PartyBIble

Trying to figure out what size I need. I am about 5'10" 33-23inch inseem. I am looking at the frame below to build. Any advice would be great.

1985 Waterford Schwinn Paramount Campagnolo Columbus Frame Fork | eBay

bbattle

That size frame looks about right.

Here is an online fit calculator: Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist

busdriver1959

I'm 5'10" and about the same inseam. I ride a 56cm seat tube and like a 56cm top tube. That frame looks to me to be a 54cm seat tube but the seller says it's a 52 by his measurement. Normally I'd say it's too small but I'm not sure the seller measured well and the top tube looks long so it will work if that's the case. I'd ask the seller how it was measured before I bought it.
also, check out the fit calculator bbattle suggested.

PartyBIble

The serial is 535, so I assume that is a 53.5, cant seem to find the 1985 paramount geometry.

Scooper

Yes; the frame is 535mm from the crank center to the top of the seat tube (where the seatpost is inserted). I don't have the '85 geo chart, but I believe it's the same as the '86.



Is the inseam you mention your trousers inseam or your leg length?

This chart is pretty good as a starting point to size a traditional horizontal top tube frame. I think the 53.5cm (21") Paramount frame may be too small for you.

Scooper

Here's the '84 geometry chart, so I'm pretty certain the '85 is the same as the '84 and '86.

PartyBIble

Stan,
thanks for digging all of this up. My googlefu must be off. I think you right it's a bit small. I'll redo my measurements, I've always bought based on tt length and my last well fitted bike was a Merlin's TR in a 55. Looks like I need a 55-56 in a paramount.

Scooper

On a stock frame, the top tube length is the more important dimension so as not to feel too stretched out or too cramped. You can always raise the seatpost to get the right saddle height on a smaller frame, but that sometimes requires a tall stem to get a comfortable saddle-to-bar drop. Life is full of compromises.

Scooper

BTW, in 1989 Schwinn produced a "short top tube" Paramount for riders with proportionally long legs/short torsos like me. They're fairly rare, but show up occasionally.

miamijim

It's too small. The OP should be riding something with a 56cm TT C2C +/-.

Jukkaa

I got today 1990 Paramount Track.


Do you Scooper have 1990 Paramount catalog where are track frames?
Is the tubing Columbus SLX on track frames. At least in road Paramounts it is. And is the seatpost 27.2?

Scooper

Yes; I have the 1990 catalog that shows the geometry for the Paramount Classic (SLX tubing for smaller frames and SL tubing with SP down tube for larger frames) and the O.S. Road Frames (PDG/True Temper OS tubing).

According to the 1990 Parts & Accessories catalogs, the track frames that year were available as a custom option. That usually means the frame tubing and geometry would be specified by the customer. If the customer chose SLX, it would have a 27.2mm seatpost. If the customer specified PDG/True Temper OS tubing, it wold have taken a 27.4mm seatpost.

The best way to tell whether it's SLX or SL/SP, or PDG/True Temper OS is to measure the top tube and down tube diameters. If the top tube is 25.4mm and the down tube is 28.6mm, the tubing is Columbus SLX or SL/SP. If the top tube is 28.6mm and the down tube is 31.7mm, the tubing is PDG/True Temper OS.

For $50 Waterford will provide you with a provenance report telling you what you have.

John E

Interesting leg length / height / frame size chart. At 5-8 with a 30" trouser inseam, it says I should be riding a 54 to 56cm frame. The Capo and the Bianchi are 55cm C-T, and I they fit me perfectly. The Peugeot is 53.5cm, but very long in the top tube.

Scooper

That isn't surprising. The ratio of top tube length to seat tube length for stock (not custom) frames is based on the individual manufacturers' experiences with the body proportions (torso length and arm length to leg length ratio) of average riders of different overall height. Some manufacturers bias their stock frames with longer top tubes relative to the seat tube length, while other manufacturers bias their stock frames with relatively shorter top tubes.

The chart in the post above is generic and is based on industry averages, so it should be used as a sizing guide just to get a rider in the ballpark rather than as a hard and fast rule for frame sizing.

Jukkaa

Thanks a lot for information.
Tubes diameter is 25.6 (top) and 29.0 (down). So it's Columbus SLX/SL.
Bottom bracket/serial number says that its size 57. There is also Cinelli logo at bottom bracket shell.
Some old ebay listing said that there are only five Paramount track frames that are made at year 1990.

And picture also:

Scooper

Very cool and very rare. In that size (57cm) it's SLX and takes a 27.2mm seatpost.

Congratulations on a nice find.

PartyBIble

Think I fond one that will work in the color I want. Can someone beak down the code? 560BWJ8810?

Scooper

56cm seat tube length from BB center to top of seat lug. The "B" is the length of the fork steerer tube and is consistent with a 56cm frame. "W" means the frame was made at the PDG facility in Waterford, WI. J8810 means it was the 10th Paramount frame scheduled for production in September, 1988.

The 1988 stock 56cm Paramount frame has a 555mm top tube (c-t-c), 73° HTA, 75° STA, 70mm BB drop, 410mm chainstay length, 40mm fork rake, and 355mm fork height.

PartyBIble

Thanks a million Stan.