Narhay

I have been exclusively riding friction shifting bikes from the 1970s for some time now. My friends have modern bikes and we ride together sometimes, they appreciate the old bikes I bring and I covet theirs. I was passively looking at modern bikes, unbeknownst to my wife, with a secret desire to build a Chinese carbon bike. The initial price outlay for a mid-range bike was creeping ever upwards and it was put on the back burner.

Fast forward to last week when an ad on Facebook catches my eye. A 2011 BMC RM01 Race Machine, full carbon, 7900 Dura Ace 2*10 speed group for just a bit more than just the Chinese frameset would have been. The catch being, of course, that it was on Vancouver Island. A couple phonecalls and an after work ferry ride to and from the island netted me the bike.

It needed a bit of work and had a worn big chainring but otherwise was completely rideable. Of course being Dura Ace a new chainring would be more than a new 6800 series Ultegra crank so I opted for a new crank.

My only other modern road bike was a Windsor Wellington 2.0 from bikes direct in 2012. This had a sora/2200 group, aluminum frame, soft wheels and steel fork. It lasted a season before I decided I had enough of low end bikes. So this was a bit of a departure for me.

Impressions:
- The Easton EC70 Handlebars are nearly twice as wide as my Nitto Randonneur bars. Not bad, just immediately different.
- Brifters are relatively comfortable resting spots
- I feel more comfortable with more saddle to bar drop for some reason with a longer stem. Maybe I'm just getting fitter.
- Click click click. I don't think of shifting and trimming anymore so I can just ride the bike.
- Braking is far more effective. I have well adjusted vintage brakes with Kool Stop pads and aluminum rims but they get blown out of the water by these calipers.
- I didn't need to futz around with adding water bottles to my new bike
- The Shimano wheels have lots of seals and are rebuildable.
- Having the 11-12-13 portion of the cassette is nice for tailwinds and trash talking my friends when I beat their Strava segments.
- I usually use 3 cogs in the back on flats. Now I use 4 or 5.

The downsides :

- Neuvation m28 modern low spoke count rims already let me down with cracks at the spoke holes on the rear. I put an inexpensive RS10 wheelset on there for now
- Things aren't as immediately rebuildable...most things can be fixed but it usually requires me buying new parts and press in new cartridge bearings.
- I need to find a better fitting saddle. A B17 just won't quite look right.
- I had to buy a 7th spoke wrench for the larger size nipples on the new wheelset. I tried using an adjustable wrench to dish, round and true...may as well have just banged my head against the wall for 2 hours instead and gotten the same place and the red anodizing on the nipples would be in better shape.

Overall I'm happy to ride both. The modern bike has it's place just as my C&V bikes have theirs. It also seems I'm faster on the bike that I am pedalling harder on, regardless of era. I like the aesthetics of both. Modern has its appeal but C&V has its spot in my heart as well.

As purchased


As of this morning

Sir_Name 

Nice. I have one modern-ish bike from '07, though that one's aluminum with a carbon fork. Very different feel from the vintage stuff. Different tools for different jobs...er, or the same job. Agreed on your impressions.

Slightspeed

I have a '64 Legnano Roma since new, and a carbon everything Culprit Croz Blade with Di2 electronic shift and disc brakes. On a Malibu ride of just under 50 miles, my personal best mph average was 17.8 on the Culprit. The other day, i took the Legnano on the same ride and averaged 17.9. Its not all about the bike. I love them both, and enjoy riding them both as long as the hills aren't too bad for the Legnano's 42/28 best climbing gear. The Culprit is a compact double with a 30 on the back.

Andy_K 

Nice report, and nice new bike!

I used to have all modern bikes. Then I let a semi-vintage bike in the stable and it ended up multiplying. Now I've got a bunch of vintage bikes (though mostly with modern components) and a few modern bikes. I recently sold my only carbon bike and mountain bike to make space for more lugged steel rigs.

For me, the functionality of new components, especially the brakes, is fundamental. I love the look and feel of lugged steel bikes, but I like them with newer components. I've got one nice bike with vintage components (SunTour Superbe) and I enjoy riding that once in a while, but it's as much for the novelty as anything else. It's definitely a different experience. I wouldn't say I like it better. I might enjoy it more if I replaced the uncomfortable 80's potato chip shaped saddle.

Most of my fully modern bike miles come commuting to work. I've been riding the steel bikes a lot this summer, but when it rains or I need to haul my laptop home, I go with the aluminum fender beast.



BTW, I recently installed a 6800-series Ultegra crank (with 46-34 rings) on the Kona. I haven't gotten around to taking new pictures, but it's a nice crank.

Kevindale

My 2012 Cannondale is like driving my newish Prius - smooth, easy to drive, goggles up the miles, and it's easy to drive while I listen to podcasts or fiddle with the soundsystem, or reach behind the seat to the cooler and grocery bag on a long drive. My Tommasini is like driving my old first gen Mazda Miata with the top down - a little bit more of a handful, super responsive, just makes me smile (I used to call it an antidepressant on wheels), and perfectly competent on long drives, but more wearing. My Cannondale isn't as boring as the Prius, and I haven't really taken the Tommasini on a really long ride, so that comparison is selling both of them a little short. It would be hard to pick one if I could only keep one. The Cannondale is a little more aero, which is a big help on the levee trail in New Orleans, while I'm just as fast and as comfortable on the Tommasini in the places I ride it in Shreveport. Viva la difference!

Interesting that you noted how wide the BMC's bars are. I only really got comfortable on my Cannondale when I swapped the 44cm bars for 40cm aero drop bars. It transformed the feel of the cockpit, was immediately faster, and far more comfortable for me. But then I'm skinny as a rail. That's one thing I like about vintage bikes, the narrow bars.

Wildwood 

I ride both modern & C&V. Steel, Ti, & CF. Friction 6 and Ergo 10. Each has its' own appeal. I do ride faster on the newer bikes, generally speaking.
@Narhay - Nice looking BMC.

Narhay

I just measured them...46cm from ctc bar end to bar end. I think that's quite a bit wider than average, even these days. I don't think I'll change them... I haven't felt they impeded me or are uncomfortable, just wider and different.

non-fixie 

I don't own a really modern bike, but I rode this one up and down the street once (facilitated the buy for a fellow member), to make sure there was nothing untoward. The experience was similar to driving the Toyota Auris hybrid that was lent to me while my WJ was at the dealer's for a service: competent, interesting experience, but not my thing.

jimmuller 

I had a modern bike once. I kept it. Now it is both classic and vintage.

I did put indexing DT shift levers on the Tommasini. I like them. They do take just a bit less concentration while shifting, but I'm quite happy shifting friction too so the improvement isn't so much after all. I have Tektro dual-pivot brakes on several bikes, but I have no trouble stopping on the other bikes. So while the improvement is noticeable it isn't necessary.

Darth Lefty 

Road bikes are still basically a safety bike with drop bars. There's way more dramatic changes in MTB's.

old's'cool

I question that. Do you mean the hand pressure is less for a given amount of braking, or are you unable to squeeze hard enough to actually lock up your vintage brakes? If the latter is the case, there is something out of specification or out of adjustment with your vintage brakes (unless your hands are unusually weak, which I doubt).

iab

Lovely bike.

Personally, I like them all.

Narhay

Hand pressure to lock wheel is less, hand position is more comfortable when braking, much better modulation, less caliper arm flex, leverage seems to be better, modern brake pads have built in adjustability. I can lock my rear C&V wheel but it takes more hand effort. With these brakes I am braking later, with more power and with a smoother curve. Don't get me wrong - I'm still here on Earth so obviously the brakes are working well enough in the real world for both type of bike but the modern brakes are just more effective and efficient as far as I am concerned.

Sir_Name 

Just for fun, an old photo of the CAAD 9.



The rider limits the performance of all of my bikes, they just give a different experience. This is a very fun bike, every bit as much fun as any of the other bikes.

Echoed from the original post, I've also been finding that I like longer (120-130) stems when the saddle->bar drop getts into go-fast territory.

mapleleafs-13 

Newer bikes are cool too, i scored a nice aluminum race frame with carbon fork complete with record 10. Rediculously light and stiff. I do enjoy it, the acceleration seems definitely a lot better than a steel bike. only thing is it's so stiff it makes my balls hurt. Maybe i just gotta find a new saddle

It is nice to try both worlds. for sure, new and old, we all love vintage but it's ok to own other stuff. one day i will own a full carbon bike when the right deal comes along. i've always wanted a c50 or so.

MaximumCoast

I'd sworn off new bikes forever. I just got a new one for a deal I couldn't pass up... and now, the very large vintage bike stable is under the axe. I can't tell whether I'm more excited to get rid of bikes, or the idea that if I have space I can fill it up different bikes. Probably a little of both I think a vintage frame with some modern components are in my future.

trailangel

Don't post pics of modern bikes here.
Take your plastic somewhere else.

RiddleOfSteel

Both eras have their merits (as others have stated) and I've run Ergos/STI's on my vintage stuff, but interestingly, have gone away from that, choosing to outfit them as they were originally or similar. I have little use for fully friction shift setups as a commuter and Seattle resident with the constant interactions with hills, so (Shimano) indexed down tube shifters are installed and greatly enjoyed. Only two notable exceptions in my fleet, and both run Campagnolo for various reasons.

In many cases, a modern race bike will out-perform a vintage race bike. This is not questioned, really. Shift speed, cadence selection and maintenance (more gears, spaced more closely), braking performance, frame strength/stiffness for power transfer, weight (lower), etc. This should be no surprise for a myriad of reasons. Like automobiles and their technological and performance progress, the advancement of it all cares not for anyone's nostalgia or emotions. Sports cars from the '80s and '90s are matched or out-performed by today's V6 family sedans. My aluminum Trek Emonda jumps off the line and out of corners, and it's extremely light, responsive, and comfortable (certainly not harsh). It's impressive, and my butt-o-meter has it outdoing my beloved Peloton in objective performance tasks.

Now......

....am I a racer? No. Not by a long shot. I can put power down, but not for a long time. This is most of us. And since I/we don't race, ultimate and objective performance metrics are not make or break on rides. Ergos and STI's shift faster and require no hand movement off the hoods/bars--race car stuff. Down tube shifters of any variation (friction, indexed, magic..) are slower and in some cases are done by feel and all this extra plan-to-shift stuff--manual transmission car stuff. Not racing allows us to bring back in emotion, feeling, subjectivity, and even irrationality, to our riding/equipment decisions.

My 6-speed 5.7L V8 Camaro from '97, on a race track, will get it's head served on a platter by a new EcoBoost 4-cylinder Mustang with its independent rear suspension and however-many-speed auto trans. The EB motor has comparable hp and torque to my LT1 V8, a superior suspension design, stiffer chassis, etc. But we aren't on a track, and guess who has to live with not shifting a transmission (missing that tactile engagement), those tiny wheels on a huge bodied car, engine noise that has to be piped into the cabin (via speakers), and heck, a moaning 4-cylinder engine in general? Not me. I may be a little slower, but I'm having a ball, and that V8 has that soul-stirring, vengeful, snarling roar that cannot be ignored.

I like the new stuff, I respect the new stuff (road/race bike scope only here in this editorial), but I like the older stuff, too (duh, I have it!). I could take my friendlier-geared Emonda out for a night time spin, or I could take my gorgeous Masi with its 42-19 lowest gear combo and hunt some hills with gears, chain, and jockey wheels purring beneath me. In this context, I enjoy making no sense!

randyjawa 

When it comes to riding in Canada and the USA, this is the bike I use, almost exclusively because it is so easy to use...



and this is the one I ride in Jamaica(early eighties Bianchi Touring with seven speed indexed Barcons and canti brakes) because it is the only bike I keep there...



But I do take these guys out every second blue moon, or so, and I am always on the watch for another wall hanger...

iab

Kind of a weak troll. Can you do better?

RobbieTunes

All good, except for the troll.

Bikes are fun.

I prefer steel. Old and new. I prefer crafty precision by a cyclo-nerd to a digital-driven lay-up mold in some far-off land.

Easier for me, then, to rationalize my wallet and physical limitations.

jamesdak 

Well, I used to have a Trek Madone 5.9 and a Scott CR1 Pro in my stable. Great bikes but except for really long climbing rides on the super stiff Scott I never saw an advantage to them. I still was pulling out pretty much all my PRs on the Lemond Zurich. The modern stuff just kept sitting and is now gone. Hmmm, nope, I don't miss it. 'Nuff said.....



Come to think of it. It's not just carbon fiber that doesn't do anything for me. I sold my 2015 Lynskey R265 at a great loss this year too. I just wasn't using it.

Lazyass

I was reading abut this Pinarello Dogma yesterday and was amazed at how crazy technology is getting. It has 10mm of suspension, electronically controlled with sensors throughout the frame, and is bluetooth capable so you can control it with a remote or with your phone. I mean, damn, I don't even know how to use most the stuff on my phone as it is. I do think suspension on racing bikes is going to be the next big thing. Specialized is starting to transition to the Future Shock.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/07/28...-0-suspension/

mountaindave 

I think that was claimed 20 years ago? What happened? They could just leave more space for bigger tires, like 28's or 32's. Riders are already heading that direction with 25mm being the "new" standard. People would be surprised by how nice they feel. Not everybody would be crazy enough to convert an RB1 to 650b so you run 38mm tires, but dang she's fast! On tarmac or gravel.

And that's as new as I get. Everybody has pretty much covered the reasons why I like vintage already. I will say that I also appreciate the features of indexing.

Re shift ratios of new bike: just to be snarky, I have nearly identical shift ratios over 14 fully useable gears on my RB1 with an indexed 7s half step setup. I don't get the crazy 1.5 low gear ratio or 8.5 high, but I don't use those on this particular bike anyway - not touring with a heavy load or able to push a 52x11. How many useable, non-duplicate gears can modern, off-the-shelf bikes boast?

In the end, each bike has its purpose and each has its own personality. I have many different friends in life with many different personalities and I like them all - they are all nice people. Just like people, if the bike is good to you, keep it, no matter how new or old it is.

qcpmsame 

Nice looking BMC @Narhay, glad that you posted about this aspect many of us experience with our collections. I believe you'll enjoy the BMC, as a change of pace and in its different way of doing things. In my case its aluminum getting the short shrift due to the two steel bikes I enjoy so much, but the CAAD10 is not leaving anytime soon. And I went with the same crankset you chose in lieu of those speedy Dura Ace rings. Ultegra is some nice stuff, I put on a complete 6800 group for the upgrade last year. The shifting is an entirely different world, as you well described in the OP.

No one can pretend to speak for all of us either, the participation by the folks here tells me this thread meets the C&V intentions, and comparisons between contemporary and vintage should be here. Please continue this discussion and ignore the naysayer.

Bill