Augmenting Amazon Delivery with Bikes?
06-30-18, 05:10 PM
#78
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Yes, and do you realize that it's just pure bias in favor of selling vans? Do you not understand that means it's not about delivery efficiency at all and they would even avert the efficiency of including bike couriers if possible because that would prevent them from selling unnecessarily many vans to print money for themselves to dole out to their friends? Do you not see how corrupt that is?
I doubt there are so many deliveries that couldn't be delivered by bike couriers.
This is the same as when someone sees some tiny work situation where you can't go by bike so they say that everyone needs to drive and effectively exclude cyclists when 9 out of 10 time biking would suffice.
You're just focusing on the hardest situations to deal with by bike. The reality is probably that bike couriers could do the door-to-door deliveries so the van driver would only be shuttling packages from the warehouse, and that would reduce the number of vans needed overall, if they would allow it as a cost-saving measure.
You love setting up parameters that favor cars over bikes, but that's not reality. Reality is that a van can shuttle large loads over long distances more quickly but that bikes can move more nimbly and efficiently within most delivery areas once the packages have been brought from the remote warehouse.
You must also realize you cannot make 150 to 250 deliveries a day of everything from TVs to Christmas trees. All you have to do is prove you can duplicate the deliveries already made with a bicycle to get the contract with Amazon.
If you cannot do it then you cannot change the rules of a company you have no stock in or position in.
That is reality, life not negativity. Did you even read about the distances required to deliver for any of the express carriers? Many years ago I had a delivery route when I first started working. My first stop was 98 miles from the warehouse. The senior mans first stop was 10 miles from the warehouse. I might have had 20 stops he had about 40 stops. Some of the stops were with boxes of paper, 42 pounds per box of 8.5 x 11 paper and 62 pounds for 8.5 x 14 or 17x11. One stop might have had 10 boxes and another might have five. Just tell me how a bicycle could do either of those jobs with 20 stops or 40 stops? Amazon will have different size boxes as well and they will have routs starting a pretty good distance away from the warehouse. If your first stop is 15 miles from the warehouse and 15 miles back can you do that by bike? Can you make 80 stops if the first stop is 15 miles from the warehouse? Can you do it with one load? If not who is making it hard for cyclists to get in on the Amazon deal?
Give us a practical explanation of warehouse to front door where bicycles can fill the needs of a company that already gets 200 deliveries out of a drive?
06-30-18, 05:12 PM
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Inability to carry much cargo would tend to decrease the utility of a vehicle for a service based on reliable, secure and prompt delivery of multiple packages in all weather, all year at minimal cost for the shipper. Quite a "penalty" I would say.
BTW, do you have any idea of the cost of the cargo e-bikes being tested by UPS that you referenced in msg 15? Know many private citizens with such a vehicle? Can a citizen without commercial plates park legally on the sidewalk in business districts of big cities or do they have to find a legal spot on the street?
BTW, do you have any idea of the cost of the cargo e-bikes being tested by UPS that you referenced in msg 15? Know many private citizens with such a vehicle? Can a citizen without commercial plates park legally on the sidewalk in business districts of big cities or do they have to find a legal spot on the street?
Our local bike co-op makes what they call "tri-haulers". Most of them are now electrified, recumbents. 100% front wheel drive (plus rear brakes).
I think the cost is around $3000 to $4000 each.
Unfortunately, they really don't make many new ones of them now. However, the design is a pretty simple design, quite modular, and could likely be made for less if one is making several.
They have experimented a bit with roofs (rebuilding the one bike above). I think the current version has a surfboard like greenhouse plastic roof on it.
I don't think it is completely weatherproof, or secure, but there is no reason why it could't be made to be lockable and weatherproof.
Oh, it looks like they made the box bigger, I think on the same trike base.
Note, UPS frequently leaves the doors open when they make stops.
People talk about UPS parking in bike lanes & etc. This E-Bike, if it has a reasonable turning radius could likely get around easier and quicker. And, even parking in a bike lane, the bike would fit entirely in the lane, and not be as bad of an obstruction as a UPS van.
For "events", it gets ridden onto grass with no damage to the grass.
Legality, of course, would depend a bit on whether the city promotes the E-Bikes, or fights them.
Recently there was a video posted of a German or Dutch E-Cargo company with several relatively modular "vehicles". Perhaps I'll hunt it down.
Last edited by CliffordK; 06-30-18 at 05:16 PM.
06-30-18, 06:01 PM
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I don't know how much UPS is spending on their E-Delivery vehicles. I presume there is some R&D cost on top of production.
Our local bike co-op makes what they call "tri-haulers". Most of them are now electrified, recumbents. 100% front wheel drive (plus rear brakes).
I think the cost is around $3000 to $4000 each.
Unfortunately, they really don't make many new ones of them now. However, the design is a pretty simple design, quite modular, and could likely be made for less if one is making several.
They have experimented a bit with roofs (rebuilding the one bike above). I think the current version has a surfboard like greenhouse plastic roof on it.
I don't think it is completely weatherproof, or secure, but there is no reason why it could't be made to be lockable and weatherproof.
Oh, it looks like they made the box bigger, I think on the same trike base.
Note, UPS frequently leaves the doors open when they make stops.
People talk about UPS parking in bike lanes & etc. This E-Bike, if it has a reasonable turning radius could likely get around easier and quicker. And, even parking in a bike lane, the bike would fit entirely in the lane, and not be as bad of an obstruction as a UPS van.
For "events", it gets ridden onto grass with no damage to the grass.
Legality, of course, would depend a bit on whether the city promotes the E-Bikes, or fights them.
Recently there was a video posted of a German or Dutch E-Cargo company with several relatively modular "vehicles". Perhaps I'll hunt it down.
Our local bike co-op makes what they call "tri-haulers". Most of them are now electrified, recumbents. 100% front wheel drive (plus rear brakes).
I think the cost is around $3000 to $4000 each.
Unfortunately, they really don't make many new ones of them now. However, the design is a pretty simple design, quite modular, and could likely be made for less if one is making several.
They have experimented a bit with roofs (rebuilding the one bike above). I think the current version has a surfboard like greenhouse plastic roof on it.
I don't think it is completely weatherproof, or secure, but there is no reason why it could't be made to be lockable and weatherproof.
Oh, it looks like they made the box bigger, I think on the same trike base.
Note, UPS frequently leaves the doors open when they make stops.
People talk about UPS parking in bike lanes & etc. This E-Bike, if it has a reasonable turning radius could likely get around easier and quicker. And, even parking in a bike lane, the bike would fit entirely in the lane, and not be as bad of an obstruction as a UPS van.
For "events", it gets ridden onto grass with no damage to the grass.
Legality, of course, would depend a bit on whether the city promotes the E-Bikes, or fights them.
Recently there was a video posted of a German or Dutch E-Cargo company with several relatively modular "vehicles". Perhaps I'll hunt it down.
I was looking into E-bikes not long ago. The question is range with maximum load. I have looked at some pretty big battery options and hills, wind a weight are distance killers. Like I said contractors aren't likely to get the best areas closest to the warehouse or fulfillment centers. If you are hauling office supplies that can be 1000 pounds. You cannot scoot along at 20 mph with that rig. I doubt if you could cover 15 miles with it loaded. So the question remains what happens with 80 deliveries even if by some miracle they were a mile apart? Run out of juice and you are finished. So who is going to pony up the 4K? And yes the Europeans have the most range but much higher prices. https://optibike.com/model-overview/ now picture one of those with a box like you posted on it. If you drop that kind of coin and they don't renew your contract it is as bad as investing the 10k on a van. IMHO
06-30-18, 06:22 PM
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OK TP. I will be positive. You should take advantage of Amazon's offer. Promise to meet the delivery quota they require to make a living wage. Maybe you can get someone in a van to bring the deliveries to you for free so you don't have to split the cost. In fact I am sure you can. I am sure you can replace those vans with a bicycle and a bar code scanner. Pay no attention to any of my objections from before. You know best and are sure of it. I bet Amazon might give you a bonus for coming up with a solution to their increasing delivery needs by slowing down deliveries to cycling speeds. After all Florida if flat compared to Portland or San Francisco. Let me know how it works out.
06-30-18, 06:58 PM
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I've ridden a bit with the CAT bike above (but not ridden it). They can carry up to 500 pounds or so on their trailer, plus another couple hundred pounds on the bike. So, it does get really heavy.
They've had some issues with motors, but I think have found one that they haven't burnt out for a while.
They can scoot along at a pretty good pace on the flats, but do slow down a bit on the hills.
I don't think their battery pack is that big, so they're mooching power any chance they can get. Many of their trips are < 10 miles each way. But, one could use a somewhat larger battery pack for a bit more range. Obviously limited a bit by weight.
As mentioned, if one had a modular setup of cargo containers, then one would recharge with every new container change. I don't know if that would be enough, but it all depends on the fine details of distance per weight/volume.
The thing will move without the motor, but I don't think I'd want to be regularly pedaling it with 500 lbs. Also, note our CAT bike is recumbent, while the UPS bike is upright. I am still testing recumbents, but seem to get more power from the uprights, but likely more comfort from the recumbents. They use a funky seat steering of their recumbent trihaulers.
They've had some issues with motors, but I think have found one that they haven't burnt out for a while.
They can scoot along at a pretty good pace on the flats, but do slow down a bit on the hills.
I don't think their battery pack is that big, so they're mooching power any chance they can get. Many of their trips are < 10 miles each way. But, one could use a somewhat larger battery pack for a bit more range. Obviously limited a bit by weight.
As mentioned, if one had a modular setup of cargo containers, then one would recharge with every new container change. I don't know if that would be enough, but it all depends on the fine details of distance per weight/volume.
The thing will move without the motor, but I don't think I'd want to be regularly pedaling it with 500 lbs. Also, note our CAT bike is recumbent, while the UPS bike is upright. I am still testing recumbents, but seem to get more power from the uprights, but likely more comfort from the recumbents. They use a funky seat steering of their recumbent trihaulers.
06-30-18, 07:33 PM
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I've ridden a bit with the CAT bike above (but not ridden it). They can carry up to 500 pounds or so on their trailer, plus another couple hundred pounds on the bike. So, it does get really heavy.
They've had some issues with motors, but I think have found one that they haven't burnt out for a while.
They can scoot along at a pretty good pace on the flats, but do slow down a bit on the hills.
I don't think their battery pack is that big, so they're mooching power any chance they can get. Many of their trips are < 10 miles each way. But, one could use a somewhat larger battery pack for a bit more range. Obviously limited a bit by weight.
As mentioned, if one had a modular setup of cargo containers, then one would recharge with every new container change. I don't know if that would be enough, but it all depends on the fine details of distance per weight/volume.
The thing will move without the motor, but I don't think I'd want to be regularly pedaling it with 500 lbs. Also, note our CAT bike is recumbent, while the UPS bike is upright. I am still testing recumbents, but seem to get more power from the uprights, but likely more comfort from the recumbents. They use a funky seat steering of their recumbent trihaulers.
They've had some issues with motors, but I think have found one that they haven't burnt out for a while.
They can scoot along at a pretty good pace on the flats, but do slow down a bit on the hills.
I don't think their battery pack is that big, so they're mooching power any chance they can get. Many of their trips are < 10 miles each way. But, one could use a somewhat larger battery pack for a bit more range. Obviously limited a bit by weight.
As mentioned, if one had a modular setup of cargo containers, then one would recharge with every new container change. I don't know if that would be enough, but it all depends on the fine details of distance per weight/volume.
The thing will move without the motor, but I don't think I'd want to be regularly pedaling it with 500 lbs. Also, note our CAT bike is recumbent, while the UPS bike is upright. I am still testing recumbents, but seem to get more power from the uprights, but likely more comfort from the recumbents. They use a funky seat steering of their recumbent trihaulers.
Bents are more comfortable but they suck on hills even without a box. You need a crank motor for the best torque and range. Still reading the reviews when trying to pick one for myself a E-bike that might take me 60 miles with pedal assist on the flats will just get me 15 miles on a 5000 foot climb. Good spare batteries run about $1000.00 or a little less so the bike I am looking at has the 900 watt battery and is supposed to get 80 miles on a charge using stage one assist. But if I were to add a trailer and 500 pounds who knows how that will effect the distance. The whole thing boils down to distance per charge. Today's E-bikes really cannot be expected to cover more than 30 miles worth of deliveries with any weight. That is only 30 packages if it was dense enough for one mile deliveries. It would never work if the deliveries were three miles apart.
If you do contact Amazon please let us know what they think of your idea.
06-30-18, 08:08 PM
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I'd have to carefully consider batteries. I'm seeing used 2KWH battery packs for about 36 lbs, $500.
So, 100 lbs of batteries would give one about 6 KWH, and still be a moderately reasonable load. Obviously deep cycling could be problematic.
Say one rides at 500W, continuous. T'hen that should give about 10 hours ride time.
Is that enough power/time? Too deep cycling?
What about loads/battery exchanges?
I have to think about speed a bit. I can get a whopping 3 MPH on my cargo bike fully loaded.
06-30-18, 11:10 PM
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Amazon is starting to cross the line to my image was made with invisible pixels I guess,it was a bunch of little red triangles that said SCAM.
If you have read about their scheme for fleet drivers.
If you have read about their scheme for fleet drivers.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
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06-30-18, 11:58 PM
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I don't know. TP is convinced this plan will work if they just hire LCF cyclists to deliver their packages. These quick and agile cyclists should be able to pick up the deliveries and drop them off faster than any van and Amazon just needs to see the light. I am sure he can do it. Lets be positive.
07-01-18, 07:22 AM
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Every van you cut out of the system saves money UNLESS the vans are being sold at $10k for a profit, in which case the more vans they use, the more profit they make from selling the vans. If that's the case, there's not much hope in using efficiency to save money, because they're making extra money by being more inefficient and thus selling more vans.
edit: I found this article that lays out what the business idea behind Amazon's plan: It seems that Mercedes vans are going to be sold and they're trying to find entrepreneurs to buy 20-40 vans, so apparently there's an overstock of these vans and they want to boost their sales numbers and thus sell higher sales to investors. So I'm sure they wouldn't want any bike-couriers or other efficiency tweaks to get in their way of maximizing van sales by billing it as an opportunity for entrepreneurs to buy the vans in fleets.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40590799...r-its-packages
edit: I found this article that lays out what the business idea behind Amazon's plan: It seems that Mercedes vans are going to be sold and they're trying to find entrepreneurs to buy 20-40 vans, so apparently there's an overstock of these vans and they want to boost their sales numbers and thus sell higher sales to investors. So I'm sure they wouldn't want any bike-couriers or other efficiency tweaks to get in their way of maximizing van sales by billing it as an opportunity for entrepreneurs to buy the vans in fleets.
https://www.fastcompany.com/40590799...r-its-packages
07-01-18, 07:36 AM
#88
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I don't know. TP is convinced this plan will work if they just hire LCF cyclists to deliver their packages. These quick and agile cyclists should be able to pick up the deliveries and drop them off faster than any van and Amazon just needs to see the light. I am sure he can do it. Lets be positive.
Indeed I have biked around the Florida peninsula quite a bit, and while there are many rural areas with only a few houses per mile, there are many neighborhoods and subdivision where houses are every 100 feet or so. That means a van could run more efficiently by picking up a large weather-proof crate of packages and dropping it off in a neighborhood/area for car-free delivery by whatever means. In fact, it would probably be most efficient to use a vehicle with tow-hitch plus a trailer and then simply park the trailer and unhitch it. If the trailer had lockers built into it, Amazon could load the deliveries into the lockers before having it towed out of the warehouse. With different-sized lockers, packages could be fit efficiently with little wasted space.
Now what to do with the unhitched trailers once they are parked near the entrance to a subdivision or other neighborhood. There are several options: 1) simply allow people to pick up their packages by giving them a locker code. Most people probably go out and come back through the entrance to their subdivision or neighborhood, so it wouldn't be inconvenient to pick up their package this way. For those who find it inconvenient to go to the locker, local people could receive discounts to go pickup someone's package and deliver it. Kids would probably love to do this and receive a discount on shipping or digital downloads like video games. If there aren't enough (willing) kids in the area, there are probably also adults willing to do it or someone would be willing to bike there to run people's packages around to their doors for a few hours for $1/package. Large packages would be a problem for cyclists, but I'm sure there would be someone with a car who wants to bring those, e.g. a pizza delivery driver.
The thing you should keep in mind and really have a positive attitude about is that bikes are the right tool for the right (delivery) job in many cases. I can carry just about as many groceries on my bike as I could in a car. When I am with someone in a car and we stop for groceries, I don't get more than I get when I am biking because I get the right amount when biking. It is the same with delivering packages. Most packages probably just weigh a pound or two or less, so you can stack them on a luggage rack. That means you could easily carry 5 - 10 small packages without even installing a front rack or panniers. If local kids could get $10 worth of Amazon or Steam credit for delivering 10 packages around their local neighborhood or subdivision, they'd be elated. The only people who'd be disappointed are the van sales bean counters and the drivers who wanted to get more hours by going door-to-door instead of just shuttling trailers to and from a warehouse and hitching/unhitching them.
07-01-18, 07:43 AM
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Amazon isn't selling any vans. They get you discounts on vans,insurance etc. Amazon doesn't care about vans Amazon cares about getting packages delivered. They want each business to be 20-40 vans or more. https://d3a8hw3k243rpe.cloudfront.ne...d_Brochure.pdf
Less corporate friends means less kickback business deals and more dealing with customers at more affordable prices
07-01-18, 08:37 AM
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Amazon isn't selling any vans. They get you discounts on vans,insurance etc. Amazon doesn't care about vans Amazon cares about getting packages delivered. They want each business to be 20-40 vans or more. https://d3a8hw3k243rpe.cloudfront.ne...d_Brochure.pdf
"If you’re a customer-obsessed people person and enjoy coaching teams in a high-speed environment, this is the ideal opportunity for you."
If you are a moralistic person obsessed with "automotivist" conspiracy theories, an ascetic unable to work/play/associate with anybody who doesn't share your unique and peculiar views, this probably would not be an ideal opportunity.
But then again, what would?
07-01-18, 09:33 AM
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Extract from the referenced Amazon brochure:
"If you’re a customer-obsessed people person and enjoy coaching teams in a high-speed environment, this is the ideal opportunity for you."
If you are a moralistic person obsessed with "automotivist" conspiracy theories, an ascetic unable to work/play/associate with anybody who doesn't share your unique and peculiar views, this probably would not be an ideal opportunity.
But then again, what would?
"If you’re a customer-obsessed people person and enjoy coaching teams in a high-speed environment, this is the ideal opportunity for you."
If you are a moralistic person obsessed with "automotivist" conspiracy theories, an ascetic unable to work/play/associate with anybody who doesn't share your unique and peculiar views, this probably would not be an ideal opportunity.
But then again, what would?
TPs plan would only require Amazon employees to load the truck so I suppose they would own it. He just needs someone to deliver the truck or trailer to a neighborhood and drop it off. I guess you might have to pay that employee as well.
Now the beauty of his plan is the options for getting the packages to the customer.
1. Cyclists will have access to the trailer/lockers and they will deliver the packages, I suppose with a scanner to prove the delivery has been made. Amazon only has to pay those cyclists as sub contractors.
2. The customer has access to the trailer/lockers. There must be a scanner in the trailer/locker to prove delivery. The customer gets a discount for picking up a package they bought online.
3. A neighbor picks up the package. I guess the neighbor has access as well.
4. Kids can deliver the packages and get credit from Amazon. Not sure if they have access but TP can work that out.
The trailer/lockers have to stay at the site over night because every customer might not pick up their package on the same day.
I sure he can sell this plan to Amazon. As for me I would request UPS at the same price but that is just me.
Let us wish TP luck selling this plan
07-01-18, 09:34 AM
#92
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Discounts are a marketing tool. When a company creates a situation that promotes sales of another company's product(s), they become friends and help each other in various ways. It seems like a nice, synergistic business situation until you realize they are scratching each others' backs with your money as a consumer. If packages can be delivered with less vans, less insurance, and lower costs generally, it translates into more affordable pricing and more profits for Amazon and their sellers; but then they lose their friendships with van makers, insurers, etc. Less corporate friends means less kickback business deals and more dealing with customers at more affordable prices
Less corporate friends means less kickback business deals and more dealing with customers at more affordable prices This is how fleet sales work. You tell a manufacturer/distributor/upfitter you can sell/lease 1000 vans spec'd out the same, you will get a substantial discount to someone who will be buying 1-20. I work for a place that buys many vehicles from cars to heavy duty trucks every year. You write a spec (or name a model) put it out to bid (often combined with other buyers) and buy from the lowest bidder. No body is getting any kickbacks (well maybe some sports tickets after the sale). Most vehicle manufacturers (especially commercial level stuff) have regular fleet programs in place and still sell through individual dealers to the purchaser. Fleet programs are so comprehensive that you can actually delete standard items on a vehicle (radio/seats/power stuff) and get things like a "fleet" bench seat or manual windows in a pickup that a regular consumer couldn't even order.
Once again, Amazon will not order/buy/lease these vehicles, the private contractor will.They just set up a standard spec vehicle the contractor can purchase/lease at a discount. If you ever look around many supply houses/distributors don't own their trucks they lease or contract our delivery.
https://www.menards.com/main/footer/...es/c-19223.htm
https://www.gmfleet.com/
https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/discover/fleet-program
There is nothing to stop you or anyone else to take them up on this opportunity and implement your idea. Amazon really doesn't care how you perform your end of the contract, just that you perform to the contract requirements. You could do it on last mile bikes or even Amazon blue llamas if you can meet the contract requirements and make enough profit to stay in business. I say pony up and give it that LCF entrepreneur, can do try.
Last edited by dedhed; 07-01-18 at 09:46 AM.
07-01-18, 09:46 AM
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Nowhere does it say you have to own or lease their specific van it just makes it easier to spec out a vehicle to standard specs. Manufacturers like building quantities without changes. If you already own 20 E-350's or stepvans you'd probably only have to paint the logo on. This is how fleet sales work. You tell a manufacturer/distributor/upfitter you can sell/lease 1000 vans spec'd out the same, you will get a substantial discount to someone who will be buying 1-20. I work for a place that buys many vehicles from cars to heavy duty trucks every year. You write a spec (or name a model) put it out to bid (often combined with other buyers) and buy from the lowest bidder. No body is getting any kickbacks (well maybe some sports tickets after the sale). Most vehicle manufacturers (especially commercial level stuff) have regular fleet programs in place and still sell through individual dealers to the purchaser. Fleet programs are so comprehensive that you can actually delete standard items on a vehicle (radio/seats/power stuff) and get things like a "fleet" bench seat or manual windows in a pickup that a regular consumer couldn't even order.
Once again, Amazon will not order/buy/lease these vehicles, the private contractor will.They just set up a standard spec vehicle the contractor can purchase/lease at a discount. If you ever look around many supply houses/distributors don't own their trucks they lease or contract our delivery.
https://www.menards.com/main/footer/...es/c-19223.htm
https://www.gmfleet.com/
https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/discover/fleet-program
Once again, Amazon will not order/buy/lease these vehicles, the private contractor will.They just set up a standard spec vehicle the contractor can purchase/lease at a discount. If you ever look around many supply houses/distributors don't own their trucks they lease or contract our delivery.
https://www.menards.com/main/footer/...es/c-19223.htm
https://www.gmfleet.com/
https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/discover/fleet-program
TP is looking towards a different world,
07-01-18, 09:49 AM
#94
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A person needs to use a "Critical Thinking" process that includes using a Reality Distortion Filter to "see" the automovist conspirators at work in this operation. This process also includes the bonus property of dismissing any reason to acknowledge errors or mistakes on the Thinker's part.
07-01-18, 10:10 AM
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As soon as I read that sentence I knew exactly the direction this thread was headed to.
Ok, so why don't you contact Amazon and present them with your brilliant business idea ??...Who knows, maybe they will accept your idea and you can start your own bicycle delivery system and become the first car-free millionaire ever.
Here is the solution I came up with: One van can act as a 'mother-ship' for a large load of packages. Then, cyclists make deliveries and return to the mothership as it moves through a general route central to the deliveries. This way, one van could potentially suffice where multiple vans would be needed in the absence of cyclists.
07-01-18, 11:36 AM
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Nowhere does it say you have to own or lease their specific van it just makes it easier to spec out a vehicle to standard specs. Manufacturers like building quantities without changes. If you already own 20 E-350's or stepvans you'd probably only have to paint the logo on.
This is how fleet sales work. You tell a manufacturer/distributor/upfitter you can sell/lease 1000 vans spec'd out the same, you will get a substantial discount to someone who will be buying 1-20. I work for a place that buys many vehicles from cars to heavy duty trucks every year. You write a spec (or name a model) put it out to bid (often combined with other buyers) and buy from the lowest bidder. No body is getting any kickbacks (well maybe some sports tickets after the sale). Most vehicle manufacturers (especially commercial level stuff) have regular fleet programs in place and still sell through individual dealers to the purchaser. Fleet programs are so comprehensive that you can actually delete standard items on a vehicle (radio/seats/power stuff) and get things like a "fleet" bench seat or manual windows in a pickup that a regular consumer couldn't even order.
Once again, Amazon will not order/buy/lease these vehicles, the private contractor will.They just set up a standard spec vehicle the contractor can purchase/lease at a discount. If you ever look around many supply houses/distributors don't own their trucks they lease or contract our delivery.
https://www.menards.com/main/footer/...es/c-19223.htm
https://www.gmfleet.com/
https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/discover/fleet-program
There is nothing to stop you or anyone else to take them up on this opportunity and implement your idea. Amazon really doesn't care how you perform your end of the contract, just that you perform to the contract requirements. You could do it on last mile bikes or even Amazon blue llamas if you can meet the contract requirements and make enough profit to stay in business. I say pony up and give it that LCF entrepreneur, can do try.
This is how fleet sales work. You tell a manufacturer/distributor/upfitter you can sell/lease 1000 vans spec'd out the same, you will get a substantial discount to someone who will be buying 1-20. I work for a place that buys many vehicles from cars to heavy duty trucks every year. You write a spec (or name a model) put it out to bid (often combined with other buyers) and buy from the lowest bidder. No body is getting any kickbacks (well maybe some sports tickets after the sale). Most vehicle manufacturers (especially commercial level stuff) have regular fleet programs in place and still sell through individual dealers to the purchaser. Fleet programs are so comprehensive that you can actually delete standard items on a vehicle (radio/seats/power stuff) and get things like a "fleet" bench seat or manual windows in a pickup that a regular consumer couldn't even order.
Once again, Amazon will not order/buy/lease these vehicles, the private contractor will.They just set up a standard spec vehicle the contractor can purchase/lease at a discount. If you ever look around many supply houses/distributors don't own their trucks they lease or contract our delivery.
https://www.menards.com/main/footer/...es/c-19223.htm
https://www.gmfleet.com/
https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/discover/fleet-program
There is nothing to stop you or anyone else to take them up on this opportunity and implement your idea. Amazon really doesn't care how you perform your end of the contract, just that you perform to the contract requirements. You could do it on last mile bikes or even Amazon blue llamas if you can meet the contract requirements and make enough profit to stay in business. I say pony up and give it that LCF entrepreneur, can do try.
I don't personally want to devote my life to parcel delivery, so my contribution goes into minimizing the amount of human time required to make these deliveries. I don't mind picking up my own package a few blocks away, but I wouldn't want to spend all my time bringing other people theirs. Maybe one day I will need a new job for money and then I will want to deliver packages, idk; but if so I would want to do it by bike. I wouldn't want to own a delivery business and manage others, which I don't think Amazon does either, which is why they are farming this out to independent contractors instead of putting them on staff.
For the benefit of everyone's independence, I would recommend fragmenting the delivery process into drivers who tow the packages in crates (or trailers ideally), and others who either deliver or pickup the packages from the trailers locally. That way the driver isn't responsible for the local (bike) couriers and the bike couriers don't have to argue over things with their support drivers. They just go to where the trailer with the packages is and pick up some parcels and deliver them. Of course security is an issue, which is why I recommend building locker-trailers that can simply be unhitched and then already have the parcels securely code-locked for whomever ultimately picks up the package for the customer.
The biggest challenge in my model is designing and building the towable locker-trailers. Amazon already has lockers around Florida but not everywhere. Locker-trailers could be loaded at the warehouse, towed to the entrance of a neighborhood or subdivision, and unhitched and a wheel lock secured to prevent theft. This would make the amount of vehicle and driving time to deliver drastically lower than with each driver doing door-to-door deliveries and also driving back and forth to the warehouse.
As for the kickbacks of wasteful business practices, that is just built into modern economics because, at some point, people got too rich to bother with real efficiency anymore. As some people on this forum point out, people don't want to make less money and have more free time, so they oppose reducing automotive culture and the corresponding economy that comes with it. What they're not saying and maybe don't realize is that it's only attractive to participate in such waste economics if there are kickbacks benefiting you in some way. If all the money you pay for the cars and fuel and insurance, maintenance, roads, highways, etc. didn't filter back to you through a complex of taxation and re-investment kickbacks, you would want to minimize your expenditures by looking for ways to cut costs, such as unnecessary automotive costs. I am recommending a way to do that here by using locker-trailers and DIY pickup and/or bike couriers between the locker-trailers and customers, but I do not have the resources to design and produce the locker-trailers for Amazon so my recommendation is what I have to give here.
Last edited by tandempower; 07-01-18 at 11:42 AM.
07-01-18, 02:14 PM
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I posted my maximum-efficiency, lowest-cost method in my 09:36 post today. As I said, I think the most efficient method would involve building locker-trailers that can be stocked at the warehouse and towed to each neighborhood/subdivision and then either picked up by people themselves or reward local kids/adults for bringing them door-to-door for online credit.
I don't personally want to devote my life to parcel delivery, so my contribution goes into minimizing the amount of human time required to make these deliveries. I don't mind picking up my own package a few blocks away, but I wouldn't want to spend all my time bringing other people theirs. Maybe one day I will need a new job for money and then I will want to deliver packages, idk; but if so I would want to do it by bike. I wouldn't want to own a delivery business and manage others, which I don't think Amazon does either, which is why they are farming this out to independent contractors instead of putting them on staff.
For the benefit of everyone's independence, I would recommend fragmenting the delivery process into drivers who tow the packages in crates (or trailers ideally), and others who either deliver or pickup the packages from the trailers locally. That way the driver isn't responsible for the local (bike) couriers and the bike couriers don't have to argue over things with their support drivers. They just go to where the trailer with the packages is and pick up some parcels and deliver them. Of course security is an issue, which is why I recommend building locker-trailers that can simply be unhitched and then already have the parcels securely code-locked for whomever ultimately picks up the package for the customer.
The biggest challenge in my model is designing and building the towable locker-trailers. Amazon already has lockers around Florida but not everywhere. Locker-trailers could be loaded at the warehouse, towed to the entrance of a neighborhood or subdivision, and unhitched and a wheel lock secured to prevent theft. This would make the amount of vehicle and driving time to deliver drastically lower than with each driver doing door-to-door deliveries and also driving back and forth to the warehouse.
As for the kickbacks of wasteful business practices, that is just built into modern economics because, at some point, people got too rich to bother with real efficiency anymore. As some people on this forum point out, people don't want to make less money and have more free time, so they oppose reducing automotive culture and the corresponding economy that comes with it. What they're not saying and maybe don't realize is that it's only attractive to participate in such waste economics if there are kickbacks benefiting you in some way. If all the money you pay for the cars and fuel and insurance, maintenance, roads, highways, etc. didn't filter back to you through a complex of taxation and re-investment kickbacks, you would want to minimize your expenditures by looking for ways to cut costs, such as unnecessary automotive costs. I am recommending a way to do that here by using locker-trailers and DIY pickup and/or bike couriers between the locker-trailers and customers, but I do not have the resources to design and produce the locker-trailers for Amazon so my recommendation is what I have to give here.
I don't personally want to devote my life to parcel delivery, so my contribution goes into minimizing the amount of human time required to make these deliveries. I don't mind picking up my own package a few blocks away, but I wouldn't want to spend all my time bringing other people theirs. Maybe one day I will need a new job for money and then I will want to deliver packages, idk; but if so I would want to do it by bike. I wouldn't want to own a delivery business and manage others, which I don't think Amazon does either, which is why they are farming this out to independent contractors instead of putting them on staff.
For the benefit of everyone's independence, I would recommend fragmenting the delivery process into drivers who tow the packages in crates (or trailers ideally), and others who either deliver or pickup the packages from the trailers locally. That way the driver isn't responsible for the local (bike) couriers and the bike couriers don't have to argue over things with their support drivers. They just go to where the trailer with the packages is and pick up some parcels and deliver them. Of course security is an issue, which is why I recommend building locker-trailers that can simply be unhitched and then already have the parcels securely code-locked for whomever ultimately picks up the package for the customer.
The biggest challenge in my model is designing and building the towable locker-trailers. Amazon already has lockers around Florida but not everywhere. Locker-trailers could be loaded at the warehouse, towed to the entrance of a neighborhood or subdivision, and unhitched and a wheel lock secured to prevent theft. This would make the amount of vehicle and driving time to deliver drastically lower than with each driver doing door-to-door deliveries and also driving back and forth to the warehouse.
As for the kickbacks of wasteful business practices, that is just built into modern economics because, at some point, people got too rich to bother with real efficiency anymore. As some people on this forum point out, people don't want to make less money and have more free time, so they oppose reducing automotive culture and the corresponding economy that comes with it. What they're not saying and maybe don't realize is that it's only attractive to participate in such waste economics if there are kickbacks benefiting you in some way. If all the money you pay for the cars and fuel and insurance, maintenance, roads, highways, etc. didn't filter back to you through a complex of taxation and re-investment kickbacks, you would want to minimize your expenditures by looking for ways to cut costs, such as unnecessary automotive costs. I am recommending a way to do that here by using locker-trailers and DIY pickup and/or bike couriers between the locker-trailers and customers, but I do not have the resources to design and produce the locker-trailers for Amazon so my recommendation is what I have to give here.
Contact them please. Do something positive. Let us know if it will work or if it is all talk.
Your plan increases personnel and decreases service to the customer. That is what you would have learned if you finished the steps in critical thinking. Testing and application. You aren’t even interested in seeing if the plan would work.
How about just explaining the money flow? Show where the profit will be made. I was willing to give you a chance as long as I thought you might do something, anything to test you plan. I never thought it would work but you could have proved me right or wrong.
Last edited by Mobile 155; 07-01-18 at 02:18 PM.
07-01-18, 05:15 PM
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As soon as I read that sentence I knew exactly the direction this thread was headed to.
Ok, so why don't you contact Amazon and present them with your brilliant business idea ??...Who knows, maybe they will accept your idea and you can start your own bicycle delivery system and become the first car-free millionaire ever.
Ok, so why don't you contact Amazon and present them with your brilliant business idea ??...Who knows, maybe they will accept your idea and you can start your own bicycle delivery system and become the first car-free millionaire ever.
If someone was going to use critical thinking to debate these things with any effectiveness they can not leave out step 3. Application. And you sure cannot forget step 6. Take action. But maybe the biggest failing is when you miss step 1. Knowledge of the problem. The posting listed the problem as Amazon offering a opportunity to start your own business by making deliveries of their products. They have indicated they want someone to pick up and deliver a set number of packages a day for a set price and will even help someone establish a fleet to accomplish that goal. 150 to 250 deliveries by one employee per van in a day. Offer to increase the number of employees or decrease the number of deliveries in a day or add expenses to the company by building additional equipment does not address the core problem.
You were correct in your first inclination as was ILTB in your prediction on where this thread was going. The Answer to dedhed says all we needed to know. " I don't personally want to devote my life to parcel delivery, so my contribution goes into minimizing the amount of human time required to make these deliveries. I don't mind picking up my own package a few blocks away, but I wouldn't want to spend all my time bringing other people theirs. Maybe one day I will need a new job for money and then I will want to deliver packages, idk; but if so I would want to do it by bike. I wouldn't want to own a delivery business and manage others, which I don't think Amazon does either, which is why they are farming this out to independent contractors instead of putting them on staff. "
The solution had nothing to do with the problem we were asked to discuss. It never did, it was a ploy to get people thinking about someone else's dream. The OP was never looking for a solution to the Amazon question.
07-01-18, 06:55 PM
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you have a phone and a computer and can write a letter. Contact Amazon and tell them you have the problem solved. Same number of deliveries with more people and taking more time. Trusting neighbors and kids to access the packages. First paying loaders, then paying drivers. Then paying cyclists to decide what they want to deliver. And lastly asking the customer to sort through a locker or trailer for their own package?
Contact them please. Do something positive. Let us know if it will work or if it is all talk.
Your plan increases personnel and decreases service to the customer. That is what you would have learned if you finished the steps in critical thinking. Testing and application. You aren’t even interested in seeing if the plan would work.
How about just explaining the money flow? Show where the profit will be made. I was willing to give you a chance as long as I thought you might do something, anything to test you plan. I never thought it would work but you could have proved me right or wrong.
07-01-18, 07:13 PM
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Profit is already being made. They just get to keep more of it if they spend less on vehicles and delivery costs. You're really good at projecting negative spin onto things you dislike. Your sarcastic tone when you talk about being positive is going to come back to bite you in the end. Watch out how negative you let your mind become. You might end up like ILTB.
Now if you can give us a time frame for one cyclist with 100 stops two or three miles apart. Remember Amazon doesn't deliver to every house only to houses that place an order. Remember you set the piece work at 1 buck a package.
Look, this isn't about you, you are just some poster with ideas tossed in the air to see where they land. People with experience in the questions you ask give you answers and you don't care. That is the real issue here. Can you do the job as well as it is being done now with your process. Can you do it without costing Amazon more money. Can you do it making as many deliveries from the warehouse with bicycles? Can you pay the drivers and the cyclists and the cost of the locker/trailers/ scanners. Can you cover large deliveries and office supplies. Or is your answer a pipe dream. I will leave it to you to find out by contacting Amazon.