twochins

been rolling tubeless for 2 years...i thought Maxxis wasn't making rim strips anymore. i do my wheels ghetto tubeless using 24" inner tubes from KMart

only way to roll

JoebikerLa

At the price of Notubes rim strips I don't blame you. What do you use for sealant?

CsHoSi

I've been running Serfas Drifters on my Mavic UST rims for about 6 months now, no flats. I used an air compressor to seat them, makes seating the bead very easy. I took 'em up to the max pressure listed on the sidewall, 60 psi I believe and the bead popped into place very audibly. They hold air well, the sealant is just now starting to dry up so that I have to air them up a few pounds every week.

I wanted to share the sealent formula I found on mtbr.com and have been using successfully. I mix 1 part slime + 1 part liquid latex + 1 part anti-freeze + 2 parts water. Put 2-3 ounces in each tire.
The liquid latex I bought from HobbyLobby branded as Mold Builder. The anti-freeze and water helps keep it all from drying up as fast.

I'm lacing a new rim to my old wheelset and have some Stan's NoTubes to run with them. Also have some Panaracer Fire XC UST tires that I'm going to try on the UST rims and move the Drifters over to the wheels with NoTubes. I will still be using my sealent forumula in both.

I used the Tuffy liners before and I was still getting a puncture flat once a week or more. Thorns would puncture the side of the tube or go right through the liner.

Running tubeless I was worried for awhile about pulling the bead off while hard cornering but that has not once been an issue. In fact, on the UST rims, I found to take the tire off you have to pull the bead straight up, not sideways and definitely not with tire spoons.

I have little tubeless plugs I carry in my tube patch kit in case I get a really large hole like that nail mentioned. Why do I still carry a tube patch kit? Because you should still carry a spare tube in case you rip a hole in the tire or the bead does happen to come unseated.

acroy

the size of the rim strip is based on the size of the rim, not the tire - check Bontrager's website for your rim dimensions. I had to use the skinniest rim strip.

acroy

where do you get these plugs?

thanks for the sealant formula.. Slime has left me cold (and sticky and green) before, so i hate to buy the stuff, but mebe i'll try it

CsHoSi

I got the Genuine Innovations Tubeless Repair Kit from BlueSkyCycling.com. They're small rope plugs, I got them for $3.50. They make CO2 inflators and the like too. They actually look small enough I think the sealant could deal with the holes it would plug, I might carry a few of the larger plugs for motorcycles too.

The areas I ride are infested with thorn trees, so there's big spikes to deal with. I usually let the thorn act as a plug, but want to give these a try as a last resort before sticking a tube in if the object has removed itself. On the streets I don't have much to worry about and the Drifters haven't let anything through yet. But I have a mtn bike and I venture off the streets about every ride.

I was happy to find this formula so I didn't have to mail-order the Stan's sealant and even happier that it works so well for me. Kind of silly that I bought the NoTubes strips instead of using 24" inner tubes. I shall not have to again though.

V12V12

What's this about using a 24" innertube, and how/what do you use to make it initially stick to the rim when you are wrapping it, got a DIY guide or pics? The kit's strips are self-adhesive on 1 side I assume, correct? So all you really need is something to seal the rim portion and a liquid sealant filler for the tires?

I just read about this stuff

Loctite® Power Grab® on a Roll is an ultra strong, double-sided adhesive tape for fast & easy indoor and outdoor applications. The adhesive is waterproof, resistant to UV light, aging and plasticizers. It withstands temperature fluctuations from -40ºF to 248ºF (-40ºC to 120ºC), and is suitable for use in areas with extreme temperature or humidity. Just 6 inches of tape will hold up to 11 lbs.

Couldn't this be used for a lil' Ghetto strippage? lol...

acroy

a bit o linkage on diy/ghetto tubeless - sure wish i could find the site i had a while back

https://www.waltworks.com/dev/faq/gotubeless.pdf
https://www.mbaction.com/detail.asp?id=1164
https://www.go-ride.com/ghetto_tubeless.htm
https://www.nsmb.com/gear/tubeless_12_04.php pics!

V12V12

Hey thanks a LOT! Now I can get to attempting to make my own... going to be a PITA for a compressor stupid stations around here charge $1.25 for some damn air!!!!

BTW- I see in some of those people are using Schrader valves b/c of the removable cores... is presta really that much more difficult? THANKS!

acroy

if the tire fits tight on the rim you *shouldn't* need a compressor - i have one but don't use it - just a floor pump and lots o soapy bubbles.

Never tried Shreader myself but it makes sense to be easier to air up. The stan's strips have removeable Presta cores. The Maxxis strips I used are regular Presta, and I was still able to air it up w/o too much hassle, with a tight-fitting tire. I'd lean away from drilling out your rims, alot of modern rims are pretty narrow and that big Schreader hole makes a weak point.

cheers

acroy

Update:

I roll pass 100 miles on my setup today, no issues. They seem to lose maybe 1psi per day. They've taken some abuse. So far so good.

Eggplant Jeff

1. So, the seal is from the tires to the rim tape? They aren't actually sealing to the rim, the way car tires do?

2. Does the rim tape have a valve stem on it? Is that why people say use 24" tubes? You cut the tube (lengthwise?) so that you have a long strip of rubber with a valve stem?

3. Have you had any issues with the sealant coming out the valve stem when you check the air pressure? I had some slime tubes that ruined a tire pressure gauge that way .

4. How much did the whole works cost you?

5. Changing tires becomes a non-trivial exercise, correct? So if you want to put studs on in the winter, you better have another set of rims? (Or be willing to spend a few hours on the tire swap?)

V12V12

So should I just buck up and get a kit (stans or Maxxis) and try the homebrew when I get a new wheelset? I'm pretty sure I can do it on my own, but w/o the compressor... Argh BTW where can I get a cheap (price), but decent air pump? All I see are these crazy $30+ pumps... I mean it's a dang tube, with a plunger, and a cheapo air gage dial $30+??? wtf?

Thanks again!

acroy

1 yep. The UST system seals to the rim. The Stan's/Maxxis/Bontrager/Ghetto systems seal to a strip inside the rim

2 yep and yep. the 24" or 20" tube makes a nice tight rim strip. you cut as describe, mount the tires up, then trim off the excess

3 nope - but rotate the stem towards the sides or top! i get only a tiny bit of sealant out the valve.

4 let's see: rim strips $5x2 + ship = about $15, quart of Stan's $15 + ship = $20, so $35? if you go all-ghetto, use the Wally-world tubes + homebrew sealant, maybe $15-20

5 Correct! tire changing is non-trivial, and i doubt it's possible without a floor pump, bucket o suds, etc. More work upfront but *should* save time & hassle not dealing with annoyance flats. People report that their first wheel is the hardest. Maybe 30 minutes to an hour. Then 5-10 minutes each once you get the hang of it. I have found that to be the case: just like fixing your flat the very first time probably took an hour, but your 100th flat maybe 5 minutes?

If you run studs for a couple months I'd say convert them to tubeless as well, and deal with the hour or so of hassle 2x a year. That said, I have no idea how well the system handles extreme cold. you might want to research it. I run studs for maybe 3 weeks at most. weather here is pretty balmy compared to Philly

acroy

I'd say get one of the kits! or try the uber-ghetto setup with 20 or 24" tubes. but why wait for a new wheelset? convert the one you have. Or practise on your spouse/kid/neighbor unused bike. or wait for a couple months and see if it's a great thing or a terrible mistake for me and JoebikerLa

As far as a pump, i waited till Nashbar had a nice Planet Bike floor pump on sale for ~$15. Before that I used a Target $6 job (Black Trails brand?) and a shreader/presta adapter, free from friendly lbs. the Target pump works just fine, thanks! plenty of air to seat tubeless. no pressure gauge...

I'm convinced, if you can't seat the tubeless system with a floor pump, it's not compressed air you need, it's a tighter fit & more suds you need.

Cheers

JoebikerLa

An update on my tubeless set up. I did the front wheel with stans rim strip with extra wraps of tape to build up the inside of the rim. The tire finally would seat and inflate easily. It's rolling great.

The rear rim is a different rim, Mavic 221. I could not get it to seat no matter how much tape I wrapped around the rim. I decided to try the ghetto tubeless with a 20" tube and stans sealant. It worked great. The tire seated easily and reseated with sealant easily too. I am a bit concerned about the reuse of the 20" tube if I have to remove the tire for any reason. I can't think of any reason during normal commutes though. After the tire seats and the sealant seals all of the holes, the tire bead sticks to the rim strip well enough to inflate with a hand pump if needed. I hope the ghetto tubeless does the same. The 20" tube was 3 bucks, so it will be cheap enough to replace if needed. This setup will be the true test. The Stan's seems pretty fool proof. It would be even more fool proof with different tires that would seat easy. The ghetto tubeless seated easy, but it had lot's of extra tube hanging off the sides. It it has to be redone, this extra is not there because I trimmed it away.

acroy

Great update JoebikerLa, glad to hear the ghetto setup went well.
I have no new news, which is great news. close to 200 miles, no issues, maybe 1psi pressure loss per day at most.
I plan to convert my wife's bike to ghetto Schraeder tubeless and a used set of 2" Kend k-rads. Should abe a fun one.
Cheers

JoebikerLa

Well, the ghetto tubeless did not let me refill the tire with air. I got a puncture this morning on the way to work. I felt the tire getting low, so I stopped to fill it up. I got to work fine and after parking, I saw a puddle of sealant beneath the tire. I made sure the leak stayed at the bottom of the tire so the sealant would fill up the hole and pumped up the tire occasionally. The tire stayed inflated to what seemed a decent pressure for the majority of the day and I made it home without stopping to inflate. When I got home I checked the tire and it seemed a little low on air. So I think I need more sealant since a lot must have leaked out. It was a shraider valve tube, so I removed the inner valve and squirted more sealant in and tried to pump up the tire with my compressor. No dice. I added soap suds, no dice. It now has a tube in it.

If it had not leaked out so much sealant, I would not have had to let all the air out to add more sealant. Also if more time had gone by, I think the tire bead may have stuck better to the ghetto tube and I would have been able to re inflate. I may try again later as I like the idea of a slow leak I can stop and pump up as opposed to a flat that I have to stop and change.

The front tire done with the Stan's rim strip and sealant is doing great.

acroy

Maybe you need some of those tubeless plugs to fill that hole and help the sealant!

i just passed 200 miles, 2 weeks now, no issues at all. Fingers are crossed....

pedalMonger

I don't understand how going tubeless improves the quality of the ride using the same tire? Not saying it doesn't, just not wrapping my mind around it.

acroy

I was skeptical as well but it's true - no tube in there rubbing around I guess. Tubes ride kinda wooden and harsh compared to tubeless at the same pressure.
give it a try

pedalMonger

I'm not brave enough to jump into that level of tinkering yet, I just got my bike and am new to commuting, haven't even had a flat yet But thanks for the interesting thread, I might give it a try if I ever start having problems with frequent flats. I might try it anyway someday if I get bored and want to experiment, just to see if I really notice a diff in the ride.

Eggplant Jeff

There's less rubber in there so what's there is going to bend easier. Think of it like plywood, the tube is another ply of material. Except since the support is done by the air pressure rather than the tire, removing that ply doesn't make the tire weaker. Just makes it more flexible.

Eggplant Jeff

I'm such a hopeless tinkerer I want to do this now. I haven't even fixed the other problems with my bikes and I want to start new projects .

acroy

I hear ya, and glad to contribute to your condition