As of Nov 1 No more mail order Surly's...
10-28-11, 12:58 PM
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As of Nov 1 No more mail order Surly's...
QBP Put the kibosh on dealers selling complete Surly bikes via mail order effective Nov 1, 2011. Frames, parts, etc still available. No word on whether they're going to use the Salsa model now where you have to be a stocking dealer to sell their frames.
Just thought I'd throw that informative tidbit out.
"That means that to purchase a Surly complete bike, you'll need to visit a retail location and take delivery of a fully assembled, ready-to-ride bike."
Just thought I'd throw that informative tidbit out.
"That means that to purchase a Surly complete bike, you'll need to visit a retail location and take delivery of a fully assembled, ready-to-ride bike."
10-28-11, 01:18 PM
#2
Slow Rider
Just got an email message from Jenson stating Surly's decision not to sell complete bikes on-line. This decision doesn't seem to make financial sense for Surly; I suppose it is meant to support local bike shops, but no doubt it will likely hurt sales.
10-28-11, 01:24 PM
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Surly is part of QBP and they want to keep the LBS in business. On-line sales are great and prices are good(minus shipping) but to have a good LBS to go to is sometimes worth the extra cost.
10-28-11, 02:31 PM
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So what? In my surfing, I haven't found any mail order sources that undercut Surly's MSRP. It sounds like it'll hurt the mail order houses worse than anybody else. It makes sense in a way, because Surly won't have to worry about liability or warranty claims for poorly assembled mail-order bikes; now you've got the LBS (and their insurance) in the way.
10-28-11, 02:46 PM
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Scared me. I'm getting fitted for an LHT tomorrow and I doubt the LBS will be able to order by November 1st. But I'm going with a 100% custom build to fit my riding style, so I'd be getting the frame anyway. Whew.
10-28-11, 03:04 PM
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Legally, complete bikes in a box must be assembled by a bike mechanic for the purchaser as far as i can tell from US consumer product protection laws and every bike box I've ever seen, which is 1000's of them, maybe tens of thousands.
CPSC has some standards for complete bikes..... its, you know, a safety thing. I'm not clear how Bikes Direct gets away with it, almost EVERY Bikes Direct bike i've seen has been messed up by the end consumer when they attempt to 'just put it together, how tough can it be?'
Surly not allowing complete bike mail order sales is quite commonsense, actually.
The trickledown to the LBS is quite nice too, i don't even work in a bike shop and i still think its great.
support your local. its like buying produce from your local farmers market.
CPSC has some standards for complete bikes..... its, you know, a safety thing. I'm not clear how Bikes Direct gets away with it, almost EVERY Bikes Direct bike i've seen has been messed up by the end consumer when they attempt to 'just put it together, how tough can it be?'
Surly not allowing complete bike mail order sales is quite commonsense, actually.
The trickledown to the LBS is quite nice too, i don't even work in a bike shop and i still think its great.
support your local. its like buying produce from your local farmers market.
Last edited by Bekologist; 10-28-11 at 06:13 PM.
10-28-11, 05:52 PM
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Which is great in theory until you live in an area or a country without a good bike shop. And by that logic, should we be fine with the idea that in the future, component manufacturers will refuse to sell us tires, brakes, and handlebars online because improper installation is a liability? I'm no master mechanic, but before I was into bicycles I was doing most of the maintenance on my cars and motorcycles--bikes are quite simple, inexpensive, and enjoyable to work on in comparison. I don't doubt at all that some consumers will try to do work themselves when they shouldn't have, but in the end being stupid should hurt, and those instances should serve as a cautionary tale to all rather than a cash cow for the dumb ones.
10-28-11, 06:09 PM
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well, thats not the way consumer protection safety standards work in the US (at least at the present time! 
) but i feel your pain.
) but i feel your pain.
10-28-11, 07:03 PM
#9
Cycle Year Round
CPSC regulations:
16 CFR 1512 Regulations for Bicycles, Subpart A,
Sec. 1512.3 Requirements in general.
Any bicycle subject to the regulations in this part shall meet the requirements of this part in the condition to which it is offered for sale to consumers; any bicycle offered for sale to consumers in disassembled or partially assembled condition shall meet these requirements after assembly according to the manufacturer's instructions. For the purpose of compliance with this part, where the metric and English units are not equal due to the conversion process the less stringent requirement will prevail.
16 CFR 1512 Regulations for Bicycles, Subpart A,
Sec. 1512.3 Requirements in general.
Any bicycle subject to the regulations in this part shall meet the requirements of this part in the condition to which it is offered for sale to consumers; any bicycle offered for sale to consumers in disassembled or partially assembled condition shall meet these requirements after assembly according to the manufacturer's instructions. For the purpose of compliance with this part, where the metric and English units are not equal due to the conversion process the less stringent requirement will prevail.
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10-28-11, 07:43 PM
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Legally, complete bikes in a box must be assembled by a bike mechanic for the purchaser as far as i can tell from US consumer product protection laws and every bike box I've ever seen, which is 1000's of them, maybe tens of thousands.
CPSC has some standards for complete bikes..... its, you know, a safety thing. I'm not clear how Bikes Direct gets away with it, almost EVERY Bikes Direct bike i've seen has been messed up by the end consumer when they attempt to 'just put it together, how tough can it be?'
Surly not allowing complete bike mail order sales is quite commonsense, actually.
The trickledown to the LBS is quite nice too, i don't even work in a bike shop and i still think its great.
support your local. its like buying produce from your local farmers market.
CPSC has some standards for complete bikes..... its, you know, a safety thing. I'm not clear how Bikes Direct gets away with it, almost EVERY Bikes Direct bike i've seen has been messed up by the end consumer when they attempt to 'just put it together, how tough can it be?'
Surly not allowing complete bike mail order sales is quite commonsense, actually.
The trickledown to the LBS is quite nice too, i don't even work in a bike shop and i still think its great.
support your local. its like buying produce from your local farmers market.
10-28-11, 08:11 PM
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I understand this move. QBP is doing this to keep the LBS in business. After all, how many people buy just a bike or frameset from the bike shop? If you get 'em in the shop to buy the bike or frameset, they'll likely buy something else, too. Bottle cages, bottles, cables, etc...
10-28-11, 08:38 PM
#12
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I probably wasn't going to buy a Surly anyway, but I'm certainly not going to drive 35 miles to the nearest dealer that sells the Long Haul Trucker (note: I said sells; they don't actually have any in stock) to place an order for one. There are closer dealers who could order one from QBP, but I suspect they'd be much more interested in selling a bike off the showroom floor and ordering would end up being a hassle.
10-29-11, 01:54 AM
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Sure... if you want to sell fewer bikes.
I probably wasn't going to buy a Surly anyway, but I'm certainly not going to drive 35 miles to the nearest dealer that sells the Long Haul Trucker (note: I said sells; they don't actually have any in stock) to place an order for one. There are closer dealers who could order one from QBP, but I suspect they'd be much more interested in selling a bike off the showroom floor and ordering would end up being a hassle.
I probably wasn't going to buy a Surly anyway, but I'm certainly not going to drive 35 miles to the nearest dealer that sells the Long Haul Trucker (note: I said sells; they don't actually have any in stock) to place an order for one. There are closer dealers who could order one from QBP, but I suspect they'd be much more interested in selling a bike off the showroom floor and ordering would end up being a hassle.
I don't think any bike dealer is going to give you a hard time about ordering a 1200 dollar bicycle. Money is money.
10-29-11, 06:23 AM
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without digging too deep to dispell the liberatarian aspirations of the flat earth crowd among us,
there's both CPSC safety regulations and voluntary industry standards that require most modern adult bikes to be assembled by competent bicycle mechanics.
Bikes sold partially assembled must be able to be put together by average adults......that really only leaves cheap kids bikes in nearly completed state legally being sold partially assembled.
Bikes with derailleurs and assorted torque specs for bolts are bikes that do not meet standards for self-assembly in my estimation of the average intelligence of the average adult dealing with modern bike equipment.
hence, the voluntary standards most every bona fide bike manufacturer follows in this country.
the CPSC does regulate and restrict partially assembled bike sales to those that can be assembled by average adults.
the major manufacturers follow this regulation, and have voluntary standards most bike manufacturers adhere to as well.
Fancy bikes being sold by Bikes Direct to the consumer totally work around the CPSC regulations and puts a lot of unsafe bikes on the road because, lets face it, an average adult cannot put together, tune and torque a modern adult derailleur geared bike from a box.
Bikes direct bikes arrive at bike shops in deplorable condition every day of the year. its almost an embarassing moment for the customer, they roll in with a bike assembled unsafe at any speed, and hope the shop can just 'tune it up' a little.
There's no foul in Surly prohibiting dealers from mail order sales of "a surly in a box"; it makes sense for both QBP and the consumer.
there's both CPSC safety regulations and voluntary industry standards that require most modern adult bikes to be assembled by competent bicycle mechanics.
Bikes sold partially assembled must be able to be put together by average adults......that really only leaves cheap kids bikes in nearly completed state legally being sold partially assembled.
Bikes with derailleurs and assorted torque specs for bolts are bikes that do not meet standards for self-assembly in my estimation of the average intelligence of the average adult dealing with modern bike equipment.
hence, the voluntary standards most every bona fide bike manufacturer follows in this country.
the CPSC does regulate and restrict partially assembled bike sales to those that can be assembled by average adults.
the major manufacturers follow this regulation, and have voluntary standards most bike manufacturers adhere to as well.
Fancy bikes being sold by Bikes Direct to the consumer totally work around the CPSC regulations and puts a lot of unsafe bikes on the road because, lets face it, an average adult cannot put together, tune and torque a modern adult derailleur geared bike from a box.
Bikes direct bikes arrive at bike shops in deplorable condition every day of the year. its almost an embarassing moment for the customer, they roll in with a bike assembled unsafe at any speed, and hope the shop can just 'tune it up' a little.
There's no foul in Surly prohibiting dealers from mail order sales of "a surly in a box"; it makes sense for both QBP and the consumer.
Last edited by Bekologist; 10-29-11 at 08:02 AM.
10-29-11, 09:51 AM
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without digging too deep to dispell the liberatarian aspirations of the flat earth crowd among us,
there's both CPSC safety regulations and voluntary industry standards that require most modern adult bikes to be assembled by competent bicycle mechanics.
Bikes sold partially assembled must be able to be put together by average adults......that really only leaves cheap kids bikes in nearly completed state legally being sold partially assembled.
Bikes with derailleurs and assorted torque specs for bolts are bikes that do not meet standards for self-assembly in my estimation of the average intelligence of the average adult dealing with modern bike equipment.
hence, the voluntary standards most every bona fide bike manufacturer follows in this country.
the CPSC does regulate and restrict partially assembled bike sales to those that can be assembled by average adults.
the major manufacturers follow this regulation, and have voluntary standards most bike manufacturers adhere to as well.
Fancy bikes being sold by Bikes Direct to the consumer totally work around the CPSC regulations and puts a lot of unsafe bikes on the road because, lets face it, an average adult cannot put together, tune and torque a modern adult derailleur geared bike from a box.
Bikes direct bikes arrive at bike shops in deplorable condition every day of the year. its almost an embarassing moment for the customer, they roll in with a bike assembled unsafe at any speed, and hope the shop can just 'tune it up' a little.
There's no foul in Surly prohibiting dealers from mail order sales of "a surly in a box"; it makes sense for both QBP and the consumer.
there's both CPSC safety regulations and voluntary industry standards that require most modern adult bikes to be assembled by competent bicycle mechanics.
Bikes sold partially assembled must be able to be put together by average adults......that really only leaves cheap kids bikes in nearly completed state legally being sold partially assembled.
Bikes with derailleurs and assorted torque specs for bolts are bikes that do not meet standards for self-assembly in my estimation of the average intelligence of the average adult dealing with modern bike equipment.
hence, the voluntary standards most every bona fide bike manufacturer follows in this country.
the CPSC does regulate and restrict partially assembled bike sales to those that can be assembled by average adults.
the major manufacturers follow this regulation, and have voluntary standards most bike manufacturers adhere to as well.
Fancy bikes being sold by Bikes Direct to the consumer totally work around the CPSC regulations and puts a lot of unsafe bikes on the road because, lets face it, an average adult cannot put together, tune and torque a modern adult derailleur geared bike from a box.
Bikes direct bikes arrive at bike shops in deplorable condition every day of the year. its almost an embarassing moment for the customer, they roll in with a bike assembled unsafe at any speed, and hope the shop can just 'tune it up' a little.
There's no foul in Surly prohibiting dealers from mail order sales of "a surly in a box"; it makes sense for both QBP and the consumer.
The big issue I see with buying a complete bike online nowadays is getting the stem height correct. In the good old days of quill stems, it was pretty easy. If you gambled and ended up with a stem that was too short, all you did was buy a nice tall Nitto Technomic and that fixed your problem. With threadless stems, you have two options. If the company ships your bike with an uncut steer tube, you have to cut it to the proper height yourself, which is a pretty major ordeal for most people. Second option is you end up with a pre-cut steer tube that's too short, so you get an ugly(IMHO) riser stem or a stem extender. I have fit issues with most bikes, as I need my bar at seat height.
Surly's just protecting the LBS. I used to see some big bike shops who sold online were prohibited from selling certain brands online. Now REI is selling Cannondales and Raleighs on the Internet so I guess that changed.
10-29-11, 12:03 PM
#16
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I am a BD owner and I am more than a little surprised that they haven't been sued etc... but maybe they have and that's just the cost of doing business for them. They definitely have a loyal following and their customer service is great, speaking from personal experience. However, I think they make the bike assembly sound simpler than it really is (especially if you don't have a stand). I mean to really go over a bike thoroughly before riding. Right out of the box mine needed a new headset and I am not sure someone less experienced would have picked up on it.
Part of me thinks it's great Surly has taken this stance in support of your LBS, especially if your LBS has a mechanic who knows what they are doing. However, I have received so much bad advice and maintenance work from various LBSs, I no longer feel the least bit guilty in not [always] supporting them. I would love to have a shop in close proximity with a seasoned skilled mechanic, and fair prices. If I purchased a complete Surly from an LBS, I would still completely check it out to the point where I would have been just as well of assembling from scratch (which I enjoy anyway).
Part of me thinks it's great Surly has taken this stance in support of your LBS, especially if your LBS has a mechanic who knows what they are doing. However, I have received so much bad advice and maintenance work from various LBSs, I no longer feel the least bit guilty in not [always] supporting them. I would love to have a shop in close proximity with a seasoned skilled mechanic, and fair prices. If I purchased a complete Surly from an LBS, I would still completely check it out to the point where I would have been just as well of assembling from scratch (which I enjoy anyway).
10-29-11, 01:41 PM
#17
Senior Member
This is my situation too. No dealer around stocks completes in my size (XL), even though I live next to a fairly big city (Columbus, OH). Sure, they'll order it, but I have to pay for it. Where's the benefit of going through the shop? This finally doesn't really affect me, since I mostly buy frames and build them up, but I think much of the country will find this frustrating.
Sure... if you want to sell fewer bikes.
I probably wasn't going to buy a Surly anyway, but I'm certainly not going to drive 35 miles to the nearest dealer that sells the Long Haul Trucker (note: I said sells; they don't actually have any in stock) to place an order for one. There are closer dealers who could order one from QBP, but I suspect they'd be much more interested in selling a bike off the showroom floor and ordering would end up being a hassle.
I probably wasn't going to buy a Surly anyway, but I'm certainly not going to drive 35 miles to the nearest dealer that sells the Long Haul Trucker (note: I said sells; they don't actually have any in stock) to place an order for one. There are closer dealers who could order one from QBP, but I suspect they'd be much more interested in selling a bike off the showroom floor and ordering would end up being a hassle.
10-29-11, 02:41 PM
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Total fail
10-29-11, 03:11 PM
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You know, it really never crossed my mind that you can buy Surlys complete. I have several friends with Surlys and they all built their own. Come to think of it, I am not sure I even know an LBS in the Dayton/Cincy area who carry Surly.
10-29-11, 03:51 PM
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Any LBS who orders from Quality Bicycle Products is a Surly dealer. They may not stock them but getting them is no big deal. Same as Civia and Salsa, I guess. When I had my Surly Pacer built, it was the first Surly my LBS had ever ordered. I do live in an unhip area though.
10-29-11, 03:55 PM
#21
Cycle Year Round
Then quote the 16 CFR regulation that actually does what you claim rather than just throwing your claims in the air.
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10-29-11, 04:05 PM
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Shops will not stock Surly LHT's because there is such a small touring demand. I can sell performance road bikes all day. If someone is looking for a touring bike, they usually know what they want. So what is the big deal if you know you want a LHT. Get it from a shop and get service. When you have a problem with a mail order bike, who is going to take care of you? Finding a good shop is work. If your LBS might not be the best, move on to another. By the way, I love my LHT!!!
10-29-11, 06:57 PM
#24
Senior Member
I have a buddy who bought a cyclocross bike from BikesDirect. It arrived in a huge box, almost completely assembled. He had to install the pedals, clamp the handlebar to the stem, place the wheels in the frame, and that was about it. Out of the box, the drivetrain was tuned just as well as any bike assembled by a minimum-wage LBS employee; no tuning of derailleurs or truing of wheels was required. We stripped the bike to the frame after he'd done a few rides, having heard all of the FUD about BikeDirect's assembly... and didn't find a single problem.
Wish I could say the same for friends who are buying bikes from local bike shops. Recently had friends buy Cannondale and Trek bikes from local shops. Both have had more problems than the guy who bought from BD... After the first ride the Cannondale had to go back to the LBS for front and rear derailleur adjustment and the Trek has been back multiple times for wheel issues.
10-29-11, 07:00 PM
#25
Senior Member
just like walmart et al
without digging too deep to dispell the liberatarian aspirations of the flat earth crowd among us,
there's both CPSC safety regulations and voluntary industry standards that require most modern adult bikes to be assembled by competent bicycle mechanics.
Just like Walmart et al ?
Bikes sold partially assembled must be able to be put together by average adults......that really only leaves cheap kids bikes in nearly completed state legally being sold partially assembled.
Bikes with derailleurs and assorted torque specs for bolts are bikes that do not meet standards for self-assembly in my estimation of the average intelligence of the average adult dealing with modern bike equipment.
hence, the voluntary standards most every bona fide bike manufacturer follows in this country.
the CPSC does regulate and restrict partially assembled bike sales to those that can be assembled by average adults.
the major manufacturers follow this regulation, and have voluntary standards most bike manufacturers adhere to as well.
Fancy bikes being sold by Bikes Direct to the consumer totally work around the CPSC regulations and puts a lot of unsafe bikes on the road because, lets face it, an average adult cannot put together, tune and torque a modern adult derailleur geared bike from a box.
Bikes direct bikes arrive at bike shops in deplorable condition every day of the year. its almost an embarassing moment for the customer, they roll in with a bike assembled unsafe at any speed, and hope the shop can just 'tune it up' a little.
There's no foul in Surly prohibiting dealers from mail order sales of "a surly in a box"; it makes sense for both QBP and the consumer.
there's both CPSC safety regulations and voluntary industry standards that require most modern adult bikes to be assembled by competent bicycle mechanics.
Just like Walmart et al ?
Bikes sold partially assembled must be able to be put together by average adults......that really only leaves cheap kids bikes in nearly completed state legally being sold partially assembled.
Bikes with derailleurs and assorted torque specs for bolts are bikes that do not meet standards for self-assembly in my estimation of the average intelligence of the average adult dealing with modern bike equipment.
hence, the voluntary standards most every bona fide bike manufacturer follows in this country.
the CPSC does regulate and restrict partially assembled bike sales to those that can be assembled by average adults.
the major manufacturers follow this regulation, and have voluntary standards most bike manufacturers adhere to as well.
Fancy bikes being sold by Bikes Direct to the consumer totally work around the CPSC regulations and puts a lot of unsafe bikes on the road because, lets face it, an average adult cannot put together, tune and torque a modern adult derailleur geared bike from a box.
Bikes direct bikes arrive at bike shops in deplorable condition every day of the year. its almost an embarassing moment for the customer, they roll in with a bike assembled unsafe at any speed, and hope the shop can just 'tune it up' a little.
There's no foul in Surly prohibiting dealers from mail order sales of "a surly in a box"; it makes sense for both QBP and the consumer.
Just like Walmart et al