy for their ads. Got me to wondering, which position is most efficient for e-racing - road/tri/bent? Something else? Also, seems to me modern bike tech doesn't have much of an advantage for e racing. Is that correct?
Discuss.
#2
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 10,997
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2192 Post(s)
Liked 4,580 Times
in
1,762 Posts
No clue WRT Zwift (you'd have to ask mrs non-fixie ) but thanks for the heads-up on Bauke's win. Excellent! He really needed that.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,777
Bikes: Numerous
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1676 Post(s)
Liked 3,084 Times
in
911 Posts
Zwift is all about power output, so if you’re interested in competing against others, then whatever gets you the most power. There is also the game aspect of it, so the more you ride, you get perks like aero carbon wheels, things like that, that will let you go faster. I tend to ride Zwift on a (virtual) steel bike with the box section wheels and a Molteni-esque Jersey because, hey, that’s how I roll. My actual bike that I ride is my old TT bike because it otherwise doesn’t get much use.
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
Likes For Ex Pres:
#5
Senior Member
I'd think that C&V bikes would put a rider in as good a position as any, and maybe the best. The hope with TT bikes is that the rider can maintain the power they normally generate in a typical position while riding in a more aero shape. I don't know much about recumbents, but it seems like riders typically lose a little power in that position, but it could be because they're mostly not trained in it, and they lose the ability to stand.
Anyway, I would think a Eddy Merckx type fitting road bike would open up most riders to optimize their power, which is what counts for e racing.
Anyway, I would think a Eddy Merckx type fitting road bike would open up most riders to optimize their power, which is what counts for e racing.
#6
Just call me Carrie
I'm sure there have been studies on this. If you remove the variable of wind resistance, does aero position really matter? Is it the best position? I'd think that the best option would be the one that makes you comfortable and allows you to continue at your desired speed/pace.
I've got a couple of gals in my tri group who Zwift in the off season. Personally, I don't need to compete that badly. But I'm old and slow and cool with just finishing.
I've got a couple of gals in my tri group who Zwift in the off season. Personally, I don't need to compete that badly. But I'm old and slow and cool with just finishing.
__________________
I was going to have a good signature but apparently I'm too verbose.
I was going to have a good signature but apparently I'm too verbose.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,045
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3009 Post(s)
Liked 3,785 Times
in
1,405 Posts
I'm sure there have been studies on this. If you remove the variable of wind resistance, does aero position really matter? Is it the best position? I'd think that the best option would be the one that makes you comfortable and allows you to continue at your desired speed/pace.
I've got a couple of gals in my tri group who Zwift in the off season. Personally, I don't need to compete that badly. But I'm old and slow and cool with just finishing.
I've got a couple of gals in my tri group who Zwift in the off season. Personally, I don't need to compete that badly. But I'm old and slow and cool with just finishing.
And another thing, will a powermeter work with my steel cottered Magistroni crank?
Likes For iab:
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,826 Times
in
1,994 Posts
The Smokey Yanuk approach-
CeramicSpeed bearings, no contact seals.
CeramicSpeed as much as you can afford
might as well remove as many parasitic watts as possible.
with regard to position- what is currently used as the most efficient- keeping in mind that wind resistance is not a concern.
note that Andy Hampsten raised his bars to win in the Giro.
CeramicSpeed bearings, no contact seals.
CeramicSpeed as much as you can afford
might as well remove as many parasitic watts as possible.
with regard to position- what is currently used as the most efficient- keeping in mind that wind resistance is not a concern.
note that Andy Hampsten raised his bars to win in the Giro.
#9
Non omnino gravis
Whatever is the absolutely most comfortable, as you have no other concerns. My time on Zwift was spent entirely due to a broken hand, so I couldn't even rest one hand on the bars. I built a table that sat over the bars, so I could rest my elbows and forearms on it. I still never managed more than around 3.5 hours at a stretch, but it was a whole lot nicer than gripping the bars on the dumb trainer for even an hour. Nothing "real world" translates to Zwift. It's a video game with cardio. Work on your spin, make constant power, and enjoy the power-ups.
#10
1/2 as far in 2x the time
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bergen County, NJ
Posts: 1,746
Bikes: Yes, Please.
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked 285 Times
in
222 Posts
Zwifting
Never done it.
2 thoughts-
1) recumbent type pushing against a backrest but rotated to a road bike position, so dancing on the pedals is possible. Remember the s banned saddles of the nineties
Eric
2 thoughts-
1) recumbent type pushing against a backrest but rotated to a road bike position, so dancing on the pedals is possible. Remember the s banned saddles of the nineties
Eric
#11
buy my bikes
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,799
Bikes: my very own customized GUNNAR CrossHairs
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 426 Times
in
248 Posts
before reading through this post I thought SWIFT - ZWIFIT - whatever - was dumb. (will, the whole virtual biking thing in general, just ZIFTER...)
and after reading through the thoughtful posts about maximizing power out put for virtual biking, I am convinced I'm right. or don't care. either.
if you really want more power, use a BOT!!
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bri...-for-cheating/
200km at 2kW or something.....
"According to The Guardian, Jeffers manipulated his profile by using a bot to ride at a weight of 45kg, doing 2000W for over 200km. The rides helped him unlock the Zwift Concept Z1 bike that offered performance advantages on his rides."
just dumb. go outside and ride a bike.
Tschuss!
and after reading through the thoughtful posts about maximizing power out put for virtual biking, I am convinced I'm right. or don't care. either.
if you really want more power, use a BOT!!
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bri...-for-cheating/
200km at 2kW or something.....
"According to The Guardian, Jeffers manipulated his profile by using a bot to ride at a weight of 45kg, doing 2000W for over 200km. The rides helped him unlock the Zwift Concept Z1 bike that offered performance advantages on his rides."
just dumb. go outside and ride a bike.
Tschuss!
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,045
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3009 Post(s)
Liked 3,785 Times
in
1,405 Posts
I'm sure my son to hack any ANT+ system.
But the question is only a thought problem. Ride outdoors, knock yerself out. What I don't understand is why would waste the time on a dumb or irreverent topic.
But the question is only a thought problem. Ride outdoors, knock yerself out. What I don't understand is why would waste the time on a dumb or irreverent topic.
#13
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 422 Times
in
282 Posts
Know little of this or Zwift to fairly contribute.
Last Autumn I did demo the virtual CycleOps set up at a shop. More entertaining than expected and with riders online, made me laugh. The fellows in the shop were already bragging and messing with others as they told me had rigged a session with an e bike.
Of note: Apparently a virtual MTB has been released that requires steering around obstacles or your down.
Last Autumn I did demo the virtual CycleOps set up at a shop. More entertaining than expected and with riders online, made me laugh. The fellows in the shop were already bragging and messing with others as they told me had rigged a session with an e bike.
Of note: Apparently a virtual MTB has been released that requires steering around obstacles or your down.
#14
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,604
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10947 Post(s)
Liked 7,473 Times
in
4,181 Posts
Many people dont enjoy riding during the winter months.
Temps below 40 may not be fun.
Piercing wind may not be fun
Snow and surprise ice may not be fun.
Indoor trainers and spin classes are hardly new. Adding a video game to make indoor trainers less unbearable has been wildly successful.
Indoor trainers and swift isnt for everyone, but neither is bundling up like the StayPuft marshmallow man to go for ride.
Temps below 40 may not be fun.
Piercing wind may not be fun
Snow and surprise ice may not be fun.
Indoor trainers and spin classes are hardly new. Adding a video game to make indoor trainers less unbearable has been wildly successful.
Indoor trainers and swift isnt for everyone, but neither is bundling up like the StayPuft marshmallow man to go for ride.
Likes For mstateglfr:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
I used to Zwift. One thing I'll tell you.. real world race position does not feel comfortable in a trainer on Zwift. I required a more upright position. Take that for what's it's worth.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
#16
buy my bikes
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,799
Bikes: my very own customized GUNNAR CrossHairs
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 426 Times
in
248 Posts
Many people dont enjoy riding during the winter months.
Temps below 40 may not be fun.
Piercing wind may not be fun
Snow and surprise ice may not be fun.
Indoor trainers and swift isnt for everyone, but neither is bundling up like the StayPuft marshmallow man to go for ride.
Temps below 40 may not be fun.
Piercing wind may not be fun
Snow and surprise ice may not be fun.
Indoor trainers and swift isnt for everyone, but neither is bundling up like the StayPuft marshmallow man to go for ride.
Anyway, I think it's the PELOTON commercials that get on my nerves. I can't quite pin it down why it annoys me. Maybe the lack of self-motivation (which I lack myself, for things like, cleaning my work bench off.....) . I'll stop bugging people so the thread can get back on topic. cheers!
#17
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,409 Times
in
909 Posts
I don’t know Zwift...
.... or Kicker or the others.
But I’m having no problem being competitive in a studio class based on power at the rear wheel.
I’m the only one on C&V.
I have noticed wattage differences that appear to relate to crankset sizes. A guy out-powered me on a 3-hour ride, but I beat him by 1.5 miles, using a compact crankset. He was on a 53/39.
I have no idea what the numbers mean, but my butt hurts.
If you are racing indoors, it may depend on the time element, as many humans will suffer in the short term for perceived benefits. Head down in the drops will work, but you better have that saddle right or a leather scrotum.
Your road fit may not transfer over well, putting it mildly. My studio keeps a gallon bottle of chamois butter in each restroom.
As there is no wind drag indoors, the only benefits of the aero position, as in Triathlons, would be easing the arm load and isolating the legs to deliver power. If that is measured at the rear wheel, eliminating rocking helps a bit.
Somewhat, there is also a variable depending on how the “system” delivers resistance to simulate hills. On some, getting out of the saddle is unrealistic.
It would be fascinating if it wasn’t such a pain in the arse. Pretty sure it’s doing me some good. I definitely appreciate outdoor riding more.
But I’m having no problem being competitive in a studio class based on power at the rear wheel.
I’m the only one on C&V.
I have noticed wattage differences that appear to relate to crankset sizes. A guy out-powered me on a 3-hour ride, but I beat him by 1.5 miles, using a compact crankset. He was on a 53/39.
I have no idea what the numbers mean, but my butt hurts.
If you are racing indoors, it may depend on the time element, as many humans will suffer in the short term for perceived benefits. Head down in the drops will work, but you better have that saddle right or a leather scrotum.
Your road fit may not transfer over well, putting it mildly. My studio keeps a gallon bottle of chamois butter in each restroom.
As there is no wind drag indoors, the only benefits of the aero position, as in Triathlons, would be easing the arm load and isolating the legs to deliver power. If that is measured at the rear wheel, eliminating rocking helps a bit.
Somewhat, there is also a variable depending on how the “system” delivers resistance to simulate hills. On some, getting out of the saddle is unrealistic.
It would be fascinating if it wasn’t such a pain in the arse. Pretty sure it’s doing me some good. I definitely appreciate outdoor riding more.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 01-20-20 at 03:29 PM.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,433
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5887 Post(s)
Liked 3,469 Times
in
2,079 Posts
Yeah I just set up a saris smart trainer with Rouvy and I'm using my '92 Trek 950 with a trekking bar. It's comfy and what the heck do I care about being aero on a trainer,
#19
Hack
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,260
Bikes: TrueNorth CX bike, 88 Bianchi Strada (currently Sturmey'd), 90's Giant Innova (now with drop bars), Yess World Cup race BMX, Redline Proline Pro24 race BMX Cruiser
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 186 Times
in
130 Posts
[QUOTE=iab;21161608
And another thing, will a powermeter work with my steel cottered Magistroni crank?[/QUOTE]
Yup. Assuming that you can squeeze in a powertap wheel.
And another thing, will a powermeter work with my steel cottered Magistroni crank?[/QUOTE]
Yup. Assuming that you can squeeze in a powertap wheel.
#20
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 7,946
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4925 Post(s)
Liked 8,032 Times
in
3,799 Posts
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,678
Bikes: Garmin/Tacx Bike Smart
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
191 Posts
The Smokey Yanuk approach-
CeramicSpeed bearings, no contact seals.
CeramicSpeed as much as you can afford
might as well remove as many parasitic watts as possible.
with regard to position- what is currently used as the most efficient- keeping in mind that wind resistance is not a concern.
note that Andy Hampsten raised his bars to win in the Giro.
CeramicSpeed bearings, no contact seals.
CeramicSpeed as much as you can afford
might as well remove as many parasitic watts as possible.
with regard to position- what is currently used as the most efficient- keeping in mind that wind resistance is not a concern.
note that Andy Hampsten raised his bars to win in the Giro.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,678
Bikes: Garmin/Tacx Bike Smart
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
191 Posts
just dumb. go outside and ride a bike.
Tschuss![/QUOTE]
Sure, and when there's ice on the roads....have at it. And when you're stuck inside because of restrictions in place due to pandemic, then what? Honestly, I think you're completely missing the point. Zwift is not meant to replace road riding, which is still my preferred method of riding. But when you can't get on the road, or just want something different, like the workout modes, for example, Zwift is a really nice alternative. And for some people, like city-dwellers, it's a lot better than nothing.
Tschuss![/QUOTE]
Sure, and when there's ice on the roads....have at it. And when you're stuck inside because of restrictions in place due to pandemic, then what? Honestly, I think you're completely missing the point. Zwift is not meant to replace road riding, which is still my preferred method of riding. But when you can't get on the road, or just want something different, like the workout modes, for example, Zwift is a really nice alternative. And for some people, like city-dwellers, it's a lot better than nothing.