Ok... judge my purchase... Gunnar w/ Ultegra
11-18-08, 10:46 AM
#26
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Vireo - something I've found, and I observe it in other cyclists, too. When I was younger and speed was more important than comfort, I'd use a smaller frame. Your frame measurement advice was what I would have used when I was 25 years old and racing.
Now - at 53 and a compromised neuro-skeletal system (more from injury/disease than age), I find myself migrating up to larger bikes. I'm just about exactly the measurements of the OP, and I'm migrating up to 58 and 59cm or 60 virtual TT frames if a sloping TT with longer head tube, or a 57-58 if more traditional geometry. Before that, I 'd use a 56-57 TT and 55-56 seat tube in a traditional geometry frame.
The older I get and less flexible and the more important comfort is to me, the more I want to ride in an upright position and the larger the frame I ride. Larger frame means I can get saddle more level with bars and that sorta thing.
It can't be calculated - it's more about what kind of riding one wants to do racing vs all day comfort, along with age and physical condition of rider. We don't all fit neatly into a formula.
Now - at 53 and a compromised neuro-skeletal system (more from injury/disease than age), I find myself migrating up to larger bikes. I'm just about exactly the measurements of the OP, and I'm migrating up to 58 and 59cm or 60 virtual TT frames if a sloping TT with longer head tube, or a 57-58 if more traditional geometry. Before that, I 'd use a 56-57 TT and 55-56 seat tube in a traditional geometry frame.
The older I get and less flexible and the more important comfort is to me, the more I want to ride in an upright position and the larger the frame I ride. Larger frame means I can get saddle more level with bars and that sorta thing.
It can't be calculated - it's more about what kind of riding one wants to do racing vs all day comfort, along with age and physical condition of rider. We don't all fit neatly into a formula.
BTW, I shouldn't have to state this on every fit I post to on BF but the calculations are trends. Until I have that person on a trainer and I've gone through an extensive questionnaire and measurements I WON'T RECOMMEND a bike to them. This is BF and there is a lot of information missing that I need to make a 100% recommendation.
Last edited by Vireo; 11-18-08 at 11:34 AM.
11-18-08, 10:47 AM
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11-18-08, 10:50 AM
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11-18-08, 10:56 AM
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That suggests that the frame is too large for you -- even more than I had thought. That is because, for your height, that is a rather long inseam, which suggests that you have a relatively short torso. Hence, you will be forced to use a very short stem in order to get the correct saddle-to-bar reach. Many people will opine that a short stem compromises handling, others will contend that it is no big deal, but one thing is for sure: going to such a short stem virtually always indicates that someone is trying to fit on a frame that has a top tube that is too long.
In other words, if you need to go with an 80mm stem to get the correct reach, you could have (and should have) bought a 56cm frame and used a 100mm stem, or even a (sorry, you don't want to hear this) 54cm frame with a 120mm stem. I would recommend the 56 frame with the 100mm stem.
In other words, if you need to go with an 80mm stem to get the correct reach, you could have (and should have) bought a 56cm frame and used a 100mm stem, or even a (sorry, you don't want to hear this) 54cm frame with a 120mm stem. I would recommend the 56 frame with the 100mm stem.
11-18-08, 10:56 AM
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OP: You need to get fitting help from someone who knows what they are doing. You adjust saddle fore-aft to position yourself over the pedals properly, NOT to adjust the reach to the handlebar. You need to start with the correct saddle position, THEN choose a new stem length.
If, when you get the saddle properly positioned, you really do need a shorter stem, then you probably are still on a bike that is too large -- Vireo will be right, a 56 will be better. I have a longer torso than you by a couple inches and I would be on a 58 if I had a Gunnar, so you probably need the smaller frame. But it's too late for that.
PS: You can ignore pretty much everything Jynx wrote -- it's all nonsense. He either misunderstands Vireo's comments (e.g., Vireo is just stating that your cassette is probably not 11-24, as no one makes a standard cassette in that size), or is just plain wrong (e.g., about the fit info, the position of the shifters, etc.).
If, when you get the saddle properly positioned, you really do need a shorter stem, then you probably are still on a bike that is too large -- Vireo will be right, a 56 will be better. I have a longer torso than you by a couple inches and I would be on a 58 if I had a Gunnar, so you probably need the smaller frame. But it's too late for that.
PS: You can ignore pretty much everything Jynx wrote -- it's all nonsense. He either misunderstands Vireo's comments (e.g., Vireo is just stating that your cassette is probably not 11-24, as no one makes a standard cassette in that size), or is just plain wrong (e.g., about the fit info, the position of the shifters, etc.).
OP-- Once you do that post again and tell us your findings. Or better yet post pics with hands on tops, on the hoods and in the drops.
11-18-08, 11:01 AM
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With a smaller frame I would have been required to have a bigger drop to the handlebars. This was the situation on my 54cm bike and I wished that I had a bigger bike so that I wouldn't have such a large drop.
There are always going to be compromises. I chose based on what I have already experienced.
There are always going to be compromises. I chose based on what I have already experienced.
11-18-08, 11:17 AM
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Well I will walk you through the math (you have yet to give us your torso measurement) I have to derive it by making an assumption for your neck and head.
IF your Total Height is .....71in
IF your inseam is............. 35.5in
Then that leaves ....35.5in Trunk (Crotch to Sternum notch) and Neck and Head (from Sternum notch to top of head)
Assumption head and neck subtract....13inch
That leaves 22.5 inches (Sternum Notch to Crotch) converted to cm equals 57cm.
Since bike measurements are in cms. I eventually have to convert your torso measurement to cms and then look for a TT that fits that measurement.
Your torso (based on measurements you provided) is 57cm which is really short for someone 5'11 (I am 5'9" and my torso 59cm) IF based on the assumption that your head and neck measure the typical 12-13 inches then your torso is 57cm. That means your torso is 2cm less than mine and I WOULD NEVER RIDE A 58CM.
Ok you have a long inseam. Sizing the bike to your inseam then ends up giving you too long of a top tube. That's why if you look at a fit chart and look at seat tubes for a 35.5 inseam you will find 58cm bikes as a recommendation. But based on your torso that bike would be too big for you--- like this one.
Something about your measurements is off. Please have SOMEONE measure you then report back. DO NOT measure yourself it will not be as accurate.
IF your Total Height is .....71in
IF your inseam is............. 35.5in
Then that leaves ....35.5in Trunk (Crotch to Sternum notch) and Neck and Head (from Sternum notch to top of head)
Assumption head and neck subtract....13inch
That leaves 22.5 inches (Sternum Notch to Crotch) converted to cm equals 57cm.
Since bike measurements are in cms. I eventually have to convert your torso measurement to cms and then look for a TT that fits that measurement.
Your torso (based on measurements you provided) is 57cm which is really short for someone 5'11 (I am 5'9" and my torso 59cm) IF based on the assumption that your head and neck measure the typical 12-13 inches then your torso is 57cm. That means your torso is 2cm less than mine and I WOULD NEVER RIDE A 58CM.
Ok you have a long inseam. Sizing the bike to your inseam then ends up giving you too long of a top tube. That's why if you look at a fit chart and look at seat tubes for a 35.5 inseam you will find 58cm bikes as a recommendation. But based on your torso that bike would be too big for you--- like this one.
Something about your measurements is off. Please have SOMEONE measure you then report back. DO NOT measure yourself it will not be as accurate.
11-18-08, 11:18 AM
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Post a pic of you on the bike and I'd be happy to chime with my useless opinions.
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11-18-08, 11:21 AM
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With a smaller frame I would have been required to have a bigger drop to the handlebars. This was the situation on my 54cm bike and I wished that I had a bigger bike so that I wouldn't have such a large drop.
There are always going to be compromises. I chose based on what I have already experienced.
There are always going to be compromises. I chose based on what I have already experienced.
Then you chose correctly ignore me.
Last edited by Vireo; 11-18-08 at 11:37 AM.
11-18-08, 11:40 AM
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I have had wrist problems and also w/ the 54cm frame my neck got sore on long, fast rides where I was concerned about vehicle traffic and looking up a lot... I made that measurement with a measuring tape by myself so its possible that its wrong... I did feel like my legs were the right size for the 58cm frame though.
11-18-08, 11:44 AM
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I have had wrist problems and also w/ the 54cm frame my neck got sore on long, fast rides where I was concerned about vehicle traffic and looking up a lot... I made that measurement with a measuring tape by myself so its possible that its wrong... I did feel like my legs were the right size for the 58cm frame though.
Tsk Tsk
All of this would have and should be discussed with your fitter during your interview. It also should have been in your original post.
11-18-08, 06:33 PM
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As a fan of Gunnar frames it saddens me to say this, but maybe you should sell the frame and buy one that will fit you properly. Even an older frame like that (in good condition?) should be sellable for enough to get you a (somewhat less sweet) new one.
11-18-08, 08:35 PM
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that suggests that the frame is too large for you -- even more than i had thought. That is because, for your height, that is a rather long inseam, which suggests that you have a relatively short torso. Hence, you will be forced to use a very short stem in order to get the correct saddle-to-bar reach. Many people will opine that a short stem compromises handling, others will contend that it is no big deal, but one thing is for sure: Going to such a short stem virtually always indicates that someone is trying to fit on a frame that has a top tube that is too long.
In other words, if you need to go with an 80mm stem to get the correct reach, you could have (and should have) bought a 56cm frame and used a 100mm stem, or even a (sorry, you don't want to hear this) 54cm frame with a 120mm stem. i would recommend the 56 frame with the 100mm stem.
In other words, if you need to go with an 80mm stem to get the correct reach, you could have (and should have) bought a 56cm frame and used a 100mm stem, or even a (sorry, you don't want to hear this) 54cm frame with a 120mm stem. i would recommend the 56 frame with the 100mm stem.
11-18-08, 08:46 PM
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This math is more than correct. Did you even look at it? Look at it again it will make sense. The only assumption I made was neck and head of 13 inches- pretty typical and measured from sternum notch to top of head.
I looked at it. "24 torso or trunk convert to cm. 24x2.54= 60.9cm" How does 60.9cm torso convert to a frame size? Where is this chart showing this cm number corresponding to a frame size?
Should-- as in Shimano only makes 11-23 or 12-23 or 12-25. So the question was 11-24 is that homemade? Read what was posted.
My misunderstanding.
Wrong. I also didn't say a stem was excessively long. I said most fits are 90-110. Did you even read my post? I don't even have to justify my answer.
Most fits have a stem 110mm to 130mm. Under 110mm is going to the short side.
Again you are not reading posts? I said leave bars where they are BUT move the shifter WAY up not "all the way up" as you say. I agree with you that the bars are not the type of bars where they would be optimal but they are too low for someone who should be on a 56cm and is riding a 58 (wrong size) and a 110 stem AND has the shifter even further down.
I don't agree they should be moved way up. maybe a little bit but everyone has different preferences for bar setups.
I looked at it. "24 torso or trunk convert to cm. 24x2.54= 60.9cm" How does 60.9cm torso convert to a frame size? Where is this chart showing this cm number corresponding to a frame size?
Should-- as in Shimano only makes 11-23 or 12-23 or 12-25. So the question was 11-24 is that homemade? Read what was posted.
My misunderstanding.
Wrong. I also didn't say a stem was excessively long. I said most fits are 90-110. Did you even read my post? I don't even have to justify my answer.
Most fits have a stem 110mm to 130mm. Under 110mm is going to the short side.
Again you are not reading posts? I said leave bars where they are BUT move the shifter WAY up not "all the way up" as you say. I agree with you that the bars are not the type of bars where they would be optimal but they are too low for someone who should be on a 56cm and is riding a 58 (wrong size) and a 110 stem AND has the shifter even further down.
I don't agree they should be moved way up. maybe a little bit but everyone has different preferences for bar setups.
No worries.
I disagree with you on stem size. So we can agree to disagree.
Agreed on bar and shifters. I would change those bars if it were my bike to eliminate the limitations of where I NEED to place the shifters opposed to where I WANT to place them.
11-18-08, 09:20 PM
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I don't even know where to start.
Let's start with your body.
5'11" equals...... 71 inches
subtract inseam...34 inches
Leaves ....................37 inches
subtract neck and head......13 inches
Leaves you with a ........24 torso or trunk convert to cm. 24x2.54= 60.9cm
You really should be on a 56cm NOT a 58cm. based on the measurements you provided.
Next
11-24? Is that home made. Should be 11-23 , 12-23 or 12-25
Next
the 110 stem exasperates the wrong size bike by making it even longer and moving the saddle all the way forward should give you another clue. If the bike was even close to the right size you could get away with a 110 with the saddle just slightly moved forward. 90mm-110mm stems are "typical" stems for the correct fitting bike. Yes I know "you have a friend that..." Yes we all know someone that rides a 140cm and a 70cm but that doesn't make it right for everyone else.
Next
The reach to the shifters must be agonizing. MOVE those shifter WAY up. The bars are fine where they are the drops are parallel to the deck.
Next
Armadillo tires ride like crap. I mean really bad. The only saving grace is that being 38's there is a lot of air you are riding on. "Normal" tires will be fine. You're only commuting 7 miles. Just leave 5 minutes earlier if you are worried about flatting.
and finally
Ignore everything I said and in the end do what ever makes you HAPPY!!
Let's start with your body.
5'11" equals...... 71 inches
subtract inseam...34 inches
Leaves ....................37 inches
subtract neck and head......13 inches
Leaves you with a ........24 torso or trunk convert to cm. 24x2.54= 60.9cm
You really should be on a 56cm NOT a 58cm. based on the measurements you provided.
Next
11-24? Is that home made. Should be 11-23 , 12-23 or 12-25
Next
the 110 stem exasperates the wrong size bike by making it even longer and moving the saddle all the way forward should give you another clue. If the bike was even close to the right size you could get away with a 110 with the saddle just slightly moved forward. 90mm-110mm stems are "typical" stems for the correct fitting bike. Yes I know "you have a friend that..." Yes we all know someone that rides a 140cm and a 70cm but that doesn't make it right for everyone else.
Next
The reach to the shifters must be agonizing. MOVE those shifter WAY up. The bars are fine where they are the drops are parallel to the deck.
Next
Armadillo tires ride like crap. I mean really bad. The only saving grace is that being 38's there is a lot of air you are riding on. "Normal" tires will be fine. You're only commuting 7 miles. Just leave 5 minutes earlier if you are worried about flatting.
and finally
Ignore everything I said and in the end do what ever makes you HAPPY!!
