Ruedi007

Hello!

​​​​​​Looking for a new wheelset for my adventure bike I came across the DT Swiss Gr 1600 (650b customized with a Son Dynamo Hub) . The set seems to fit quite well to my setup but I am not sure whether 24 Spokes are enough since I have heard that on disc brake bikes the force on the wheels might be to high.
Since my bike is about 9 kg without bags I am quite light and ask myself if it is OK to go with 24 Spokes.
What do you think?
Br

P. S. I have meant Rim Spokes in the thread but can not edit it. Sorry for that.

base2 

Last I looked Son didn't do 24 hole disc dynamos, so they must feel that it's definitely not enough. Shutter Precision seems to think it's fine though.

If you watch the Lael Wilcox Trans-Am documentary, "I Just Want To Ride My Bike" One of the participants has a Shutter Precision dynamo. I thought it was a Son at first and went digging on the internet. I was wrong & Shutter Precision is quite proud they were in the movie. So, if 24 spokes is good enough for them folks on the Trans-Am...?

I know what I'll be using on my next wheel set

clasher

I have a 24 spoke rim brake sp Dynamo wheel and broke a spoke on it during a 400 in 2018, and with a bit of tweaking I made it to the finish. An lbs put in a new spoke and trued the wheel. I did a 600 a day after and it was fine. Have since done 2 more series and PBP without a lick of trouble.

unterhausen

It doesn't follow that the one on TABR was 24 hole, unless they said it was. All of my SP hubs are 32 hole. With a 24 hole wheel, it's a really good idea to carry a real spoke wrench. A well-built wheel should break spokes, but you never know, and with low spoke count wheels they will go pretty far out of true as a result of a broken spoke. Of course, on a disc brake bike, that might not make as much difference, unless clearances are tight.

I'm very conservative, so I wouldn't do it. I had a horrible experience with a 28 hole wheel, so I'm sticking with 32 holes.

base2 

IIRC the guy on the TABR had what looked like ENVE G27 carbon clincher rims. So far as I know they come is 24 hole only.

On my Cervelo, I once popped a spoke on the 24 hole (rear) carbon rim while doing 30mph down a long grade. Surprised as I was to hear a rattle-klattle noise of a loose spoke whipping around until I stopped, it was no big deal. I put the spoke in my pocket & gently rode home. The wheel didn't even rub the brake tracks or seat stays unless I was neglectful.

Carbon is just a stronger, stiffer material overall. I think we are seeing that realization with ever decreasing spoke counts.

Had it been one of my 24 spoke aluminum wheelsets, theres no way it would have worked out to be the non-issue it was. To say I was surprised at what a non-issue it was would be an under statement.

For sure, I agree with you, if using an aluminum rim & you don''t have much in the way of frame clearance, more spokes to keep everything in check is certainly a wise choice.

unterhausen

Your point about carbon rims is a good one. I assumed the OP was considering an aluminum wheel without checking. But it does appear that the wheel he chose is aluminum. I always thought that the industry was smart enough to beef up rims when they use low spoke count, but I don't think that is true. Everyone has gone to wider rims nowadays, so they should be a bit stiffer

c.miller64

I have a 24 spoke SP dyno hub mounted to an Enve disc brake wheel with over 20k miles on it. No issues at with the hub or wheel and has also never needed a truing.

siebengang

They do, although not all models and colors.

My take on this: As these are somewhat unusual requirements for a set of wheels I would go to a experienced professional wheel builder and let her/him advise and build. In well-designed hand build wheels no spokes will break in normal use (i.e. what they are designed for). All the components play together, and 24 spokes could be enough but only when considering other details (such as rim and hub asymmetry, rim stiffness etc). It is hard to do this without a lot of experience.

Something to read: https://www.cognoscenti-cycles.com/b.../wheel-designs

base2 

If you can find a 24 hole disc Son dynamo, I would be genuinly interested. Either centerlock or 6 bolt would be fine.

I have been on 24 hole disc rims for a few years now & have an older set of Vision Metron 40's that are ripe for an upgrade. I've always had good luck with Son and looked to them first Son on account of brand loyalty, but Shutter Precision to me is an unknown at this point, so is a second choice as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe a Son 28, 24 hole disc isn't available in this market? In which case it may be time to fire up the VPN.

kingston 

https://www.bike-components.de/en/SO...mo-Hub-p24192/
https://www.bike-components.de/en/SO...mo-Hub-p54470/

Ruedi007

I did a lot of research no this topic.

My result is that 24 spokes with dynamo on the front wheel might be a bit week but the force on the front wheel with a total setup of maximum 100kg is ok. It should be

50% bike = ca. 5kg
35% myself and bagpack = 27kg
100% frontbabg = 3kg
50% framebag = ca. 3kg

frontwheel = 38kg

Problem would be force peeks caused by e.g. sharp stones or similar. I counter this with a 47 pathfinder 2less. (If you wonder why I can use 47's. this is the frame: Open U.P.)

Since the kg on the rear wheel will be around 63 kg I will do a 28 spokes setup there. Both (rear and front) spokes will be double butted DT spokes for more robust wheels.

I will also J-Bend since my SON delux 28 center disc 24 holes (linked by Kingston) can only J-Bend and according to my research there is no stability difference between straightpull and J-Bend.

Honestly if I could set it up from scratch I would go with at 28 holes front and rear but since I want to use my SON and do not want to buy a new one I go with the 24. The reason why I would go with 28 is that put in a new spoke on the tour will be more sensitive to the evenness in spoke tension as there are fewer overall spoke. That might cause a problem. I will see.

Luckily a lot of you guys have good longterm experience with 24 so I am confident that my decision is good.

kingston 

All my dynamo wheelsets are 36h. I have battey lights and low-spoke count lightweight wheelsets I can use when I'm concerned about weight. TABR or something similar is about the only use-case I can come up with where I would consider a low-spoke dynamo. Even then I think I'd probably just go with 32h if I were building a wheelset for that event. 8 spokes just don't weigh that much, and I can build a bomb-proof 32h wheel.

ThermionicScott 

On paper, 24 spokes could be enough. There would always be 2-3 spokes supporting the load, and at 80+ kgf each, there's margin for downhill braking, small potholes, etc. I would start to be a little concerned about lateral stability when combining this with a narrow front hub, though.

base2 

Wow! So close! That second link is indeed centerlock disk 24 hole. It's 12mm thru axle though. I'm on QR. But it's awesome to know they are on the ball with meeting market demand.

Link saved for future.
Thanks

kingston 

you could always get an adapter.

bike24.com also has son hubs. Check there too.

noglider 

Low spoke wheels work just as well as high spoke wheels, but not for as long.

I had a 24-spoke rear wheel. I received it as a gift. I didn't expect it to last long. I commuted on it. A spoke pulled through the rim after about three years. I replaced the wheel with one with 32 spokes.

Carbonfiberboy 

It depends on the rim and one's weight. I ride 23mm X 28mm rims, 24 in the rear, 20 radial in front. CX-Ray spokes, rim brakes. Works great. 145-150 lbs. I built the wheels, used a TM-1. I build all our wheels. Using heavy spokes on a low count wheel is a big mistake.