Cinelli Restoration - What Have We Here?
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Cinelli Restoration - What Have We Here?
A friend of mine is restoring this old Cinelli. We would appreciate any information you can provide regarding its provenance.
The biggest mystery to us is the fork. The threaded steerer tube is considerably longer than needed for a conventional headset and quill stem. Did Cinelli ever make bikes with clamp-style stems? Is this a Model B fork? Perhaps this is not the original fork. In that case, is there any way to determine whether this is an SC or a Model B?
Avert your eyes if you faint at the sight of bicycle butchery!
This frame will need a new seat tube. Evidently a previous owner attempted to remove a stuck seatpost with a poorly aligned lathe.
A few more photos.
I'm up against the 10 photo limit; will include a couple more photos in the next post.
Brent
The biggest mystery to us is the fork. The threaded steerer tube is considerably longer than needed for a conventional headset and quill stem. Did Cinelli ever make bikes with clamp-style stems? Is this a Model B fork? Perhaps this is not the original fork. In that case, is there any way to determine whether this is an SC or a Model B?
Avert your eyes if you faint at the sight of bicycle butchery!
This frame will need a new seat tube. Evidently a previous owner attempted to remove a stuck seatpost with a poorly aligned lathe.
A few more photos.
I'm up against the 10 photo limit; will include a couple more photos in the next post.
Brent
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this is some form of "ruin porn" and I'm loving it.
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A couple more photos.
Any assistance with this mystery would be greatly appreciated.
Brent
Any assistance with this mystery would be greatly appreciated.
Brent
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Interesting find. Take a look at the Cinelli timeline on the Velo Retro website - it is the best collection of model and dating ID info I know of. All of the below is derived from Velo Retro.
That frame has "wolf ear" head lugs, which the timeline says means says it is from 1960 or earlier. But it appears not to have spring hole for the Campy Sport POS RD in the right rear dropout above the derailleur hole. Those holes did not disappear until until the mid-1960s, In theory, if it has wolf ear lugs, it should have a Campy Sport hole, but this one appears not to. There is what looks like a small circular indentation in that locale in the photo that could possibly be a plugged up hole. If so, there is no contradiction In any event, the headlugs argue for a frame from 1960 or earlier.
If that date is correct, then you probably do not have an SC because it does not have oil and drain ports in the BB hanger. If I am reading VR correctly, only SCs had these. If that is correct, this frame is probably a Model B, That fork certainly would be consistent with that.
The wild card is the Mod. Riviera. I know virtual nothing about them and I think few if any came to the US, (someone with better knowledge than mine can confirm or set me straight on this) so I am cheerfully ignoring the Riviera as a possibility.
So put me in the "it's a Model B" camp unless and until better evidence comes along. You know, like someone with actual first-hand knowledge or has spoken to Cino's ghost at a recent seance . . . ..
Oh, about that seat tube . . . .
That frame has "wolf ear" head lugs, which the timeline says means says it is from 1960 or earlier. But it appears not to have spring hole for the Campy Sport POS RD in the right rear dropout above the derailleur hole. Those holes did not disappear until until the mid-1960s, In theory, if it has wolf ear lugs, it should have a Campy Sport hole, but this one appears not to. There is what looks like a small circular indentation in that locale in the photo that could possibly be a plugged up hole. If so, there is no contradiction In any event, the headlugs argue for a frame from 1960 or earlier.
If that date is correct, then you probably do not have an SC because it does not have oil and drain ports in the BB hanger. If I am reading VR correctly, only SCs had these. If that is correct, this frame is probably a Model B, That fork certainly would be consistent with that.
The wild card is the Mod. Riviera. I know virtual nothing about them and I think few if any came to the US, (someone with better knowledge than mine can confirm or set me straight on this) so I am cheerfully ignoring the Riviera as a possibility.
So put me in the "it's a Model B" camp unless and until better evidence comes along. You know, like someone with actual first-hand knowledge or has spoken to Cino's ghost at a recent seance . . . ..
Oh, about that seat tube . . . .
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And hang that thing on a wall somewhere
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-----
this is the first one can recall seeing with the 1010/A ends set
it will definitely have the 74mm shell at this date
when the seat tube is replaced the builder will needs be add the sleeve to make it correct
certainly appears to be a Model B from here
members martl & clubman can share their experience...
-----
this is the first one can recall seeing with the 1010/A ends set
it will definitely have the 74mm shell at this date
when the seat tube is replaced the builder will needs be add the sleeve to make it correct
certainly appears to be a Model B from here
members martl & clubman can share their experience...
-----
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Oh, in that case it's just another fun Saturday afternoon. If you're around for the before and after, then post some pics.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
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It looks very early with the wrong fork. That's all I got.
I didn't even see the hole in the seat tube.
I didn't even see the hole in the seat tube.
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What is the height of the head badge? Center to center on badge screws?
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Shape of lozenge on downtube. The shape of the head lugs, placement of serial number makes me think 1951-1955.
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I think the headbadge is just under 55mm but I'll double check tomorrow.
Brent
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Inspired by your comment I went searching online for photos of Cinelli forks. Sure enough, I couldn't find another Cinelli fork matching this one. So it's probably safe to lay to rest the idea that this is the original fork.
Brent
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-----
this is the first one can recall seeing with the 1010/A ends set
it will definitely have the 74mm shell at this date
when the seat tube is replaced the builder will needs be add the sleeve to make it correct
certainly appears to be a Model B from here
members martl & clubman can share their experience...
-----
this is the first one can recall seeing with the 1010/A ends set
it will definitely have the 74mm shell at this date
when the seat tube is replaced the builder will needs be add the sleeve to make it correct
certainly appears to be a Model B from here
members martl & clubman can share their experience...
-----
Did you mean the 1010/1 dropouts?
Brent
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That would indicate fork is original with same paint remnants.
Were the steerer tubes that much longer to accommodate the old clip style HS?
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Here's a very similar BB and S/N, no drain or oil port.
https://steel-vintage.com/cinelli-mo...e-1960s-detail
https://steel-vintage.com/cinelli-mo...e-1960s-detail
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Yes, thank you.
That which passeth for me "braine" striketh once again.
---
question for the Cino experts:
mention was made earlier in thread of the Riviera model
the only examples of this model have seen were the contract built ones done by Garlatti of Parma
have always wondered if there were actual Cino produced Rivieras
-----
Yes, thank you.
That which passeth for me "braine" striketh once again.
---
question for the Cino experts:
mention was made earlier in thread of the Riviera model
the only examples of this model have seen were the contract built ones done by Garlatti of Parma
have always wondered if there were actual Cino produced Rivieras
-----
Last edited by juvela; 09-01-20 at 10:49 PM.
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Where is the bike from? Maybe you could check the serial number against Spence Wolfe's registry.