Wheel building aesthetics advice please
11-24-19, 04:27 PM
#1
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Wheel building aesthetics advice please
As the weather turns chilly and I continue the interminable wait for my next bike build to come back from the powder coater, my thoughts are turning to a wheel building project. I have a very nice Royce high flange 28 hole front hub that needs to be used. Royce is a boutique British hub manufacturer. This one is lightweight with cartridge bearings but has a nice classic look to it and would be a good complement to a vintage bike.
So - I have a pair of NOS red label Mavic MA40 28 hole rims. I probably bought these on a deal after I got the hub. For well over a year, I’ve been idly looking for a 28 hole high flange rear hub to go with this, but haven’t found anything, other than track hubs, at a price I would want to pay so I’m thinking of other build options. I did pick up a 28 hole low flange Campy Record rear hub along the way. I also have a set of 36 hole green label MA40’s in nice condition. So here are options I have right now:
1) Find a high flange rear 36 hole hub and build a 28 front 36 rear set with label mis-matched rims. I know 28-32 sets are pretty common. I think 28-36 might look weird, even if the rims completely matched. 36 hole hub is easier to find and would cost less. This would also mean two sets of 28-36 wheels, since I have two pairs of rims.
2) Use the Campy 28h rear hub. High flange front, low flange rear would also look weird.
3) Sell the hub and rims and buy something else nice for myself or someone else without all the angst.
4) Don’t be a dummy and do this right. Treat myself to a quality matching rear hub in 28 holes.
4a) Matching 32 hole hub and rim
So - I have a pair of NOS red label Mavic MA40 28 hole rims. I probably bought these on a deal after I got the hub. For well over a year, I’ve been idly looking for a 28 hole high flange rear hub to go with this, but haven’t found anything, other than track hubs, at a price I would want to pay so I’m thinking of other build options. I did pick up a 28 hole low flange Campy Record rear hub along the way. I also have a set of 36 hole green label MA40’s in nice condition. So here are options I have right now:
1) Find a high flange rear 36 hole hub and build a 28 front 36 rear set with label mis-matched rims. I know 28-32 sets are pretty common. I think 28-36 might look weird, even if the rims completely matched. 36 hole hub is easier to find and would cost less. This would also mean two sets of 28-36 wheels, since I have two pairs of rims.
2) Use the Campy 28h rear hub. High flange front, low flange rear would also look weird.
3) Sell the hub and rims and buy something else nice for myself or someone else without all the angst.
4) Don’t be a dummy and do this right. Treat myself to a quality matching rear hub in 28 holes.
4a) Matching 32 hole hub and rim
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
11-24-19, 04:44 PM
#2
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Pics of the Royce? What rear spacing?
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11-24-19, 05:06 PM
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Matching 28 hole hub. I understand that I'm not paying for it, but if it were my situation, and did otherwise, I'd probably wind up regretting not finding that hub!
11-24-19, 05:14 PM
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11-24-19, 05:18 PM
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I'd use the 28h low flange rear and HF front. Unless your using a super small corn cob or posting NDS pics the small hub won't be that noticeable.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
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11-24-19, 05:24 PM
#7
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28/36 has been done before, and doesn't look that weird. Since there's a cross opposite the valve on both wheels, you probably wouldn't even notice it unless you were counting spokes.
11-24-19, 05:34 PM
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I'll probably kick myself in the future, but here goes.. the I stands for Italian freewheel threads. PM me. Smiles, MH
11-24-19, 06:10 PM
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Even out of focus, those are Nice.
I have found equal issues over time.
I bought a pair of 36/40 Campagnolo High flange hub shells by FB a number of years ago... I had a set of low flange hubs of the same type but were cosmetically challenged, so traded out the required parts... so far so good, Finally a 40 hole Scheeren rim appeared as a built wheel... I had another orphan 36 hole Scheeren rim via watchful buying. That set is done. Styling.
Bought a complete set of Campagnolo 28 hole Aero rim wheels, with seta tires, $100 including shipping... No one else bid.
The last set is still in process, a 24 hole Campag High flange pista rear wheel, for $20 at a swap meet, a decade ago!
Been looking for a 24 hole front hub... road or track, 24 hole... either I have not looked well enough or often enough. Still looking.
I should mention I have lucked into other complete sets of wheels cheap, a 32 hole track set and a 32 hole Scheeren rim road set. One has to be vigilant.
Of note, widen your search to complete wheel or sets. Often, very often, built wheels singular or as a set sell for less than hubs alone, no matter the condition of the wheels.
I have found equal issues over time.
I bought a pair of 36/40 Campagnolo High flange hub shells by FB a number of years ago... I had a set of low flange hubs of the same type but were cosmetically challenged, so traded out the required parts... so far so good, Finally a 40 hole Scheeren rim appeared as a built wheel... I had another orphan 36 hole Scheeren rim via watchful buying. That set is done. Styling.
Bought a complete set of Campagnolo 28 hole Aero rim wheels, with seta tires, $100 including shipping... No one else bid.
The last set is still in process, a 24 hole Campag High flange pista rear wheel, for $20 at a swap meet, a decade ago!
Been looking for a 24 hole front hub... road or track, 24 hole... either I have not looked well enough or often enough. Still looking.
I should mention I have lucked into other complete sets of wheels cheap, a 32 hole track set and a 32 hole Scheeren rim road set. One has to be vigilant.
Of note, widen your search to complete wheel or sets. Often, very often, built wheels singular or as a set sell for less than hubs alone, no matter the condition of the wheels.
11-24-19, 06:33 PM
#10
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If you are actually going to ride this, a 28h rear wheel with a traditional low profile (non aero) rim is not exactly practical, unless you weigh under a 100 lbs. IMHO of course. Go for a 36 rear. 28 was only used for time trial wheels BITD. Front is probably OK.
11-24-19, 06:44 PM
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You have time. Royce hubs are pretty traditional looking so get a reasonable 28 hole rear to "match". While your riding, you can admire that cool hub and by next winter, (or the next), you'll have a Royce for the rear. Match the Royce hub measurements with the placeholder and you can reuse the spokes.
11-24-19, 06:54 PM
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repechage,
Those have been gracing the bottom drawer of a tool chest for the last 37 years. The new old stock thing is appropriate here. After eye surgery a year ago most things are a bit blurry for me, so please excuse my using a hand held camera trying to get a pic. I'm a better mechanic than photographer (smiles). The OCD part of a lot of vintage folks is likely at work here, but at least spaghetti knows they are here.
I have a current wheel on my Ochsner that was a 24 hole rear hub drilled on the drive side to allow me to use as a three cross drive and radial non drive. Low flange that was matched to a high flange front until a rebuild this year to make a matched set. I am lucky we have rather active cycling scene here in Bloomington so there are always bits and pieced to be found. Got a pair of Montreal rims laced onto some inexpensive track hubs last month in the co-op for $20. And I likely have that front 24h front hub laced into a track wheel somewhere in the archives. I picked it up from a much lighter rider who spent Friday nights at the velodrome in Indy. I don't think he brought home a lot of hardware though. I also have a set of 24hlf still in the box laying on top of one of the tool cabinets here when you are ready to bring yer wallet (smiles). My lament is the price of high end sew ups for all of my vintage rides. Smiles, MH
Those have been gracing the bottom drawer of a tool chest for the last 37 years. The new old stock thing is appropriate here. After eye surgery a year ago most things are a bit blurry for me, so please excuse my using a hand held camera trying to get a pic. I'm a better mechanic than photographer (smiles). The OCD part of a lot of vintage folks is likely at work here, but at least spaghetti knows they are here.
I have a current wheel on my Ochsner that was a 24 hole rear hub drilled on the drive side to allow me to use as a three cross drive and radial non drive. Low flange that was matched to a high flange front until a rebuild this year to make a matched set. I am lucky we have rather active cycling scene here in Bloomington so there are always bits and pieced to be found. Got a pair of Montreal rims laced onto some inexpensive track hubs last month in the co-op for $20. And I likely have that front 24h front hub laced into a track wheel somewhere in the archives. I picked it up from a much lighter rider who spent Friday nights at the velodrome in Indy. I don't think he brought home a lot of hardware though. I also have a set of 24hlf still in the box laying on top of one of the tool cabinets here when you are ready to bring yer wallet (smiles). My lament is the price of high end sew ups for all of my vintage rides. Smiles, MH
11-24-19, 06:54 PM
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I'm about 145 lbs and have been using 28 hole Campy low flange hubs with Mavic Open 4 CD ceramics since those rims first became available. I built the wheels myself. Front is radial "laced" with Alpina Aero spokes, rear 3x with DT db spokes.Granted, I don't beat on them, but I've never had a problem with them.
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11-24-19, 09:42 PM
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Some riders ride "light"
they anticipate bad road surfaces - lift just a bit off the saddle and let the bike float over the bad stuff. They can use and not abuse the light stuff.
some even lightweight riders just don't get it. It took me over two years to get my son to lift off the saddle and not go " ouch "
over a bad driveway apron.
he gets heavy rims and big section tires.
right now I am in low expenditure mode, when I hopefully have time over the Christmas holiday will set some bikes up for sale, been a tough year, this quarter especially, wow, unprecedented. So it goes.
they anticipate bad road surfaces - lift just a bit off the saddle and let the bike float over the bad stuff. They can use and not abuse the light stuff.
some even lightweight riders just don't get it. It took me over two years to get my son to lift off the saddle and not go " ouch "
over a bad driveway apron.
he gets heavy rims and big section tires.
right now I am in low expenditure mode, when I hopefully have time over the Christmas holiday will set some bikes up for sale, been a tough year, this quarter especially, wow, unprecedented. So it goes.
11-24-19, 11:18 PM
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Good info, thanks folks! I’m working overnight so will try to address some PM’s tomorrow. I’ve been 1 foot in the 28-28 camp and that seems to be the consensus so far.
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
11-25-19, 04:45 AM
#16
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Otherwise, there is some good info and experiences in this thread: Experiences with current High Flange Cassette hubs?
11-25-19, 06:39 AM
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Clearly you need to build multiple wheel sets and acquire at least two more frames.
11-25-19, 11:22 AM
#18
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I'm about 145 lbs and have been using 28 hole Campy low flange hubs with Mavic Open 4 CD ceramics since those rims first became available. I built the wheels myself. Front is radial "laced" with Alpina Aero spokes, rear 3x with DT db spokes.Granted, I don't beat on them, but I've never had a problem with them.
Last edited by Salamandrine; 11-25-19 at 02:36 PM.
11-25-19, 02:22 PM
#19
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Well duh. There were some nice Mavic 28 hole hubs for sale here recently and I hesitated, thinking I’d have to get a Mavic groupset to go with them.
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
11-25-19, 06:36 PM
#20
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Here’s the Royce hub in question. Stevensb has come through with an offer of a very nicely matched campy rear hub. Props also to madhonk with a nice offer as well. C+V rocks!
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
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11-25-19, 09:57 PM
#22
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Indeed. They are pricey but I got a really good deal on this one.
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
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11-26-19, 08:46 AM
#23
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I'm also all for 28. 36 hole hubs and rims have been the solution to bad spokes, bad rim beds, and bad wheel builds for decades now. Remember that one reason we liked 36 hole wheels was because you could still ride them with up to two broken spokes, assuming you carried your spoke wrench.
11-26-19, 03:21 PM
#24
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Small flange rear, large flange front looks pretty good. It was even a thing for a while. Something about how it tightens up steering while still giving comfort in the saddle. Which you can believe or not but it has certainly been done. 32 in rear will look more balanced. 36 will be fine.
