Drivers are overwhelmingly at fault in collisions
06-13-17, 06:33 PM
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Drivers are overwhelmingly at fault in collisions
Drivers are overwhelmingly at fault in collisions with cyclists ? should we assume they are liable? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Article edited
Two hundred years after their invention, bicycles are widely recognised as an effective tool to combat physical and mental health problems, reduce congestion on urban roads and improve the quality of the environment.
However, cycling participation across Australia is stagnating. This is mainly because of concerns about safety.
A report released last week by the Royal Automobile Association of South Australia found that in 195 out of 277 crashes between cars and bicycles (just over 70 per cent) the cyclist was not at fault.
Cars generally cause collisions
Despite a significant reduction in road deaths in Australia over the past few decades, recent data point to a steady increase in serious injuries among vulnerable road users, including cyclists.
Australia needs serious action if we want to reverse this trend.
Last week's report from the Royal Automobile Association of South Australia (RAA) confirms other research in this area, such as a 2013 University of Adelaide study that examined police crash records and found drivers caused four in every five crashes between cars and bicycles.
They found that drivers were responsible for the actions preceding the incident in 87 per cent of cases.
The previous studies show that most of these crashes occur at intersections, and generally involve a cyclist traveling in a straight line on a single carriageway at the time of the collision with the motor vehicle.
However, the law alone is not sufficient.
Better cycling infrastructure, reduced speed limits in residential areas, and improved education for drivers and cyclists are all needed to keep our roads safe for everyone.
(FULL ARTICLE HERE) Drivers are overwhelmingly at fault in collisions with cyclists ? should we assume they are liable? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Article edited
Two hundred years after their invention, bicycles are widely recognised as an effective tool to combat physical and mental health problems, reduce congestion on urban roads and improve the quality of the environment.
However, cycling participation across Australia is stagnating. This is mainly because of concerns about safety.
A report released last week by the Royal Automobile Association of South Australia found that in 195 out of 277 crashes between cars and bicycles (just over 70 per cent) the cyclist was not at fault.
To keep our cyclists safe, it may be time to adopt the approach of many European nations by introducing legislation that, in civil cases, presumes that car drivers caused a collision unless there is evidence to the contrary.
Shifting the burden of proof to drivers — who must prove they didn't cause a crash — has been highly successful in other nations, along with other measures, in keeping cyclists safer and reducing accidents. Cars generally cause collisions
Despite a significant reduction in road deaths in Australia over the past few decades, recent data point to a steady increase in serious injuries among vulnerable road users, including cyclists.
Australia needs serious action if we want to reverse this trend.
Last week's report from the Royal Automobile Association of South Australia (RAA) confirms other research in this area, such as a 2013 University of Adelaide study that examined police crash records and found drivers caused four in every five crashes between cars and bicycles.
They found that drivers were responsible for the actions preceding the incident in 87 per cent of cases.
The previous studies show that most of these crashes occur at intersections, and generally involve a cyclist traveling in a straight line on a single carriageway at the time of the collision with the motor vehicle.
However, the law alone is not sufficient.
Better cycling infrastructure, reduced speed limits in residential areas, and improved education for drivers and cyclists are all needed to keep our roads safe for everyone.
(FULL ARTICLE HERE) Drivers are overwhelmingly at fault in collisions with cyclists ? should we assume they are liable? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Last edited by coominya; 06-13-17 at 06:36 PM.
06-14-17, 12:08 AM
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I'm not in favor of presumption of responsibility based on the type of vehicle. However I am in favor of presumption of responsibility based on situation.
For example many of the most serious car/bike accidents are in passing situations. So, if we accept that the forward vehicle has the right of way until the pass is completed safely, then by extension we can presume the passing vehicle responsible in a collision (unless there's strong evidence to the contrary).
Similar logic could be applied to most other scenarios, but we need to go beyond presumption of responsibility to imposing some meaningful, but not draconian penalty on responsible parties who are shielded from financial loss by their insurers. That might consist of fines and/or weekend jail for serious injuries or death (in non-aggravated cases), or mandating co-insurance for liability subject to minimums and caps.
For my part, I assign a decent percentage of blame for poor drivers to the insurance system, which tends to insulate people from the consequences of their actions.
For example many of the most serious car/bike accidents are in passing situations. So, if we accept that the forward vehicle has the right of way until the pass is completed safely, then by extension we can presume the passing vehicle responsible in a collision (unless there's strong evidence to the contrary).
Similar logic could be applied to most other scenarios, but we need to go beyond presumption of responsibility to imposing some meaningful, but not draconian penalty on responsible parties who are shielded from financial loss by their insurers. That might consist of fines and/or weekend jail for serious injuries or death (in non-aggravated cases), or mandating co-insurance for liability subject to minimums and caps.
For my part, I assign a decent percentage of blame for poor drivers to the insurance system, which tends to insulate people from the consequences of their actions.
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06-14-17, 12:29 AM
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I agree, though I had never thought of it like that before. I have always believed that health insurance was to blame for skyrocketing medical costs, costs which have allowed pharmaceuticals to become the richest corporations on the planet aside from arms manufacturers.
06-14-17, 01:22 AM
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the Royal Automobile Association of South Australia found that in 195 out of 277 crashes between cars and bicycles (just over 70 per cent) the cyclist was not at fault.
...
a 2013 University of Adelaide study that examined police crash records and found drivers caused four in every five crashes between cars and bicycles.
They found that drivers were responsible for the actions preceding the incident in 87 per cent of cases.
...
a 2013 University of Adelaide study that examined police crash records and found drivers caused four in every five crashes between cars and bicycles.
They found that drivers were responsible for the actions preceding the incident in 87 per cent of cases.
Defensive riding and paying attention to one's surroundings and being safe could likely prevent a few more too.
It doesn't excuse the drivers, but cyclists can't just ignore their own contribution to their own personal safety.
06-14-17, 02:35 AM
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That still leaves about 1:5 to 1:3 of the accidents being caused by the cyclists.
Defensive riding and paying attention to one's surroundings and being safe could likely prevent a few more too.
It doesn't excuse the drivers, but cyclists can't just ignore their own contribution to their own personal safety.
Defensive riding and paying attention to one's surroundings and being safe could likely prevent a few more too.
It doesn't excuse the drivers, but cyclists can't just ignore their own contribution to their own personal safety.
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06-14-17, 02:38 AM
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06-14-17, 02:40 AM
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Two hundred years after their invention, bicycles are widely recognised as an effective tool to combat physical and mental health problems, reduce congestion on urban roads and improve the quality of the environment.
However, cycling participation across Australia is stagnating.
However, cycling participation across Australia is stagnating.
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06-14-17, 03:38 AM
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Most of the accidents it looks occur at T-junctions where the bike is T-boned or otherwise squashed by the car. I always slow down at these intersections, enough so as I can see as far as I can brake to avoid an accident. that's not popular with many, especially those trying to beat strava times.
06-14-17, 03:45 AM
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By the way, I ride a road bike, just not a racer, not one specifically designed for high speeds in events when there is no other traffic besides bicycles.
06-14-17, 06:05 AM
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Just one example and already problems. MANY right hook situations happen seconds after a completed pass. If you count the pass as "completed safely" once the car is back in lane beyond the bicycle, then a whole class of right hook accidents are thrown back into neutral presumption of guilt even though I think as far as legal guilt is concerned, right hooks are nearly always the fault of the driver. (I'm saying "legal guilt" here because there's always the argument that the cyclist probably could have avoided the accident if attentive/paranoid enough and gave up his right of way, assuming the car used a turn signal, blah blah).
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06-14-17, 06:14 AM
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There is a reason that The Netherlands and Denmark (and now Sweden, Finland, Germany, Spain, ...) built cement curb protected bikeways and junctions. A car colliding with a bicycle (or pedestrian) is much worse for the bicycle rider. No amount of paint, education, or enforcement ever has nor will result in a safe environment for bicycle riders. Autonomous Vehicles? Maybe but there are other problems.
The only thing to have ever created a safe environment for bicycle riders is protected bikeways (built to CROW specs).
The only thing to have ever created a safe environment for bicycle riders is protected bikeways (built to CROW specs).
06-14-17, 08:12 AM
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Which makes your stance against cyclists using the the lane instead of cowering on the far edge of the margins in an effort to stay out of the way of the cars, all the more misguided.
06-14-17, 08:49 AM
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06-14-17, 09:16 AM
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I agree, though I had never thought of it like that before. I have always believed that health insurance was to blame for skyrocketing medical costs, costs which have allowed pharmaceuticals to become the richest corporations on the planet aside from arms manufacturers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ies_by_revenue
06-14-17, 09:37 AM
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Imagine, if you will two extreme scenarios.
1) traffic without motorists;
2) traffic without cyclists.
Which do you think would have more deaths and collisions?
06-14-17, 10:12 AM
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I have always know it. Hopefully by the end of this thread you will have realized that some of your cycling habits no doubt contribute to the odds of an accident.
By the way, I ride a road bike, just not a racer, not one specifically designed for high speeds in events when there is no other traffic besides bicycles.
By the way, I ride a road bike, just not a racer, not one specifically designed for high speeds in events when there is no other traffic besides bicycles.
Again you make wild claims about people and their riding with so little knowledge.
With around 400,000 miles cycling over 25 years, I have had less than a handful of collisions and all of them have been the motorist fault, with their insurance agents not even arguing I might be at fault.
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06-14-17, 06:02 PM
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Sorry about that cb, I know that was rude of me to unblock you and read one of your posts, but I was just bored and couldn't help myself. Here's what I normally see.
You're just too angry to have your comments exposed willy nilly
You're just too angry to have your comments exposed willy nilly
06-14-17, 07:05 PM
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Oh my!
06-14-17, 07:07 PM
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06-15-17, 11:53 AM
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There is a reason that The Netherlands and Denmark (and now Sweden, Finland, Germany, Spain, ...) built cement curb protected bikeways and junctions. A car colliding with a bicycle (or pedestrian) is much worse for the bicycle rider. No amount of paint, education, or enforcement ever has nor will result in a safe environment for bicycle riders. Autonomous Vehicles? Maybe but there are other problems.
What would these graphs look like if there were no cars in any of the billion miles or kilometres measured?
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06-16-17, 12:17 AM
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Except when the cyclists are at fault of course. Us And Them is by Pink Floyd and the mentality helps none of us solve anything.
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06-16-17, 11:01 AM
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There are two bits to this.
1 - There are actually quite a few cars there. The difference is that bikeways are separated from motor lanes by cement curbs that prevent errant drivers from hitting and killing or injuring bicycle riders (and bicycle rider are much better protected at junctions as well).
2 - Because people feel so safe riding bicycles in The Netherlands there are somewhat fewer cars on the roads.
1 - There are actually quite a few cars there. The difference is that bikeways are separated from motor lanes by cement curbs that prevent errant drivers from hitting and killing or injuring bicycle riders (and bicycle rider are much better protected at junctions as well).
2 - Because people feel so safe riding bicycles in The Netherlands there are somewhat fewer cars on the roads.
06-18-17, 11:53 PM
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I'm not sure why but I feel like I pigged out and lost weight reading this.
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06-20-17, 01:50 PM
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I'm still waiting on the data that tells us why drivers keep hitting cyclists. I have my guesses and prejudices, but I want data. Because I am tired of freaking out when I roll up to a stop light and every third driver is using both hands to type texts, and I don't see them look up when they accelerate at the green light.
All of this conversation is a band-aid. So is the study. There appears to be little forward momentum on solving the causes. Which to my estimation include (but are not limited to):
*Lack of driver education
-includes misconceptions about bicycle positioning, AKA 'get on the sidewalk' arguments, penalty pass, etc.
*Driver apathy
*Drunk/Impaired driving
*Sense of driver entitlement (tribalism, subconscious sports team behavior)
*Intermittent explosive disorder at the wheel (aka regular people turn into aggressive warlike chimps behind the wheel)
*Distracted Driving!!
A lot of these things are nascent to human nature. Can you solve this? I think you can:
*Make bike lanes ubiquitous, and separated where possible
*Get self-driving cars on the road
*In the mean-time, educate more drivers
*Perhaps a teensy enforcement regime? Honestly, I agree with shifting the burden of proof away from the
vulnerable users. I didn't even know that was the norm in some places. Good for them.
Everything I've said here has been said before. Again, where is the forward momentum in the states? Far as I can tell, distracted driving is going up at the same time severe, fatal cyclist injuries are increasing. Every time I see a link posted about this problem, the answer is always reactionary, and reflects the driver vs. driver at fault culture somehow applied and adopted to driver vs. bicyclist injuries.
All of this conversation is a band-aid. So is the study. There appears to be little forward momentum on solving the causes. Which to my estimation include (but are not limited to):
*Lack of driver education
-includes misconceptions about bicycle positioning, AKA 'get on the sidewalk' arguments, penalty pass, etc.
*Driver apathy
*Drunk/Impaired driving
*Sense of driver entitlement (tribalism, subconscious sports team behavior)
*Intermittent explosive disorder at the wheel (aka regular people turn into aggressive warlike chimps behind the wheel)
*Distracted Driving!!
A lot of these things are nascent to human nature. Can you solve this? I think you can:
*Make bike lanes ubiquitous, and separated where possible
*Get self-driving cars on the road
*In the mean-time, educate more drivers
*Perhaps a teensy enforcement regime? Honestly, I agree with shifting the burden of proof away from the
vulnerable users. I didn't even know that was the norm in some places. Good for them.
Everything I've said here has been said before. Again, where is the forward momentum in the states? Far as I can tell, distracted driving is going up at the same time severe, fatal cyclist injuries are increasing. Every time I see a link posted about this problem, the answer is always reactionary, and reflects the driver vs. driver at fault culture somehow applied and adopted to driver vs. bicyclist injuries.