Effects of Sprint Training
11-24-15, 07:13 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Effects of Sprint Training
I bought a trainer and so far i'm loving it. I like to ride with Zwift. I did some FTP tests etc.
To improve for my sprinting power i also bought Sufferfest - Violator video. (Cycling Sprint Training Video : "Violator" | The Sufferfest)
So my question is how would this sprint training effect my climbing performance in a negative way? I don't have any experience with training and I'm scaring to loose my endurance.
To improve for my sprinting power i also bought Sufferfest - Violator video. (Cycling Sprint Training Video : "Violator" | The Sufferfest)
So my question is how would this sprint training effect my climbing performance in a negative way? I don't have any experience with training and I'm scaring to loose my endurance.
11-24-15, 08:31 PM
#2
Senior Member
I'm not super versed in physiology but generally speaking you're not going to lose "endurance" (meaning how long you can ride) by working on shorter efforts.
If you do only sprint type efforts then, yes, your sustainable power will probably suffer. Meaning if you're working on 30 second Zwift sprints (like for the various banners on the two courses) then you're not working on increasing your 20 or 60 minute sustainable power. Time trialing, or trying to better your orange jersey time, would suffer.
On the other hand I can go out and do a somewhat slow (to others) 3-4-5 hour ride pretty much at will; to me that's what "endurance" implies.
If you do shorter, more intense efforts, you generally figure out a way to make more power, if only for short periods of time. Utilized effectively that can translate to faster long rides.
If you do only sprint type efforts then, yes, your sustainable power will probably suffer. Meaning if you're working on 30 second Zwift sprints (like for the various banners on the two courses) then you're not working on increasing your 20 or 60 minute sustainable power. Time trialing, or trying to better your orange jersey time, would suffer.
On the other hand I can go out and do a somewhat slow (to others) 3-4-5 hour ride pretty much at will; to me that's what "endurance" implies.
If you do shorter, more intense efforts, you generally figure out a way to make more power, if only for short periods of time. Utilized effectively that can translate to faster long rides.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
11-24-15, 08:40 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm not super versed in physiology but generally speaking you're not going to lose "endurance" (meaning how long you can ride) by working on shorter efforts.
If you do only sprint type efforts then, yes, your sustainable power will probably suffer. Meaning if you're working on 30 second Zwift sprints (like for the various banners on the two courses) then you're not working on increasing your 20 or 60 minute sustainable power. Time trialing, or trying to better your orange jersey time, would suffer.
On the other hand I can go out and do a somewhat slow (to others) 3-4-5 hour ride pretty much at will; to me that's what "endurance" implies.
If you do shorter, more intense efforts, you generally figure out a way to make more power, if only for short periods of time. Utilized effectively that can translate to faster long rides.
If you do only sprint type efforts then, yes, your sustainable power will probably suffer. Meaning if you're working on 30 second Zwift sprints (like for the various banners on the two courses) then you're not working on increasing your 20 or 60 minute sustainable power. Time trialing, or trying to better your orange jersey time, would suffer.
On the other hand I can go out and do a somewhat slow (to others) 3-4-5 hour ride pretty much at will; to me that's what "endurance" implies.
If you do shorter, more intense efforts, you generally figure out a way to make more power, if only for short periods of time. Utilized effectively that can translate to faster long rides.
11-24-15, 08:56 PM
#4
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You sure can. Chuck a handful of sprints into longer rides, it doesn't add much fatigue at all and it helps with leg speed and fast twitch stuff immensely.
11-24-15, 09:20 PM
#5
Senior Member
I think you can work on both, to a limited extent (limited by things like genetics, time, etc). If you do only sprint work then you'll realistically lose some FTP.
However, for me, my sprint doesn't change much no matter what I do. It might change a bit but in the scheme of things the guys killing me will kill me, the ones not killing me won't kill me. Relative to my peers my sprint doesn't seem to change much.
I generally do JRA/easy rides, do a sprint or two when I feel motivated (up to about 25-30 seconds long, maybe 3-6 in an hour or two).
I found a big difference in racing fitness when I did VO2 Max intervals. My FTP is about 210w, my 5-8 minute long intervals were done at 217w to 248w. Sometimes I struggled to do just 220w, other times I could do 245w handily. I basically didn't do specific sprint work at all, but I had some solid results that season (which was actually this year, 2015).
However, for me, my sprint doesn't change much no matter what I do. It might change a bit but in the scheme of things the guys killing me will kill me, the ones not killing me won't kill me. Relative to my peers my sprint doesn't seem to change much.
I generally do JRA/easy rides, do a sprint or two when I feel motivated (up to about 25-30 seconds long, maybe 3-6 in an hour or two).
I found a big difference in racing fitness when I did VO2 Max intervals. My FTP is about 210w, my 5-8 minute long intervals were done at 217w to 248w. Sometimes I struggled to do just 220w, other times I could do 245w handily. I basically didn't do specific sprint work at all, but I had some solid results that season (which was actually this year, 2015).
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
11-30-15, 03:41 PM
#6
Senior Member
Sprints won't hurt FTP or endurance. Just be sure to incorporate it into your weekly microcycle.
Typically early on in the week when you're fresh. Such as Tuesday where I warm up for 45-60 minutes then do 8-15 sprints of different types (low/high-gear starts, leadouts, etc.). Then I go home and warm down for 30-minutes on the way.
Hillclimbs and long-intervals for FTP are done on Thurs/Friday. Endurance ride of 3-5 hours on Sunday. You'll find the increased strength from sprints (recruits unused muscle fibers) yields more efficient muscles and you can do those log rides faster, with less fatigue and faster recovery.
Typically early on in the week when you're fresh. Such as Tuesday where I warm up for 45-60 minutes then do 8-15 sprints of different types (low/high-gear starts, leadouts, etc.). Then I go home and warm down for 30-minutes on the way.
Hillclimbs and long-intervals for FTP are done on Thurs/Friday. Endurance ride of 3-5 hours on Sunday. You'll find the increased strength from sprints (recruits unused muscle fibers) yields more efficient muscles and you can do those log rides faster, with less fatigue and faster recovery.
12-02-15, 03:08 AM
#8
Senior Member
Except when you get close to the finish line and it's all about how much power you have above FTP. If you can only muster double your FTP in a sprint, the guys with 1000w+ over FTP will just walk away from you. I know a couple guys who can hit 40mph+ all by themselves. Even when you're on them for the last km like a tic, as soon as you try to get around them, you've only got a couple of seconds before you start fading... 42... 40..39...38... and they keep on going!
There's so many stories of beginners with dismal results their first year or two of racing. They never get dropped, finish every race, but just can seem to get any points. Coach cuts back their mileage by half, make them do their 1-minute intervals and sprints. Lo and behold, within a couple months they start winning races.
There's so many stories of beginners with dismal results their first year or two of racing. They never get dropped, finish every race, but just can seem to get any points. Coach cuts back their mileage by half, make them do their 1-minute intervals and sprints. Lo and behold, within a couple months they start winning races.
Last edited by DannoXYZ; 12-02-15 at 03:14 AM.
12-02-15, 07:43 AM
#9
Blast from the Past
The question is what are you developing? I don't think you can train yourself into one of the FTP + 1000 guys Danno is describing. For me it's an 1100W gap and I would gladly trade a little peak for more FTP. I think that the effective change and tactic he describes is more VO2 or speed endurance, more razor than sprint.
I would be curious if anyone has had success making significant gains in peak power? (outside the gym). At least for this sprinter that is a hard number to increase, more a function of rest than training. But I know I can get a heck of a lot better at 20sec, 30sec etc with higher FTP.
I would be curious if anyone has had success making significant gains in peak power? (outside the gym). At least for this sprinter that is a hard number to increase, more a function of rest than training. But I know I can get a heck of a lot better at 20sec, 30sec etc with higher FTP.
12-02-15, 08:18 AM
#10
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I increased my 1sec from 15.1 to 17.4 and 5sec from 13.8 to 15.8 just doing on the bike work. Really wasn't much more than I described earlier in the thread, threw in 8 or so sprints 1x/wk during the first hour or two of an easy endurance ride. This happened at the same time all other markers increased.
12-04-15, 07:40 PM
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Junior is sprint training (rowing) below.
Said it was the same as he does on the bike.
Said it would make him much stronger this year on the bike (we shall see).
Said he was great for 30sec or 3 hours.
Gym is still the primary place where sprint training is done.
It will have minimal effect on climbing - but will have some as you may get heavier.
I am increasingly convinced it (winning) is about the cardio / lactate level / and wee bit of what kind of power you have at the end - other than knowing what you are doing.
Said it was the same as he does on the bike.
Said it would make him much stronger this year on the bike (we shall see).
Said he was great for 30sec or 3 hours.
Gym is still the primary place where sprint training is done.
It will have minimal effect on climbing - but will have some as you may get heavier.
I am increasingly convinced it (winning) is about the cardio / lactate level / and wee bit of what kind of power you have at the end - other than knowing what you are doing.
Last edited by Doge; 12-04-15 at 07:48 PM.
12-07-15, 09:34 PM
#12
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To increase sprint power, you must increase strength. There is no good way around this. This does affect your ftp though... stronger generally means heavier, and increased time spent training sprint means less time training ftp. But there can be a balance; to be a competitive road racer in anything other than hilltop finishes and time trials means getting some sprint power. And you don't need the weight room to be a road sprinter. Heck, there are even track sprinters who don't lift...
Also, when you start sprinting, there are "noob gains" as you learn to really drive yourself into and past the redline. Condensing all your available energy into a 20 second burst is a skill. When I first started sprint training (for track), leaving everything on the track for a workout consisting of only 4-5 efforts separated by minutes of sitting/resting spread over an hour was a skill I needed to learn.
Also, when you start sprinting, there are "noob gains" as you learn to really drive yourself into and past the redline. Condensing all your available energy into a 20 second burst is a skill. When I first started sprint training (for track), leaving everything on the track for a workout consisting of only 4-5 efforts separated by minutes of sitting/resting spread over an hour was a skill I needed to learn.
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12-08-15, 08:34 AM
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To increase sprint power, you must increase strength. There is no good way around this. This does affect your ftp though... stronger generally means heavier, and increased time spent training sprint means less time training ftp. But there can be a balance; to be a competitive road racer in anything other than hilltop finishes and time trials means getting some sprint power. And you don't need the weight room to be a road sprinter. Heck, there are even track sprinters who don't lift...
Also, when you start sprinting, there are "noob gains" as you learn to really drive yourself into and past the redline. Condensing all your available energy into a 20 second burst is a skill. When I first started sprint training (for track), leaving everything on the track for a workout consisting of only 4-5 efforts separated by minutes of sitting/resting spread over an hour was a skill I needed to learn.
Also, when you start sprinting, there are "noob gains" as you learn to really drive yourself into and past the redline. Condensing all your available energy into a 20 second burst is a skill. When I first started sprint training (for track), leaving everything on the track for a workout consisting of only 4-5 efforts separated by minutes of sitting/resting spread over an hour was a skill I needed to learn.
As I've professed many times I am a pure sprinter and in embarking on a run to achieve certain goals for 2016 I've put some weight/size back on and am currently the biggest I've been in years but it is all aimed at getting where I want to be.
I rarely train my sprint but will be starting that shortly as I believe in addition to keirin and some other events for 2016 I may do sprint as well and will need to fire up those fibers.
TBH I see so many people focus on their final 15 seconds without putting the time into everything else that gets you to that final 15 seconds. Rarely can someone define themselves as a particular type of rider unless you've been racing for quite some time so taking a more general approach to training will net you the bigger overall gains.
If you are a newbie focus on everything rather than a sprint, having all that power without knowing how to use it (or go into a final corner wide open without touching the brakes) can be dangerous.
12-08-15, 10:13 AM
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It's great if you can put out 1500w for 5sec, but if you're never at the front of the race at the end to use it, who cares?
12-08-15, 04:16 PM
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i never train my sprint but it's fun when there's someone willing to drag race with you during a ride.
12-13-15, 05:31 PM
#16
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The only thing that might be a negative with sprint training versus climbing is the extra muscle mass.
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