Thigh Master

I recently saw a YouTube video that tested the OEM Pinion gear oil (pricey) and found that “75w-90 synthetic gear oil will have the same properties.” Anyone confirm this finding? Or have thoughts on it? https://youtu.be/BACVU0fsF_A?si=dr4NzS3a0wChCtgd

Iride01 

Are you browsing the auto forums at the same time as the bicycle forums and maybe confused which you posted at? Right now you are on the forum where Mazola corn oil might do just as well.

FBinNY 

+1

As far as bikes are concerned, either is equally fine wherever either is OK, which is unlikely on bikes.

Crankycrank

Maybe the OP is interested in this Pinion gearbox.

Thigh Master

…yes, my question is when changing oil in this bicycle gearbox, can anyone confirm that using non-OEM gear oil is ok?

Crankycrank

I should have added that the YouTube vid I posted has another vid by the same guy that answers your question.

Iride01 

Well at least we now know it's for a pinion gear on a bicycle. Maybe if we pull a few more teeth we can find out what brand and model bicycle.

dedhed

Get a hold of the MSDS of Pinion oil and see what it is.

grumpus

The brand is Pinion, a manufacturer of bicycle gear systems like Rohloff - would you need to know the make model year of a bike if the question was simply about what oil to use in a Rohloff hub?

Thigh Master

Yep, that’s the link I tried to paste. Sound’s trustworthy but I was hoping for another source. I like the idea of finding the MSDS of the OEM Pinion gearbox oil. Will need a lotta luck.

veganbikes

I would recommend reaching out to Pinon and asking at least from a warranty standpoint. In the end if I am buying a nice pinion gearbox bike I am fine with a little extra money each year to flush it with new oil from them. Especially if I have a belt drive I am saving a ton there and that amount for gearbox oil is probably not that much compared to chains and lubing and replacing cassettes and stuff like that.

In the end people are always trying to cheap out on silly stuff and for a system that is not cheap and doesn't require a ton of maintenance often it doesn't really make sense to try stuff that may not work or may not be rated for the gearbox and end your warranty for no reason.

Thigh Master

Damn good advice. Thank you.

Duragrouch

I think the video in post #6 is dead-on; If you can get the same lube for 5% the unit cost, you can change the lube much more often, and that will prolong the gearbox life, because this lube is not filtered while in operation. This is not a case of cost delta 2000% between $0.05 and $1, but over $30 for a tiny amount of oil, so frequent changes at that price can add up to a lot.

The metals content under analysis is, I think, typical for the first oil change after the factory lube, because the gears are wearing-in, as noted in the report. This is why I like to rush initial lube changes on cars from the factory, for example, not waiting 50,000 miles to do transmission lube change, unless the drain plug has a magnet on it for pulling iron and steel particles out of solution.

Pinion uses "straight" 75W lube. This is fine, because they don't need high temperature performance. But a 75W-90, designed for high temp as well, will do no harm, and notably, an auto gear lube is designed for both rolling and sliding contact on gears, and for ball and roller bearings, exactly the same as in a Pinion gearbox. Synthetic lubes tend to outperform conventional lubes, however, decades in the past, some synthetics would destroy some rubber seals and plastic parts. I think this is less prevalent these days, but always good to know. One person on the forum said they found a Sturmey-Archer Correction: Shimano Alfine 11 filled with automatic transmission fluid, which swelled a plastic seal or nut to where it disengaged from the axle threads.

Some of the other elements in the analysis, such as calcium, may be from the oil used, not coming from any of the gearbox internals; I use marine wheel bearing grease on my bike bearings, and it contains aluminum and calcium compounds, for example.

Dan Burkhart 

I think you are referencing a comment I made regarding ATF used in place of OEM oil in a Shimano Alfine 11 speed hub. That hub is oil bath from the factory, but the oil is specially formulated to be compatible with all the materials that come in contact with it.
I have run numerous tests with alternative lubes in various IGH models, and while the actual gear mechanisms in such a low load application aren't particularly fussy about what oil is lubricating them, material compatibility can be an issue.
I have to assume that since the Pinion is an oil bath device, there will be seals involved so if I was to use an alternative lube I would closely monitor those seals for integrity.

RGMN

Gear lubes with high or extreme pressure additives are corrosive to yellow metals (brass, copper, bronze.) From what I've seen on Rohloff, Sturmey-Archer, and Alfina hubs is there is yellow metal in them. I've never seen a Pinion disassembled but I would guess it also uses it. Most common gear lubes are rated GL4 and GL5 and contain significant levels of pressure additives. You can use motor oil in a manual transmission with no harm (but it will shift like crap) but if you use even a GL1 gear lube in your engine you will damage the bearings.

If all you are concerned about is getting at 75W gear lube, 10W and 20 weight motor oil has the same viscosity. You should be able to find a straight weight motor oil fairly easily.

Personally I would just use the Pinion oil even if it is pricy. Using a cheaper gear lube might be a false economy.

Rick

I and others on the forum whom own Rohloff equipped bicycles, purchase the larger bottles of the Rohloff oil and the 10 quantity of the oil plugs. for me this works out quite a bit cheaper for an oil change. I reuse the syringes from the oil change kit. So an oil change kit for a Pinion can cost up to $35.00 and comes with a 60ml bottle of oil. They sell the 1000ml bottle of Pinion bicycle gear oil from around 75 euros or if you by more local from US $115. This looks better to me.

Dan Burkhart 

I have never used anything but Rohloff oil in my own, or customer's Rohloff hubs. I don't mind experimenting with cheaper units, but not with these high priced gems.

Rick

Rohloff hub oil is sold in the 250ml size. Pinion bicycle gearbox oil is sold in the 250ml and the 1000ml, not an experiment but very much so more economical.

Dan Burkhart 

I bought a litre each of the flush oil and the hub oil about 20 years ago. Still have most of it.

dedhed

I myself, on any expensive or critical assembly, tend to go with the manufacturer's recommendation on lubes. Particularly in a case like this where the quantities are minuscule and the cost not astronomical. I mean come on, if you have a shop do the work the labor is probably more than the materials.

Duragrouch

I did not know that! Thank you! Wow, important, I'm not sure if any synchronizer rings in some manual gearboxes have bronze in them. My '90s GM manual trans used ATF, I thought to perhaps just standardize, but that may be a reason. A different sporty car I owned spec'ed (IIRC), GL4 but at an enthusiast meeting with a factory rep, they said they were getting a bit of buzzing during shifts (too much slippage at the synchros), so recommended one number down, GL3, a bit less slippery. I currently use gear lube for all my bike lube; chain, derailleur pivots, v-brake pivots, and the latter may contain a bronze bushing; I lube with grease at rebuilds but sometimes put a drop of lube there between rebuilds; I'll have to check on that at next brake overhaul.

hevysrf

My research shows modern GL-4/GL-5 oils ( last 30 years) are using compounds that inhibit the corrosive effects of the sulfur or phosphorus they contain to eliminate any yellow metal corrosion problems. They are formulated to handle hundreds of ft/pounds of torque, and temperatures far above what my legs can throw at any rohloff.
My main reason for advocating a full synthetic GL fluid is personal experience in how well they handle water contamination in a marine environment. These oils will never see their limits tested in bicycle gearbox but a sudden downpour or spill while fording a stream is a quite possible.

tcs

I very much doubt this, since Sturmey-Archer hubs don't have plastic seals or nuts. Either you or the person you claim to be quoting are confused.

veganbikes

Just FYI a while back they were bought out by SunRace and just out of curiosity I picked a couple of their 3 speed hubs and did find part number HSL871 which is listed as a plastic sprocket dustcap. Whether that has an effect on the inner fluid I doubt it but don't know for sure and also am not sure if they are using other plastic parts these days. My guess is probably not a whole lot of stuff but it was an interesting find.

Duragrouch

Please see post #14; My memory was mistaken and corrected by the person who originally posted about that; It was a Shimano Alfine 11 where he found ATF, and a swelled plastic part. I just revised my post, leaving sturmey-archer but striking it out (line through it), with a noted correction following.