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Thoughts of replicating a TriVelox 'A' type rear derailleur/hub hybrid

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Thoughts of replicating a TriVelox 'A' type rear derailleur/hub hybrid

Old 12-30-14, 03:02 PM
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Thoughts of replicating a TriVelox 'A' type rear derailleur/hub hybrid

I like the weird stuff.

I've been looking over the design of the short lived TriVelox 'A' hub (circa 1930's) and was zapped by the thought of replicating and making a frankenhub. I have a fixed Simplex chain tensioner that mounts to the chainstay, various junk cassette hubs, 3 speed IGH internal and cable pieces. The cassette hub would partially be machine slotted for slide actuated gear set. I would just use a single chainring and the chainline would remain constant. Whatcha' think? Crazy?

UK Patent 451,722 - TriVelox A1






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Old 12-30-14, 03:09 PM
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Your looking at the "B" model trivelox. The "A" model has a claw that moves the block. I'm at present working on a 1935 sun tandem with a Trivelox(model A )
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Old 12-30-14, 03:15 PM
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Does Frank Berto know about trivelox? It's a new one on me -- thanks for the thread!
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Old 12-30-14, 03:18 PM
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Old 12-30-14, 03:29 PM
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You guys are amazing! I'm not fully aware of the differences between the models but did find this pic on Velobase.



My thought was to adapt a cassette hub in the TriVelox type with sliding cog. Maybe I'm incorrectly viewing it and it rather used separate gears.
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Old 12-30-14, 03:42 PM
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frameteam- That's a first I've seen. Very neat! Yours also has a moving derailleur (in addition to chain tension). I was thinking of having a fixed mount chain tensioner (pivot only) mounted to the chainstay by two bolts. An internal sliding dog would be in the hub center, attached to an external 3 speed type cable parts. A 3 or 4 speed cassette cog set would be joined as one but be able to loosely slide on the splined body. The splined body would be partially slotted, allowing an opening for the internal dog.
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Old 12-30-14, 04:01 PM
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My boss in the 70's-80's ran the Sturmey Archer version of what you are looking at and said once sorted it was very reliable, used for commuting he stayed with it for about 8 years, no where near as cool as what you are looking at.
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Old 12-30-14, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by frameteam2003 View Post
Your looking at the "B" model trivelox. The "A" model has a claw that moves the block. I'm at present working on a 1935 sun tandem with a Trivelox(model A )
I think you're only partly right, there. The derailleur I have on my Fothergill is a Trivelox Model B, and it's a comparatively conventional design that moves the chain over a normal freewheel. But whatever. Clearly the engineers at Trivelox were capable of thinking outside the box!

When I bought mine, for song, on eBay, a listing with terrible photos, I expected the earlier version to come in the mail. So I thought about how to make the sliding cassette. I think I'd start with an 8 sp freehub body and stack of cassette cogs. grind the teeth off one cassette cog to put in the outer position, then use jbweld or something to assemble a set of cogs into a cassette. Grind them as necessary to make sure they slide smoothly. For the mechanism to move them sideways, I suspect parallelogram derailleur could be modified to interface with the toothless outer cog.
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Old 12-30-14, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I think you're only partly right, there. The derailleur I have on my Fothergill is a Trivelox Model B, and it's a comparatively conventional design that moves the chain over a normal freewheel. But whatever. Clearly the engineers at Trivelox were capable of thinking outside the box!

When I bought mine, for song, on eBay, a listing with terrible photos, I expected the earlier version to come in the mail. So I thought about how to make the sliding cassette. I think I'd start with an 8 sp freehub body and stack of cassette cogs. grind the teeth off one cassette cog to put in the outer position, then use jbweld or something to assemble a set of cogs into a cassette. Grind them as necessary to make sure they slide smoothly. For the mechanism to move them sideways, I suspect parallelogram derailleur could be modified to interface with the toothless outer cog.
Reminds me of The Hopper Vampire Convincible with all this sliding going on.

Wix.com - Website built by thevintagebikelife based on Blank Website | hopper-vampire
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Old 12-30-14, 05:50 PM
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from what I've read on the Trivelox site there were 4 different versions. Mine being the first, then there was the chain pull type.(one with a pull on the right/the other on the left.And finally the last type as described by RHM ---which was a Cyclo type of derailer that moved the chain.
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Old 12-30-14, 07:08 PM
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Here's a photo of mine, for the record.

Unlike a Cyclo Standard, Nivex, etc, which have two cables, this only has one; and unlike Simplex, Huret and Cyclo Benelux cable-pull derailleurs, this one uses its single cable to downshift; upshift is accomplished by a return spring. It's a remarkably simple, you could even say primitive, design; and it works quite nicely (at least for the narrow range I use it for)
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Old 12-30-14, 07:42 PM
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SO 'derailleur' or tensioner doesn't move from side to side but that little blade looking thingie moves the cogs side to side.

Yeah I think I go with a Sach orbital hub
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Old 12-30-14, 08:18 PM
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Someone recently posted a mystery frame with a two-holed chainstay tab that looks as though it would support one of these derailleurs. When were they made and sold?
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Old 12-30-14, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Here's a photo of mine, for the record.

Unlike a Cyclo Standard, Nivex, etc, which have two cables, this only has one; and unlike Simplex, Huret and Cyclo Benelux cable-pull derailleurs, this one uses its single cable to downshift; upshift is accomplished by a return spring. It's a remarkably simple, you could even say primitive, design; and it works quite nicely (at least for the narrow range I use it for)
I see one cable through the hub, a second through the derailleur. What am I missing here? Please post a picture of the shift control end(s) of the transmission.
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Old 12-30-14, 09:19 PM
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Oh, sorry, that photo was confusing. The cable going into the hub is the standard Sturmey Archer shift cable; it's an AW three speed hub. The only funky thing about the hub is that it has two cogs on it; hence the Trivelox derailleur. The standard Trivelox shifter is a top tube mounted quadrant similar to what Sturmey Archer used at the time. Kinda interesting, in that it indexes; like a modern indexed shifter, there is no attempt to make the derailleur index with the cogs, but rather the indexing is done at the shifter. But whatever its merits, I don't have the Trivelox shifter. I made my own out of scrap aluminum. Here's a photo that shows both the Sturmey Archer trigger on the handlebar and my home-made 'Trivelox' two speed shifter.



The frame that was discussed recently, that had this type of derailleur mount, is the black and gold Claud Butler. This type of derailleur mounting was common in the 30s and continued to the early 50's. I don't know when they stopped making derailleurs that mounted in this way. The Resilion derailleur, for example, was introduced in the 50's but I don't know how long they were made.
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Old 12-30-14, 09:31 PM
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Trivelox along side a sturmey archer
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Old 12-30-14, 09:37 PM
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On the original style trivelox that keep the chain in line the cogs are on a three speed freewheel block that slides on the hub. It might be possible to use a French/Schwinn type cluster that has the splines and machine a splined shaft for it to slid on.
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Old 12-30-14, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Someone recently posted a mystery frame with a two-holed chainstay tab that looks as though it would support one of these derailleurs. When were they made and sold?
The early trivelox frames are easy to I.D. as the rear frame was spaced 130mm for this very wide set-up
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Old 12-30-14, 09:47 PM
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I am clueless about this but fascinated!! This is real bike geek stuff.
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Old 12-31-14, 01:43 PM
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Rudi- Is that another Fothergill or is this the same bike but swapped out the Resilion derailleur?

Also, how well does the gearset assembly slide? I noticed the later patent drawing shows a bearing block for easy slide action.
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Old 12-31-14, 02:21 PM
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Yet another TriVelox but haven't figured out what is sliding the cogset. It appears to just be a heavy duty fulcrum action tensioner. Perhaps there's a cable thru hollow axle not seen on the other side (in addition to a drum brake)??




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Old 12-31-14, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Rudi- Is that another Fothergill or is this the same bike but swapped out the Resilion derailleur?
Same bike. I used the Resilion derailleur for a couple years, and it served me well. Buying the Trivelox was almost an accident --didn't expect my lowball bid to win it-- but had to try the Trivelox because it's just so funky. Turns out I like it very well, mainly because it's a heck of a lot easier to remove the rear wheel with the Trivelox; something about the Resilion made wheel changes very difficult. That, and the Trivelox is just so funky

I don't know how those Trivelox gearset assemblies slide. I can't imagine they slide well, moved by an assymetrical mechanism under the weight of the chain, compounded by the tension applied by the derailleur. But I speculate.
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Old 01-01-15, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Yet another TriVelox but haven't figured out what is sliding the cogset. It appears to just be a heavy duty fulcrum action tensioner. Perhaps there's a cable thru hollow axle not seen on the other side (in addition to a drum brake)??




Yes this photo is of the trivelox with the hollow axel chain pull from the drum side, in the photo you can see the cable.
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Old 01-01-15, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by frameteam2003 View Post
Yes this photo is of the trivelox with the hollow axel chain pull from the drum side, in the photo you can see the cable.
Yes, the pull must be from the other side, with a hollow axle. But
I don't see the cable. I see the long spring that pulls the jockey cage clockwise to keep the chain tensioned.

I need to get a spring like that for mine! I may try making one from a guitar string, but I may end up using a generic Home Depot tension spring again.
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Old 01-01-15, 06:48 PM
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I need to correct myself on the model names
my 1930 claw type is a model A
here are some more :





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