FordTrax

I am a roadie, 60 years old, ride often probably 3K+ or more a year. I have a "few" road bikes that I have built. I would like to build a laid back gravel bike for some occasional use on fire roads, gravel rail trails, double track. But nothing difficult or single track. I will put a light duty rear rack and use a trunk bag - but it will be day rider no loaded touring. I got a full on touring bike. Something fun and comfortable to ride on gravel. I am not a fast roadie 13-15 mph but as a roadie I don't want a heavy/slow feeling bike.


Wants: Steel frame and fork, thru axles, disc brakes I think may JuinTechs. I run friction on some of my modern road frames and think this might be another friction shifter bike - I love friction. Comfortable, not slow for day rides with a rear rack with trunk bag.

Hoping someone has experience with one or both of these - would like some feed back on the VO Polyvalent vs the AC Space Horse. I did contact Rawland Cycles about the Ravn to see if they would be getting more frames but never got a response.

Any input here would be appreciated.

katsup

The All City brand is ending: https://cyclingindustry.news/qbp-ann...-to-wind-down/

This wouldn't stop me if I wanted that bike, but it may matter to some.

t2p

Jamis another option ?

mstateglfr 

These 2 bikes have wildly different geometry, at least in my size they are wildly different. Stack, reach, head tube angle, wheelbase, bottom bracket drop, fork rake, and trail. Oh, and different wheel sizes too.
The bikes will ride differently.
No idea which you would like most.

Garthr

The biggest difference I see is going to be in the steering/handling, the Polyvalent is in the low trail category while the All City is mid trail. You can modify the sizes, but here's a schematic frame image. https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geo...9711001cc8ee50,

JSchmoyer

another big thumbs up for the Jameis renegade I have the S2 and I love it perfect all adventure, all road bike. Stack and ride position is just ever so slightly higher than the average gravel bike which makes it really comfortable.

but the Jameis has a carbon fork (note looking like the new 2024 model will have a chip that lets you alter. The rake of the fork, which is super cool, but again it's carbon..)

Also for your search, I think you should look into the Wilde Bike Rambler. it's a new startup Company by the former all city product designer.

This bike seems like it has everything you want geometry very close to the Jamis.

t2p

Jamis S3 or S4 might have a steel fork … ? … can’t recall …

I would probably have an S2 now - if LBS was able to get one … months (and months) after the pandemic still unable to get one for a long period … one customer eventually found one at a bike shop across the country - and then had it shipped to the LBS …

JSchmoyer

All the Renegade lineup in 2023 seems to share the same (very nice) carbon fork.

Actually I had exactly that journey - couldn't find an S2 in 56 any of my local dealers... although felt a bit guilty about it I finally bought from a bike shop several states away and had it shipped. Glad I did. I had my LBS go over it both initially and after 200 miles of riding though.

Hopefully the new 2024 S2 that just showed up on Jamis's website is a sign that they finally have more inventory flowing.

But seriously, also check out the Wilde bikes website. That steel fork model is cool.

shelbyfv

Check the Black Mtn Cycles Mod Zero

pdlamb

Velo Orange seems to be joining Rivendell in selling classic steel frames, but having models that last 2-3 years before being replaced by new models. So I'm not sure there's much benefit to a particular Velo Orange model over All City, unless either has a "lifetime" frame warranty (that you hope you won't have to use).

But a good steel frame that you can build up however you like, and re-build as your wants change? No reason not to buy either, or a Surly, or Soma, or any of a few dozen other mass-produced or custom bikes.

50PlusCycling

I have an 2023 All City Space Horse. I bought just the frame and fork, and put together the bike with a new GRX 12 speed driveline. I’ve been riding it for a couple months now, and I am very happy with it. The fit and finish is superb, everything was properly aligned, and putting it together was completely painless.

The ride quality is excellent, I bought a 55cm frame, and fitted 29” wheels with 45mm Gravel King SK tires. It’s a beautiful bike, rides great, and I plan to do some bike packing with it once the weather gets warmer.

I made a video about my Space Horse, you can see it here:

Kapusta

I almost bought a Space Horse back in 2017. It was down to that or a Fog Cutter, and I went with the later. A year later, a good friend bought a Space Horse, And I tool a ride on it.

I thought the ride was a little harsh, like the frame was a bit overbuilt* Did not have as lively and smooth a ride as other steel frames I’ve tried or owned (like my old Salsa Casseroll) Maybe on par or a little harsher than my Fog Cutter which was also a little disappointing in that regard. Then again when carrying some weight, the flex may be just right.

Awesome looking color scheme, though!

* Just to be clear, its not a BAD ride. I’d still take it over a similarly priced Al frame.

Craptacular8

I've not ridden the VO. I do still have a AC Spacehorse, albeit pre-disc. I set it up with bar end shifters, and have ridden thousands of miles of gravel, and loaded for touring. Great bike. I've always felt it was a good ride. Stripped of all racks, and running 700 x 35 road tires, it is zippy. With heavier knobby tires like I've had it setup for that past few years, very predictable, hauls loads reliably, granted by the time I added racks and fenders, plus a permanently mounted framed handlebar bag, it's decidedly "solid."

FordTrax

Just to give everyone who posted an updated. I ordered a Space Horse frame/fork in the Mint Green colorway. Should be in the bike shop in a few days. Since the shop I elected to get it from is some distance from my house it might be a few more days till I can get by to pick it up.

There used to be a shop a few towns over that carried Jamis - I looked at the Renegade there a few years ago. I actually was impressed with the whole Jamis line-up. That shop closed and I kind of don't even think of that brand for some reason. I was really surprised to see the Renegade get so much love here.

I wonder if the Jamis brand just is not common around my area. I never thought of the bike business as regional but maybe it somewhat is.

In any event, I set up a spreadsheet to help me look at the geometry on the Space Horse (BTW - I sized down to a 55cm - all my road frames are 58cm - but I think that is common with AC) compared to the Piolet, Polyvalent, Wolverine, Cross Check, BM Monster Cross, Ghost Grappler, Gorilla Monsoon, and a Bombora. I am a finance type so looking at data on a spreadsheet works for me. I knew that a couple of the bikes in the analysis (Ghost Grappler for instance) were to "mountain" but I wanted to see how their geometry number looked compared to the frames that were possible. The Space Horse just seemed to be kind of in the sweet spot. I watched a number of youtube videos - Russ at Pathless Pedaled had reviewed it several times as had others. I actually talked to a customer service person at All City, who was very helpful. She talked to me about her experience with her personal Space Horse how it might be set up for me. I talked with a former bike shop in another state about the Space Horse, Gorilla, and the Velo Orange frames. I miss having them here - but they still helped me to make this decision. Next time I pass through there I will stop and pick up a couple of items - great shop. I am very confident I made a very safe and good choice.

So thank you all for your thoughts. BTW: Kapusta I have a Casserole - that frame is so pretty - I have it setup for urban riding with the 1st gen crazy bar. That is one bike that I will not part with. There is just nothing not to like about that light touring frame.
And 50+Cycling I think my Space Horse will look a lot like what you did maybe 45mm on 650b (never ran a 650b so I am curious what all the hype that size seems to get). Also thanks for the input Craptacular.

Koyote

Yeah, the common wisdom is that AC sizing is a bit long on the top tube, so your choice of a 55 is probably solid.

I have a Space Horse -- mine is from a generation or two back. Disc brakes and quick release dropouts. I did choose my standard size (58) and it works well for me with a 110mm stem. But I am fine with being a bit stretched out.

The SH is a burly frame - if you want to do light touring or grocery hauling, it's spec'ed to carry up to 50 lbs (25 front, 25 rear). That makes the frame and fork pretty heavy, but that's fine with me. I have used mine for a couple gravel races, but now it's set up with full fenders and a Brooks saddle and used as an all-weather training bike. The geometry is a great middle-of-the-road setup, the ride is smooth and stable, and the bike is extremely versatile. I think you'll like it!

JSchmoyer

Hey keep us posted on your build and how it turns out! Aesthetically the Space Horse is a beautiful frame by the way so big congrats.