tcs

Oh my, the thought of someone setting out on a cycle tour without competence in basic bike mechanics! Well, perhaps they'll stick to those complete package tours that have follow vans and mechanics (NTTAWWT).

sstorkel

In my case, when I go into one of the many bike shops in my area I expect to find:

- Employees who know less about their products than I do
- Employees who think that a mountain bike is the only bike worth owning
- Generic bicycle tubes priced at, literally, $9/ea and similarly outrageous mark-up on everything else
- A 2-4 week wait for service for even the most minor service
- A 5-15 minute wait at an unattended cash register before someone notices that I want to check-out
- A surly attitude if I ask for anything out of the ordinary (ex: special-order a product they don't stock, a price that's 20% more than on-line rather than 2X more)

With "customer service" like this is it any wonder that I do all of my own maintenance and buy products over the Internet? Lower prices, less hassle, better hours, and everything shows up right on my doorstep...

JonnyL

Where's the benefit of buying a bike from a bike shop if you have to order it? They don't stock it so you can't try it out prior to purchase. Maybe I'm missing something here.

If Surly are doing this to help the bike shops it's admirable in one sense but ultimately I don't see how it's helping the actual person who'll end up owning the bike, you know, the one who'll lay down his or her hard earned to actual buy the dam thing.

In my limited experience, a lot of bike shops seem to abuse their position. I hate the snobbery involved in dealing with the vast majority of bike shop employees. I'm happy with the bike shop I use now, fantastic people, but it was a painful experience going round the shops until I finally found one where they'd treat you with something other than disdain. Consequently, they get my business.

Surly, great name for a bike manufacturer, better name for a bike store.

indyfabz

Yep. Trophy Bikes in Philadelphia. They sell a lot of Surlys, including LHTs, Bromptons and Brooks Saddles. Racks and panniers, too, including Tubus and Ortliebs. All of their mechanics ride. Some race. At least one tours. One guy who has worked there in the past has built frames out of bamboo that grows wild just outside of the city.

The owner knows what it's like to have to deal with chiselers. One infamous guy has come into the shop with his iPhone, flahsed it in the owner's face and said "Look. I can get XYZ on line for X$. Can you match that price?" It's often impossible for him to do so. Then again, he got me a SRAM Force gruppo for slightly less than what Colorado Cyclists was selling it for before shipping. Our loyalty over the years (including 5 bikes) has paid dividends in the form of quick service (sometimes free) and discounted parts.

JonnyL

Sounds like a good store. And if you're after a Surly that's the type of place you want to go, somewhere that stocks and builds them. But if you're not that lucky and you don't have a store that regularly stocks a particular bike, not just Surlys for that matter, where's the advantage of having to physically go to a store to oder a frame or bike you've not tried out v doing the same online?

Must checkout Trophy next time I'm in Philly.

aroundoz

That sounds like a great shop and I wouldn't mind paying a bit more than I would online just to help them out. There is something to be said about the social factor of a good bike shop whose employees embrace your kind of riding which for a lot of us is touring and commuting. I bet you spend as much time down there just visiting than you do buying parts. There are a couple in Seattle like this that I know of. You walk in and you mostly see a lot of Surly, Salsa and other branded steel frames and bikes looking for a good home. Other shops you walk into and you pass out from carbon fiber inhalation.

There is something to be said for going through a shop, you can trust, even if it is just for a frame. I have ordered several frames where the BB needs chasing or headtube needs facing and these are tools I could never justify owning. The shop should do this for you at no extra charge. If you bought it online, having to pay for this will negate your savings.

So I guess depending on where you live, Surly's decision could really suck for you. If you l live in a commuter friendly cities where shops cater to tourists and commuters and you are able to test ride the correct size before buying, it's not that big of a deal.

fietsbob

but such as bikes direct is not carrying a lifetime frame warrantee, like Trek.
and a dealer network means you have help, available , at any of them


Note, you people can still order the QBP frames , and pick your own parts.

going on a tour, you ought to be able to do your own work anyhow..

If you are not doing a loop out of your front door,
you are going to have to tear it down,
and reassemble it at airport arrival carousels, anyhow.

Schwinnrider

My LBS used to be great. It's in a small town, but directly on the Withalcoochee Trail, so lots of cycle traffic. At one time, they carried Trek, Raleigh, Giant, Waterford, Gunnar, Litespeed, Co-Motion, Bacchetta recuments, Terra Trike, and probably some I've forgotten. Ownership changed, and now all they carry is Trek. Last time I went in, the floor stock was 90 percent low end Trek hybrids, and all the shop staff seemed bored. They didn't get to deal with anything interesting, just low end hybrids all day.

It's sad.

Rob_E

That's pretty much how I feel. When I decided to buy my first new bike (as opposed the 2nd hand, take-what-I-can-find bikes I've ridden all of my life), I shopped around the local bike shops and ended up with a bike that didn't fit my riding style and didn't fit me. Now the first part I take responsibility for, because I didn't really know what I wanted, but sizing could have been done better. Although the bike ended up coming from REI, who doesn't deal exclusively in bikes, so I'm sure that was part of the problem, but then REI is the only shop in the area that had a bike I thought I'd like to ride.

When I decided the bike I had didn't suit me, I did my own research on-line, figured out what I wanted and what was available, and decided on the Long Haul Trucker. While I mulling it over, I went to the bike shop where we bought my wife's bike, which she loves, and who's mechanics I like, even though I do most of my own work. They said that they could order a Surly, but they don't keep them in stock, and, as a result, if they did order one, it would require that I pay upfront, site unseen, and barring damage, would be required to take the bike that was delivered. I can understand their policy: they don't want to get stuck with bikes they don't stock, but with no options for a test ride or the ability to figure out ahead of time which frame fit me, I was unsure of what the bike shop was actually bringing to the table.

I took my own measurements, made some educated guesses as to my frame size, tested friend's bike that was a size or two higher than the size I was considering, which gave me a better idea of my size, and ordered it myself. I ordered a frame, so the new restrictions still wouldn't affect me, but it does seem odd that a bike that should arrive with more parts already assembled would require more attention from a mechanic.

If Surly is trying to limit their liability or offload their support to the LBS, that's fine. I hope it doesn't hurt their bottom line. But if their just trying to force their customers to support the LBS, I think that's a mistake. I know the internet has hurt LBS's, just like it's hurt a lot of brick and mortar stores. I don't want to see them go under, but the solution isn't going to be forcing people to patronize them, it's going to be evolving the service model to something sustainable in a new climate. I like almost all the area shop people I have met, but service has been very hit or miss. The biggest issue has been turn-around time. That's what inspired me to learn how to do my own maintenance, and that's what gave me the confidence to build up my own bike from a frame. So I guess in their own way, the LBS encouraged me to rely more on the internet, although I'm sure that was not their intention.

I don't think of myself as anti-LBS, but learning how to do my own work has been very rewarding, and it has kept me going many times when a fairly simple repair would have meant that my bike had to spend a week in the shop. It also meant that I could bargain shop for components and end up with a bike that I would never have been able to afford had I just walked into the LBS with a part list.

I'm not a bike mechanic. I've made some rookie mistakes, and I've learned and moved on. The local shop might not have made the mistakes I have, but I also wouldn't have learned anything. And I've seen enough to know that having "bike mechanic" on your resume does not exempt you from mistakes, so it's a shame that Surly is pushing people into the shops whether they want to go or not. But I seem to like Surly's frames far more then their choice of components, so until they apply this policy to frames, I guess I'm safe.

Terry66

Posted on Surly's website today

https://surlybikes.com/blog/post/the_way_we_do_things

GP

The shop closest to me stocks a bunch of LHTs and CCs and maybe 2-5 other Surlys. They sell the LHT as a do everything commuter tourer ride around town bike. But it's a small shop that's been in business for over 30 years and doesn't even try to compete with the carbon fiber road bike crowd.

JonnyL

Be interesting to see how it impacts their sales over the next 12 months. I wonder if other companies will benefit from this decision or follow suit?

As for bike assembly and maintenance, it's something we all should learn, at least the basics. Plus, you sometimes have to ask yourself where do you think those fresh faced young 'bike mechanics' in the local store learned their trade. Not a knock on anyone but I'm guessing most are self taught, trial and error type guys which puts a lot of them on equal footing with a lot of people out there riding.

fietsbob

Except now there's UBI, bikeschool.com

But they let the tifosi attend too..

Dahon.Steve

I suspect dealers were going to drop the Surly frames and bikes if online sales didn't stop. I know a couple of dealers in the New York City area that stopped carrying Surly frames because it was cheaper to get them online.

CCrew

I know a few that were totally ticked off at Salsa when QBP did the "stocking dealer" thing. Places that sold the ocassional Salsa frame were essentially locked out. It'll be interesting to see if that's the next step for Surly.

Bekologist

i have a feeling that isn't working out for Surly's parent company as much as they would like; perhaps i am mistaken. i doubt they would apply stocking restrictions to Surly bikes and frames.

and a slight correction on the bike box info - only some boxes say qualified mechanic required. Some boxes, many omit this obvious step about bike assembly, provide a list of the tools required, and come with assembly instructions.

that still doesn't mean the average american can take a mass produced modern derailleur bike out of its factory box and get it adjusted safely.

Surly's blogpost about the subject seems pretty straightforward.

tiretread

I have no issues supporting a LBS (pending they are worthy of having me as a customer), but I like having the option of being able to research on my own and figure out what I want, and then buy it. I hope this works out for Surly as I really like their product line.

JacktheFlash

My LBS is a joke. If it is not Trek or Bontrager they do not want to hear it. I had 8 shops in my area price a LHT for me. The closest one of course gets out the Trek catalog, so I left. I got a complete build for $1025 at an LBS 2 1/2 hours from me. A mom and pop shop, the build was first class. I was completely satisfied. It took a tank of gas and half a day of driving but I have no regrets. JensonUSA was no bargain as their price on the LHT was $175 more than I paid. So no big deal either way for me. QBP does as they please.

campylover

I raced in the 80's(road) and Mountain in the 90's. I shopped a lot of stores and I would get a good vibe or bad about them. Some were stocked with all the new stuff but serviced sucked. It took me awhile to find a good shop. It was small but would order stuff for you and gave great service.But it wasn't local. So the LBS might not be the best choice for someone but keep looking around, it might be a longer trip,but worth it.But then there is always mail order if you have the tools. Also touring cyclist should know their bike and be able to fix it on the road.Shop ebay!(lots of shops use it now)

JonnyL

I going to stick my neck out here and say there's probably only a very small percentage of bike shop mechanics with any kind of formal training.

campylover

Not every mechanic went to school but receive on the job training from the older "pros". I has 26 years in Army Aviation and always did my own work. Helped me get the job at the shop with more pay than the "monkey" as one poster called them did. I have been to Specialized University (shop payed for it) We learned the BG fit system, etc. Not all staff went . but we trained the rest on what we learned. Some 16 year old kid is not going to build your S-Works.

indyfabz

Not necessarily. There is often the option of shipping to a shop located at the start of the tour and having the shop reassemble it. Because of the rediculous bike charge imposed by many (if not most) airlines, we have actually broke even or saved money going this route. For example, when we flew to Montana last year, United wanted $100 each way per bike. Shipping, reassembly and tuning cost about the same amount per bike. Even if you pay a few dollars more, the convenience is worth it. You land, show up at the shop and ride out.

Two years ago we saved a considereable amount of money going this route. We flew Delta (our only realistic option) to Montana. Delta wanted something like $175/bike. Shipping and reassembly was again about $100/bike.

And since both were loop tours, the shops held our boxes for us free of charge.

Mithrandir

Is that hyperbole or is that grounded in experience?

I forgot to specify to my bike shop when they built my last wheel that I wanted Schraeder, so I ended up with Presta. At first I was pissed because I'd never seen one before and "different" scared me. But rather than drilling the rim I just went ahead and bought some presta tubes. Now, I'm a smart-ish guy, but those things were not difficult to figure out in any sense of the word, and I have a hard time trying to wrap my head around the concept of a presta valve actually confusing anyone. Within a few seconds of using it I already decided I wanted to switch from scraeder to presta for good.

campylover

If I had a nickle for everyone that came in the shop asking how to use a Presta valve, I would be riding a Rivendel! I always showed the buyer how to use a presta valve on the bikes I sold.

Bekologist

...and there you go, mithrandir. My experience as well.

"I can't get the air in the tires. I think this pump is broken" is pretty par for the course.