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Old 01-03-16, 04:09 PM
  #376  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by oldnslow2
Agreed, but without a scanner and the right software, you can diagnose most problems with modern cars.
One big advantage to trying to do your own auto maintenance nowadays is exactly the whole electronic scanner/software stuff.

Back in the day a good mechanic had to have an ear and a ton of experience to figure out which of the numerous tiny and unstable adjustments might need to be made when a car wasn't running right---it was much more of a black art.

Nowadays it's a black box. Plug in and you can find out how your car is working in 10,000 parameters---and then punch in the data to a program which tells you what needs to be adjusted, and possibly even make the adjustments electronically.

Everything lasts longer, and everything is connected to the car's brain, so when it isn't workign, you know it. No more "it sounds like ...." Now it is, "here is exactly the problem and the solution."

And then you need an engine hoist and twelve specialized tools just to change the spark plugs.
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Old 01-03-16, 04:14 PM
  #377  
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Originally Posted by oldnslow2
Agreed, but without a scanner and the right software, you can diagnose most problems with modern cars.
I think you meant 'can't diagnose' which I agree with but you can buy a Bluetooth OBDII scanner for under $40 that will connect to free software on your smartphone and provide detailed information on the health of your car. I've got an '89 Porsche that requires an expensive proprietary diagnostic tool to perform certain maintenance. It's generally much easier these days. It's also not difficult to find detailed shop service manuals for virtually every model of car on-line.
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Old 01-03-16, 06:05 PM
  #378  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Wait, you're going to tell me that's it's just as inexpensive to work on, meaning hours spent doing the same thing, say for example the time it takes to remove a heater core from a 40 year old car vs a new car today, is the same price and just as much effort? Answer that question then I'll reply with more on what you said in your above statement and why you're not being completely honest in that statement.
I'm not sure I understand your question or your point. As to the labor time to replace a heater core, it depends on the car. If you're saying that heater cores are generally more time consuming to replace these days, you might be right, but some of the older cars were a real bear, too.
If you're saying that the manufacturers intentionally make heater cores more difficult to replace to discourage home mechanics from doing the job, then you are way off. Remember, a large chunk of what we do at the dealer is warranty work, which is paid for by the maker. Warranty costs are in the billions so making a car more time intensive to service would be against their best interest.

In my opinion the manufacturers care about manufacturing costs, warranty costs, and moving a lot of cars. The daily troubles of a dealership mechanic like me or a do it yourselfer do not enter into their thoughts.
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Old 01-03-16, 06:13 PM
  #379  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
So, what does the wife think about your addiction?

On a serious note, is the electric Campy any different in a meanigful way from the Di2?

And, are they worth it to you?
Not married ... No one to answer to except myself.

Can't begin to answer the 2nd question until I get some decent ride time in on it -which will probably be April based on weather trends - so much for our 60 plus degree December. The Campagnolo afficianados say nothing else is like Campagnolo. We'll see....

Worth it, definitely. Cycling has given me something to look forward to.
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Old 01-03-16, 06:15 PM
  #380  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
One big advantage to trying to do your own auto maintenance nowadays is exactly the whole electronic scanner/software stuff.

Back in the day a good mechanic had to have an ear and a ton of experience to figure out which of the numerous tiny and unstable adjustments might need to be made when a car wasn't running right---it was much more of a black art.

Nowadays it's a black box. Plug in and you can find out how your car is working in 10,000 parameters---and then punch in the data to a program which tells you what needs to be adjusted, and possibly even make the adjustments electronically.

Everything lasts longer, and everything is connected to the car's brain, so when it isn't workign, you know it. No more "it sounds like ...." Now it is, "here is exactly the problem and the solution."

And then you need an engine hoist and twelve specialized tools just to change the spark plugs.
Something to consider; most of what I do is engine performance diagnosis, 45-50 hours per week. Most of the repairs are electronic failures and most of those are intermittent. I do a lot of guesswork and I speak to technical assistance to find out what has been helping nationwide.
Some of our repairs are reprogramming of the various modules, but nothing is adjustable, per se.
It is unusual for a car to come to me which is doing what the driver says it was doing.
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Old 01-03-16, 07:03 PM
  #381  
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Originally Posted by TriDanny47
Not married ... No one to answer to except myself.

Can't begin to answer the 2nd question until I get some decent ride time in on it -which will probably be April based on weather trends - so much for our 60 plus degree December. The Campagnolo afficianados say nothing else is like Campagnolo. We'll see....

Worth it, definitely. Cycling has given me something to look forward to.
Now, if you were MTBing, there would not be that pesky weather issue...

Worth it, well isn't "look forward to" a huge piece of the puzzle. We do not need any of this stuff, these are all wants!
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Old 01-03-16, 07:25 PM
  #382  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
If contacting your own mother with a separate email is too much of a pain you are just a bad kid ....
This is so true it hurts. My wife wanted cellphones which we hardly ever used, then new ones, then an expensive data plan ... finally after several years she has learned to send texts ... not sure she can go online for anything but the weather, though. I could have three bikes for what we spent of phone service she not only never uses but never even learned to use.
Yeah, the idea that all life will cease if I don’t get an email the instant it is sent ... or that I need to check Facebook frequently (or at all ....) is all ridiculous. if I said no one can ride a bike without a power meter and GPS, most people would think I was foolish, but the idea that I cannot get baby pictures instantly shakes some up some people so much they’d cut off their own mothers?

You know what’s funny ... people actually used to Talk on phones. How crazy is that?

Shoot, I am so old-school, if I want to talk with a person, I will actually sometimes go visit and talk ... Face to Face!!! Yeah I must be senile .... but my parents are about 90 and every time I see them could well be the last, so sending pointless pictures doesn’t seem quite as meaningful as actually going to see them. I guess I am hopelessly outmoded, eh? I should just get irritated if they don’t immediately answer my texts, right? The Modern thing to do?

On the other hand, I went to digital cameras as soon as my wallet let me, and I have been using computers at home (and the Internet) since the late ‘80s/early ‘90s (back then, “Internet” was almost all text based and about one-ten-thousandth as full of info as it is today ... )... I was introduced to dial-up via a link to a local college when I was 12 years old through school (very early 70s) and had no problem seeing how much easier and more enjoyable life could be with a giant connected information system.

I am no atavist. I simply want to control the devices which would otherwise control me. I want to make sure the technology I use is doing more to improve my life than it is to define my life, and that it is offering more benefits that it costs.

The horror with which some people talk about not getting other people’s baby pictures (honestly, some of the most forgettable and most quickly forgotten pictures anyway) easily enough (not just not getting them, but having to send some separately and not in a group email---Oh, the Horrors!) is both sad and comical.

You want to talk about Real progress .... talk modern medicine, including pharmacology. Sure there are plenty of abuses, but I know myself and a lot of others here are alive because of incredibly high-tech medical equipment, surgical procedures that weren’t imagined a decade or two ago, and in some case because of drugs which were developed for diseases which were considered death sentences not long ago.

We aren’t fighting All technology or fighting advancement. We are avoiding foolish uses of technology and deciding for ourselves what constitutes “advancement.”

I won’t speak for anyone on this site because I don’t know you well enough, but I know a lot of people who lives could be a lot richer if they could wean themselves away from the notion that “More connectivity more of the time is inherently better.”

Go anywhere to watch people at some amazing live event holding up their phones to make recordings they will post online and never watch ... while the “curmudgeons” amongst you actually Fully Experience the event ... you know, Living Life?

Look how many people who cannot enjoy anything unless they take a selfie ... people going around the country on bikes, seeing the most awesome and amazing vistas this nation can provide ... but they cannot enjoy seeing it, don’t even think they have seen it, unless the only photo they have of it has their faces right in the middle. Then, instead of surveying the vast and beautiful vistas, they spend all their time there sending the photos to their friends ... and then spend even more time sending emotes back and forth.

Meanwhile we atavists are sitting silently absorbing the amazing beauty we might well never get another chance to see, enriching our minds and souls ... I can send empty texts all day when I am at home in my office. I can only sit on the rim of the Grand Canyon or cross the Continental divide once or very few times in the rest of this life.

Most of the folks I was traveling with probably don’t know hat’s in the back ground in those selfies ... all they comment on is whether they look good in the photo.

To which I say: chacun à son goût. If that’s what makes your thing swing, swing away, children. But as for me ... please don’t let me bother you as I sit silently actually appreciating the few fleeting moments I have left in my life.

When I am lying on my death bed breathing my last I might have some regrets, but I can absolutely assure you, the fact that I didn’t get the last round of some near-stranger’s baby pictures won’t be anywhere near my mind.
Congratulations. You just won BF curmudgeon post of the week award. I'm impressed. (seriously)
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Old 01-03-16, 08:25 PM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
Now, if you were MTBing, there would not be that pesky weather issue...

Worth it, well isn't "look forward to" a huge piece of the puzzle. We do not need any of this stuff, these are all wants!
I didn't say I wasn't riding ... Just not riding a road bike until spring - maybe - I will if there is ice-free pavement. Just depends on the crazy weather.
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Old 01-03-16, 09:57 PM
  #384  
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Originally Posted by ErichVonCartman
Everything I say is 100% spot on accurate based on the samples I collected. However, even I know that if whatever I say conflicts with all the cool kids, they will go cry to mommy-Moderator and have me banned.

It's OK though, I don't really need the Forums, and they really don't need me, so at least it's mutual. The last thing I want to do is upset all the cool kids
and let's be honest, with Erich around, all the Cool Kids do get upset!
Originally Posted by ErichVonCartman
just don't go tell mommy-moderator on me! and have me banned. It would be nice if the cool kids would let me stick around for a little bit longer.
So do you want to be here or not? Why do you hate mommy-moderator?
__________________
Originally Posted by making
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 01-03-16, 10:31 PM
  #385  
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
So do you want to be here or not? Why do you hate mommy-moderator?
I want to be here! and Erich loves Mommy-Moderator! Erich loves all... but the cool kids do NOT love Erich back as they always report Erich to Moms then Erich gets in trouble
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Old 01-04-16, 03:26 AM
  #386  
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I learned a long time ago that if you stop swatting at annoying little flies, they soon lose interest and fly off to annoy someone else!




Last edited by Gerryattrick; 01-04-16 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 01-04-16, 08:02 AM
  #387  
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Originally Posted by Gerryattrick
I learned a long time ago that if you stop swatting at annoying little flies, they soon lose interest and fly off to annoy someone else!




why are you swatting at the flies in the first place?
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Old 01-04-16, 08:44 AM
  #388  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
If contacting your own mother with a separate email is too much of a pain you are just a bad kid ....
This is so true it hurts. My wife wanted cellphones which we hardly ever used, then new ones, then an expensive data plan ... finally after several years she has learned to send texts ... not sure she can go online for anything but the weather, though. I could have three bikes for what we spent of phone service she not only never uses but never even learned to use.
Yeah, the idea that all life will cease if I don’t get an email the instant it is sent ... or that I need to check Facebook frequently (or at all ....) is all ridiculous. if I said no one can ride a bike without a power meter and GPS, most people would think I was foolish, but the idea that I cannot get baby pictures instantly shakes some up some people so much they’d cut off their own mothers?

You know what’s funny ... people actually used to Talk on phones. How crazy is that?

Shoot, I am so old-school, if I want to talk with a person, I will actually sometimes go visit and talk ... Face to Face!!! Yeah I must be senile .... but my parents are about 90 and every time I see them could well be the last, so sending pointless pictures doesn’t seem quite as meaningful as actually going to see them. I guess I am hopelessly outmoded, eh? I should just get irritated if they don’t immediately answer my texts, right? The Modern thing to do?

On the other hand, I went to digital cameras as soon as my wallet let me, and I have been using computers at home (and the Internet) since the late ‘80s/early ‘90s (back then, “Internet” was almost all text based and about one-ten-thousandth as full of info as it is today ... )... I was introduced to dial-up via a link to a local college when I was 12 years old through school (very early 70s) and had no problem seeing how much easier and more enjoyable life could be with a giant connected information system.

I am no atavist. I simply want to control the devices which would otherwise control me. I want to make sure the technology I use is doing more to improve my life than it is to define my life, and that it is offering more benefits that it costs.

The horror with which some people talk about not getting other people’s baby pictures (honestly, some of the most forgettable and most quickly forgotten pictures anyway) easily enough (not just not getting them, but having to send some separately and not in a group email---Oh, the Horrors!) is both sad and comical.

You want to talk about Real progress .... talk modern medicine, including pharmacology. Sure there are plenty of abuses, but I know myself and a lot of others here are alive because of incredibly high-tech medical equipment, surgical procedures that weren’t imagined a decade or two ago, and in some case because of drugs which were developed for diseases which were considered death sentences not long ago.

We aren’t fighting All technology or fighting advancement. We are avoiding foolish uses of technology and deciding for ourselves what constitutes “advancement.”

I won’t speak for anyone on this site because I don’t know you well enough, but I know a lot of people who lives could be a lot richer if they could wean themselves away from the notion that “More connectivity more of the time is inherently better.”

Go anywhere to watch people at some amazing live event holding up their phones to make recordings they will post online and never watch ... while the “curmudgeons” amongst you actually Fully Experience the event ... you know, Living Life?

Look how many people who cannot enjoy anything unless they take a selfie ... people going around the country on bikes, seeing the most awesome and amazing vistas this nation can provide ... but they cannot enjoy seeing it, don’t even think they have seen it, unless the only photo they have of it has their faces right in the middle. Then, instead of surveying the vast and beautiful vistas, they spend all their time there sending the photos to their friends ... and then spend even more time sending emotes back and forth.

Meanwhile we atavists are sitting silently absorbing the amazing beauty we might well never get another chance to see, enriching our minds and souls ... I can send empty texts all day when I am at home in my office. I can only sit on the rim of the Grand Canyon or cross the Continental divide once or very few times in the rest of this life.

Most of the folks I was traveling with probably don’t know hat’s in the back ground in those selfies ... all they comment on is whether they look good in the photo.

To which I say: chacun à son goût. If that’s what makes your thing swing, swing away, children. But as for me ... please don’t let me bother you as I sit silently actually appreciating the few fleeting moments I have left in my life.

When I am lying on my death bed breathing my last I might have some regrets, but I can absolutely assure you, the fact that I didn’t get the last round of some near-stranger’s baby pictures won’t be anywhere near my mind.
Wow, that is an epoch. Maelochs needs Maalox.
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Old 01-04-16, 09:12 AM
  #389  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Wow, that is an epoch. Maelochs needs Maalox.
What flavor?

And, can we talk about bikes, before we return to fly swatting?

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Old 01-04-16, 09:15 AM
  #390  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
What flavor?

And, can we talk about bikes, before we return to fly swatting?

Why stop now? Seriously, this thread went off the rails straight out of the depot.
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Old 01-04-16, 09:24 AM
  #391  
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Given I am interested in bikes, I will provide a few examples of decisions I have had to make recently or might be making, and maybe others can provide their thoughts.

When I built my SS MTB, I had a couple of decisions to make in an effort to keep the budget at $3,000-4,000. The first was the rims. I went with alloy over CF. The CF would have been slightly lighter, but would have cost 4 times as much money (I am talking specifically about the rims, not wheels). After 10 or so rides, I believe it was a decent decision, meaning I do not believe it would have impacted my enjoyment/performance much. The other decision was brakes. I went with Guide RSCs over XTRs, about 1/2 the price. The RSCs have better feel, but the XTRs have better power. So, I think this was a good decision. However, I have XTRs on my Epic, and for some reason this decision bugs me a little.

I am thinking about the SWorks Epic. The front suspension is ridiculously cool, and I have heard that it functions like a dream. However, my Epic WC is an incredible bike. Also, I just do not know if I still have it in me to push a bike like this hard enough to enjoy the differences.

Bike talk, love it!
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Old 01-04-16, 09:25 AM
  #392  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Why stop now? Seriously, this thread went off the rails straight out of the depot.
There has been a fair amount of bike talk. Also, how can you recommend Maalox and not specify a flavor? Are you nuts?
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Old 01-04-16, 09:29 AM
  #393  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
There has been a fair amount of bike talk. Also, how can you recommend Maalox and not specify a flavor? Are you nuts?
Right, this being 50+

Make mine grape.
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Old 01-04-16, 09:38 AM
  #394  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
Given I am interested in bikes, I will provide a few examples of decisions I have had to make recently or might be making, and maybe others can provide their thoughts.

When I built my SS MTB, I had a couple of decisions to make in an effort to keep the budget at $3,000-4,000. The first was the rims. I went with alloy over CF. The CF would have been slightly lighter, but would have cost 4 times as much money (I am talking specifically about the rims, not wheels). After 10 or so rides, I believe it was a decent decision, meaning I do not believe it would have impacted my enjoyment/performance much. The other decision was brakes. I went with Guide RSCs over XTRs, about 1/2 the price. The RSCs have better feel, but the XTRs have better power. So, I think this was a good decision. However, I have XTRs on my Epic, and for some reason this decision bugs me a little.

I am thinking about the SWorks Epic. The front suspension is ridiculously cool, and I have heard that it functions like a dream. However, my Epic WC is an incredible bike. Also, I just do not know if I still have it in me to push a bike like this hard enough to enjoy the differences.

Bike talk, love it!
Do you ride the SS on challenging trails? We have an avid MTB area (being ski resort country) that produces pro and semi-pro riders. There is a guy here in town that rides SS offroad exclusively. My being a thorobred roadie, have a difficult time completely giving myself to enjoying even a 3x7 Trek out on our brutal hills. I get the Fixie/SS roadies but the SS MTB thing is a bit archaic if not herculean in nature. I find my MTB more enjoyable than the trainer this winter and perhaps a better platform for spring conditioning on our many hills.
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Old 01-04-16, 09:57 AM
  #395  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Do you ride the SS on challenging trails? We have an avid MTB area (being ski resort country) that produces pro and semi-pro riders. There is a guy here in town that rides SS offroad exclusively. My being a thorobred roadie, have a difficult time completely giving myself to enjoying even a 3x7 Trek out on our brutal hills. I get the Fixie/SS roadies but the SS MTB thing is a bit archaic if not herculean in nature. I find my MTB more enjoyable than the trainer this winter and perhaps a better platform for spring conditioning on our many hills.
I ride it on black diamond trails, so yes to challenging trails. I love it because it makes trails that I have ridden many, many times feel new. So, I switch back and forth between this and my squishy one. Plus, it is an amazing workout. Also, the modern fully rigid SS MTB is far superior to my 1984 Rockhopper!!! Road biking for me is commuting and rides on pretty roads, plus the commuting conditions me for MTBing.
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Old 01-04-16, 10:00 AM
  #396  
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Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Do you ride the SS on challenging trails? We have an avid MTB area (being ski resort country) that produces pro and semi-pro riders. There is a guy here in town that rides SS offroad exclusively. My being a thorobred roadie, have a difficult time completely giving myself to enjoying even a 3x7 Trek out on our brutal hills. I get the Fixie/SS roadies but the SS MTB thing is a bit archaic if not herculean in nature. I find my MTB more enjoyable than the trainer this winter and perhaps a better platform for spring conditioning on our many hills.
SS MTB is OldsCOOL.

Sorry. Had to be said.
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Old 01-04-16, 10:05 AM
  #397  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
SS MTB is OldsCOOL.

Sorry. Had to be said.
I resemble that remark.

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Old 01-04-16, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerryattrick
I learned a long time ago that if you stop swatting at annoying little flies, they soon lose interest and fly off to annoy someone else!




Or, there's this.

https://www.amazon.com/Yellow-2-0-Sal...rds=bug+a-salt

I want one.
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Proud parent of a happy inner child ...

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Old 01-04-16, 11:13 AM
  #399  
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Originally Posted by TriDanny47
Not married ... No one to answer to except myself.

Can't begin to answer the 2nd question until I get some decent ride time in on it -which will probably be April based on weather trends - so much for our 60 plus degree December. The Campagnolo afficianados say nothing else is like Campagnolo. We'll see....

Worth it, definitely. Cycling has given me something to look forward to.
Campy is not just a group of components, its a way of life.
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Old 01-04-16, 11:21 AM
  #400  
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That's what they tell me. Like acquiring a taste for premium Scotch or Cognac....



So, this is the new Kestrel with Campy SR EPS. I can be as "frugal" as anyone - it was deeply discounted at Performance. I wasn't necessarily planning on getting another road bike with electronic shifting, but it was there, so I bought it.

Last edited by TriDanny47; 01-04-16 at 11:41 AM.
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