Jkey6

We have a Co Motion Primera that we love riding for a little more than a year, but just purchased a frame/ fork/ parts for a new project, its a 2007 Calfee Dragonfly (don't ask why, its just a bike thing).

Frame looks to be in excellent condition, but since it was purchased on Ebay we really don't have a lot of the details.
A few mysteries for us about the set up, and many decisions to make for the build - appreciate everyone's thoughts.

1) Fork - the bike came with a Wound Up Carbon disc fork that only accepts disc brakes - sorry but we are not disc brake fans and changed our Primera front brakes to rim - for us the rim brake worked 100% as well and was easier to keep adjusted, not to mention the weight savings... anyway, the bike's fork has a 45mm rake, any suggestions on best tandem carbon fork for rim brake setup?

2) Wheels - Rear spacing is 135mm. Default plan is Rolf tandem alloy.
Anyone using Zipp 404 Clydesdales? Other ideas?

3) Bike came set up for rear disc - thre is a sleeved hole on a cross member between the wheel stays (see jpg) - is this for optional rim brakes?

4) Shifters & Derailleurs - Campy Record Ultra shifters and Campy front Der. Rear derailleur is Shimano XTR w/ a 'shift mate' converter mechanism. Anyone use this Shift Mate device? Shift Mate is just there to make Campy/ Shimano comaptible... why would anyone not just make the rear Derailleur Campy or change to all Shimano?
Appreciate if anyone can shed light on this area - seems to be unnecessarily mechanically complicated

5) XTR rear derailleyr - anyone have experience with this? Quality/ reliability?

Thanks for your comments - lots of decisions to make.

Keep on rolling!

Team Fab

Rolf tandem wheel spacing is 145.

zipp wheel spacing is 130 unless you use different hub.

i would think you should ask calfee about rear caliper mount.

Jkey6

My Rolf's are 145 as well, but Precision Tandems shows a 135mm Rolf allow on their site (hope they really make it). PRECISION TANDEMS BICYCLE PARTS CATALOG

Have a message into Calfee about the rear caliper mount...

twocicle

FWIW, The current Rolf tandem disc wheels do come in 135mm, 145mm or 160mm per the specs: Tandem Disc ? Rolf Prima Wheel Systems

Regarding the 2007 Calfee Dragonfly, it appears to have a custom geometry (re: stoker taller than captain). I suggest to call or email Calfee with the frame S/N to inquire about the fork spec for this frame. It is possible the fork required for this frame has a different axle-crown length than Calfee's standard (367mm) length.

Yes, the rear has a brake bridge between the seat stays for a rim caliper mount. Personally, I think the dual disc setup is choice. Maybe get some nice deep section carbon rims and not worry about braking with rim calipers.

XTR RDs work great and have a very wide cog capacity. An SGS cage is needed if using a triple chainring setup. BTW, from the photo the chain seems to be a bit short, maybe 2 links.

Dean V

The Campy shifters are probably there because of personal preference of previous owner. If you go 10sp Campy throughout I think you will be limited to a 29 max on the rear and will need a Campy freewheel too. If you want to get rid of the shift mate you could use a Sram mtb derailleur. Personally I think the current build looks alright and would ride it for a while before starting to fix problems that may not exist.

Jkey6

Thanks for the rear brake bridge info - we ride primarily dry flat roads w/ some rolling hills so really don't need extra braking. We normally transport the bike using a std bike rack, rotating the front wheel 90 degrees and removing the rear to reduce the length since its across the back of my suv - rim bakes makes it easier to remove and replace the rear wheel.

You are right the bike is Calfee custom geometry so we'll check the fork crown length, but not sure how its different than a regular Calfee small. The captain's top tube is 53.5 cm (same as Calfee small) and the rear/ stoker is 72cm (Calfee small/ med/ and large spec). What is it that makes it custom? Is it only the front geometry that reduces standover height? I am 5'6" and my stoker is 5'4", comparing our current Co Motion measurements, we expect it will fit fine (Our Co Mo captain top tube is 54 CM and stoker top tube is 71 cm).

Appreciate the dialogue, lots of new here for us.

zonatandem

XTR rear derailleurs: no issues.
Have XTR on our Zona tandem; this is our second one in 40,000+ miles.

twocicle

If the sizing does not match one of those here, then it is "custom". As far as geometry goes, it could be that the only diff is the stoker seat tube length and rear top tube angle. Can't tell if there are other mods than the fork crown height. Calfee should be able to look up the build info and provide you with all the details.

jnbrown

Congratulations on the Calfee, we really enjoy ours I think its amazing.

Fork - Ask Calfee I think they use Enve forks now?

Wheels - I would go with a custom build using White Industries hubs and one of the newer wider and deeper rims that are still sub 500g. I would ask bikeshubstore.com for recommendations.

Brakes - yes that is a brake bridge for mounting a rear brake. You will something with good stopping power like Shimano Dura Ace.

Shifters - I use and prefer Campagnolo Centaur shifters. I used to have an Ultegra rear derailleur and a Shift Mate but it was inconsistent and didn't always shift well.
I replaced the RD with a SRAM Force WiFli and got rid of the Shiftmate and it did improve the shifting. The SRAM RD is a close match for the Campy shifters, not perfect but works good enough for me.
You will want an inline cable adjuster for the front derailleur or you will never get it adjusted right, I used the Jagwire plastic one but it didn't work too well. Now I have a Shimano made out of metal and it works great.
Also a chain catcher to keep the chain from dropping if it doesn't yet have one.

Ritterview

It's sorta hard to move forward any with the drivetrain you've got now.

For us, 11-speed Campy Athena triple works great. It'd be better to have 11 speeds, and its great that with 11-speed you can use either Campy or Shimano cassettes, all the same. We use a Shimano 11-32 cassette on ours.

Shimano Ultegra chainrings shift and look the best.

All the modern stuff is 11-speed, so with 10 speed you are relegated to legacy or low end offerings.

I'm not sure what Shimano is doing with triples now, but isn't it at best 105 and 10-speed?

bwebel

We have a WoundUp fork for front caliper brakes that I'm considering switching to discs...any interest in a trade?

Baird

Jkey6

Here is a pic of the current fork. I am talking with Calfee about a new fork and painting it to match.
Let me know if you are interested in this one, I'll let you have it for a real good deal - its in perfect shape, not even a chip.

Jkey6

Back to wheelset - anyone have recent experience w/ Spinergy TX2 Stealth?

Good looking wheel, less $$ than Rolf carbon and has aluminum brake track...

twocicle

The reflectors made me do a double-take. Then looking back at the first photos raised a question out of curiosity:
Does this fork have both canti rim brake mounts plus a disc caliper mount?

twocicle

IMO, the "Stealth" rims are "like tits on a bull".
1) the BPO spokes are fat and non-aero. you can hear and actually feel the difference between BPO spoked wheels vs thin bladed spokes.
2) Spinergy rims are narrow by today's standard. The TX2 measured only 18.5mm outer. I wasn't happy with the resulting 25mm tire profile, cornering performance, or psi needed. I am pretty picky about getting my rides dialed in, much like my downhill skis. It might not matter much to some, but it does to me. Instead, try to run a wider +23mm (alloy) or +25mm (carbon) rim.
3) the TX2 w/BPO were not laterally stiff and tended to not track precisely. quite apparent on hard cornering. I haven't ridding the Stealth, but assume the BPO spokes and narrow rim profile would result in a similar outcome.

akexpress 

We had both the TX2 rims and then a set of the stealths the stealths rode much better IMO and we would probably still be riding them but we changed our Calfee frame to thru axles and at the time there was no way to convert them. Another forum member is now enjoying them. We built a set of Zipp 404 on White hubs for out new build.

Jkey6

I talked bikehubstore.com.

Suggestion was a 45mm "Gigantics" carbon rim (23.4mm external), 28 bladed spokes (Front and rear) w/ White Industries hub. Total weight ~1600gms. This would be front and rear rim brakes, no disc and carbon braking surface - which is a concern - anyone have positive (or negative) experience running carbon rims with rim brakes?

Jkey6

Routing the rear rim brake cable, it seems the only option is to route it along the side of the top tube (through the molded in cable guides), but a lot of the cable is left exposed and its right in the middle of the side of the top tube, where legs will come against it... anyone else have this same issue? My other bikes route the rear brake cable along the underside of the top tube. Also, do you use o rings to keep the cable off the finish, is it necessary?

bwebel

Our Co-Motion has a cable guide like this, I'd suggest using a full cable liner, like used with Nokon cables. It protects the cable pretty nicely, and you can fully seal it if you want to use the right cable ends. QBP (QBP #CA4263 ) carries the Jagwire equivalent in bulk and can be had fairly cheaply.

DubT

I used the Nokon product for the tight bend from the rear cable guide to the caliper brake and then put ISC Racers Tape on the frame where the cable can contact the frame. Stoker knee hitting the cable has not been an issue.

jnbrown

That is how ours is, its never been a problem, your legs should not even be close. Just remember to use the little rubber doughnuts on the bare cable so it does ping against the frame.

Jkey6

Last weekend we complete our first 'real trip' on the Calfee and it was fantastic!

For our first long ride we chose the xFL ride hosted by the Spacecoastfreewheelers. 500 riders (250 did 2 day trip, 250 were did the trip in one day). We counted 3 tandems in addition to us.

Route was Cocoa beach to just west of Kissimee for day 1 then to the gulf coast day 2. This was our first ride beyond 40 miles on the new bike, so carried plenty of tools in the bags but only required 1 adjustment which was to the stoker seat height after day 1.

The HED 3 wheels were fantastic for the full 174.6 mile 2 day trip. Nice extra benefit - with front and rear rim brakes, its so easy to remove the wheels, that we carried the bike down in the back of my wife's Prius. Was great not to worry about rain, dirt or theft. Below is a pic of us and the bike at the mid point.

Thanks for all the great build tips last 5 or 6 weeks and to the Spacecoastfreewheelers for hosting an awesome cross state ride.