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why don't they sell these in the US?

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why don't they sell these in the US?

Old 02-15-15, 09:34 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Except for kickstart's... which is the only correct one.
What? am I supposed to say "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I" now?

Did 83 miles today on my Gazelle, the spring like weather had tons of bikes out on the road. Saw not only road, and mountain bikes, but also C&V, comfort, cruiser, retro classic, Dutch, utility, discount store, recumbent, fixed, and folder. lots of folks enjoying the day riding where they shouldn't be able to according to bike snobs, and know-it-alls.
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Old 02-15-15, 09:35 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Mostly correct, however the one speed cruisers with full fenders, chainguard, kickstand for $99-$129 would probably work well enough for most real world commuters and casual cyclists. I believe derailleur models with at least 5 gears are also available in similar dress at some big box outlets. Add a rack or basket and they would be good to go for someone looking for inexpensive reliable transportation for typical bicycle commuting purposes; even if long distance, mountain climbing, blizzard enduring BF commuters can't abide such a thought.
I actually am commuting on one of these, in the 7 speed sub-species. I would have gone single speed had I been able to find the right color. It even came with a rack (a very heavy solid metal rack I replaced with a far better one). Going single speed would have made the eventual 3-speed IGH conversion that much easier. Ah well, it's a decent bike.

I ride in blizzards. And here is proof...



This was taken at the beginning of the last big snowstorm we had here. I was on my way to work. Lighting wasn't good enough on the way home. It's already paid for itself in saved gas money.
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Old 02-15-15, 09:42 PM
  #128  
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I'm bored at work: prepare for lots of words.

Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
I greatly enjoy reading the cognitive dissonance of dutch/dane-o-philes who suddenly realize that not everyone is interested in a sensible city bike with IGH, dyno hub, integrated lights/fenders/kickstand.

PS: The perfect commuting bike is the one you want to ride.
I dunno, I wouldn't mind dyno lights, fenders, and a kickstand. IGH's have their high points, too. If you don't get flats often.

But absolutely, a commuter bike is a bike you commute on. Ride what you enjoy.

Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
Great point.


I do think that a big issue is that most people in the U.S. end up with bikes that are not practical for daily transportation. They're not easy to ride for normal trips in normal clothes. They have an exposed chain, they're uncomfortable (leaning forward, saddle, etc.), unable to easily carry a purse or jacket, and no kickstand. These are the bikes that are predominant in LBS's and Wal-Mart. I think too that there's a macho element for some folks who will choose something that looks like a road or mountain bike even if good city bikes are available and would be better for their purposes.

So many regular riders swap out saddles, I dunno if that being uncomfortable is something to be criticized. Especially since people don't all seem to settle on the same saddle.


I ride a road bike with a rack in normal or gym clothes all the time.


A huge proportion of the bikes I see on MUPs(other than bike share stuff) are Electra Townie's, or stuff that with obvious resemblance to bike share bikes. And that's with the MUP having a MTB trail off of it, and good road cycling at the end of it.

Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
If each position sucks, then yeah, you need to move around a lot.

I set up my position exactly where I like it.

This is the commuting forum. We're not riding a hundred miles at a time.
I've got mild carpal tunnel and tendinitis in my hands. If I had to stick to one hand position, I couldn't ride more than 30-40 minutes at a time. With drop bars I can do 60-80 miles at a time, with absolutely no issues. Hell, sometimes I do it after work.

Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
That sounds like an ideal commuting/errands bike. Big shame on all the bike shops out there for not selling these types of bikes. I wonder why bike shops don't sell 3 speed bikes anymore ??.
When I was looking this time last year I found a fair number of 3/7/8 IGH bikes with a relaxed/cruiser geometry, and eyelets for racks and fenders.

Originally Posted by noglider View Post


If Renée Fleming were a truly good singer, she would sell more records than Taylor Swift.

To give Swift some credit, she's improved her singing a lot, and she's much better at engaging her audience to put on a show than Fleming(Yes, I've seen both). Swift is also a great songwriter. Plus, c'mon, opera to pop? Not a fair comparison in potential audience.

It is a valid point though-look at how many great artists(across all mediums-performers, composers, writers, visual arts) have died paupers.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Right on the money when discussing bike commuting and applies almost everywhere. The people who are willing tobicycle commute very long distances (greater than maybe 15 miles each way) or lots of steep hills are a miniscule number of people. Yes there are some cyclists who do and this list attracts a relatively high number of such unrepresentative bicyclists. But don't fool yourself into thinking that the enthusiast commuters cycling up and down steep hills and mucho miles everyday found posting their exploits on BF or similar lists are typical bicycling commuters.
I think it's worth noting, that with decent infrastructure/route planning, it's faster for me to ride than it is to take a bus the 12 miles to work. Before I moved when it was 17/18 and two buses, it was still faster. That's just comparing travel time, not time spent waiting for buses, too.

Admittedly, even though I was pushing 300lbs when I got a bike last year and started commuting-I was a pretty quick cross country runner in high school, and grew up mtb'ing in Colorado with my dad, who was a cat 1 roadie in another life. So even fat and as far away from fit as you can be-I was more willing to approach this commute than a lot of people, not beings cared of miles or time spent in the heat. There's also a gym right across the street from my workplace with free towel service, so still showing up to work looking respectable is quite easy.

Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
I think that next to lack of infrastructure and perhaps even a bigger issue than lack of infrastructure is the big-boxing of so many things, especially grocery stores. In urban and suburban areas they use to almost always be within 2 or 3 miles of any house (approx 5 mile spacing max). Today they are reducing the number of neighborhood stores and going with big-box groceries that are 5 to 7 or more miles away (approx 10 to 14 mile spacing). Riding 2 miles to a local grocery is very doable, 5 to 7 miles not so practical.
Eh, I do 4. It's not such a big deal. Admittedly, I tend to do my grocery shopping right after work, and just cart it all back to my apartment(12 miles). Of course if I didn't commute 3x farther(before I tack on extra miles, which I often do), I'd probably find it a lot more onerous.

...you know how some counties have mandatory military service? We should have mandatory bike riding, no motorized vehicles for three years. More health, less pollution, people caring about intelligent urban planning more, etc etc-win win win win win win win.

Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I suppose a centerstand would be more useful then a kick stand. It could be used as a bike stand when removing a wheel to fix a flat or make some adjustments. Not that I ever plan on getting one.

I'd like a center stand for when I'm loading up groceries, but don't miss a kickstand.
@katsrevenge when I was only riding 5 miles, I rode something very similar (jamis hudson), it was a great bike. I eventually found it inadequate as my needs/wants/expectations of a bike grew. But it's still a great bike.

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Old 02-15-15, 09:47 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post
Plus, c'mon, opera to pop? Not a fair comparison in potential audience. It is a valid point though-look at how many great artists(across all mediums-performers, composers, writers, visual arts) have died paupers.
Right, sales volume is sometimes a very poor indicator of quality. Look at the crap on TV news. And still so many people rely on it and think it's news.
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Old 02-15-15, 09:56 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post
@katsrevenge when I was only riding 5 miles, I rode something very similar (jamis hudson), it was a great bike. I eventually found it inadequate as my needs/wants/expectations of a bike grew. But it's still a great bike.
Both my commute and the stores are *mostly* around 5 miles from home. It's great for that distance. Last year I had a very similar cruiser I took far further without too much trouble. Had a better saddle on that one; this is just the stock saddle. It's fine for a 5 mile ride.

I do have lighter/nicer bikes. I just don't want them getting all salty! And...thinner tires and snow bother me.
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Old 02-15-15, 10:52 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post
I dunno, I wouldn't mind dyno lights, fenders, and a kickstand. IGH's have their high points, too. If you don't get flats often.
I don't want to quibble, but I'm curious as to the issue with IGH's. Mine's an old Sturmey, and it's easy to fix a flat while on the road. Now, I use upright bars, so I can just flip the bike upside down to service a wheel.
I've got mild carpal tunnel and tendinitis in my hands. If I had to stick to one hand position, I couldn't ride more than 30-40 minutes at a time. With drop bars I can do 60-80 miles at a time, with absolutely no issues. Hell, sometimes I do it after work.
Definitely, health and ergonomics are vital considerations. My issue is the opposite, needing to keep my neck relatively straight, so I rely on upright bars. Straight bars pound the hell out of my wrists, and I see why there are attachments for them, that provide additional hand positions. If it weren't for my neck, I'm sure I'd go back to drops.
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Old 02-16-15, 11:31 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
I don't want to quibble, but I'm curious as to the issue with IGH's. Mine's an old Sturmey, and it's easy to fix a flat while on the road. Now, I use upright bars, so I can just flip the bike upside down to service a wheel.

Definitely, health and ergonomics are vital considerations. My issue is the opposite, needing to keep my neck relatively straight, so I rely on upright bars. Straight bars pound the hell out of my wrists, and I see why there are attachments for them, that provide additional hand positions. If it weren't for my neck, I'm sure I'd go back to drops.
I had a nexus 7, and managed to get a cable loose half the time when changing the tube. Probably user error.

I had to take the wheel out though-fenders didn't allow me to change the tube with the wheel still bolted in. Again, maybe user error-it was my first bike as an adult.

I sure do miss not being able to shift while stopped sometimes though.


Not gonna lie, even with double wrapped bar tape and gloves-SOMETIMES I still mess the flat bar ergonomic grips. If I had a bit more money/time/software, I'd explore 3d printing or CNC machining a similar structure that would bolt/glue to drop bars. Which would then go under the bar tape.

Originally Posted by katsrevenge View Post
Both my commute and the stores are *mostly* around 5 miles from home. It's great for that distance. Last year I had a very similar cruiser I took far further without too much trouble. Had a better saddle on that one; this is just the stock saddle. It's fine for a 5 mile ride.


I do have lighter/nicer bikes. I just don't want them getting all salty! And...thinner tires and snow bother me.

Yeah, I used to take mine further(8-17 miles), but I just plain didn't enjoy it as much past 7-8 miles. I use the same saddle(brooks imperial b 17) on the old cruiser(no longer have; frame crack-spent extra $ to get a different bike instead of a straight warranty replacement) as the replacement road bike.


I don't have to worry about winter though. It's 42 right now, and everybody's complaining. I'm sure actual winter weather effects bike choice.
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Old 02-16-15, 11:39 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
because igh bikes don't sell in the usa. for example, trek heavily promoted the soho for years and discontinued it due to a profound lack of interest.

i should note that i tested the soho and was completely unimpressed.
May I ask what you didn't like about it? Just curious.
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Old 02-16-15, 01:11 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Yan View Post
May I ask what you didn't like about it? Just curious.
*the belt drive had annoyingly loud clicking/whirring sounds.
*the drive train felt significantly more sluggish than a comparable derailleur+chain system.
*the roller brakes did not have enough stopping power for my commute.
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Old 02-16-15, 01:18 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
*the belt drive had annoyingly loud clicking/whirring sounds.
*the drive train felt significantly more sluggish than a comparable derailleur+chain system.
*the roller brakes did not have enough stopping power for my commute.
I see. It sounds like there is a high price to be paid for ease of maintenance. Thank you.
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Old 02-16-15, 01:38 PM
  #136  
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I worked at a bike shop briefly in summer of 2011, and there was some model Trek upright bike with a Shimano 7 speed hub. I don't remember if it had a chain or a belt. The drivetrain felt very friction-free. I've ridden a belt-driven bike and didn't notice anything bad about it. Was it possible the belt was misaligned or something?

I can feel a little friction in first gear in an old AW hub, but not enough to make it a deal breaker. My guess is modern IGHs are even better than that.

As for ease of roadside repairs, it depends on how good you are. An old English 3-speed is easy for me but not for everyone. If I had a bike with a full chaincase, though, I would put a very heavy tire on the rear, because then the job gets pretty bad.
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Old 02-16-15, 02:00 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I've ridden a belt-driven bike and didn't notice anything bad about it. Was it possible the belt was misaligned or something?
My impression is that belt drives need near perfect alignment while chain drives can have considerable slop (just think how cocked chains get on derailleurs and are still quite and smooth).

I have to say that I'm not a big fan of changing a rear tube or tire on any IGH (and I'm not too great at patching tubes so did once end up replacing a rear tube that many people would have successfully patched). Good mechanics can change a rear tube or tire in about 10 minutes or patch a tube in 5. OTOH, only having to fix a flat every 5 or 10 years has it's advantages.
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Old 02-16-15, 02:09 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post
I've got mild carpal tunnel and tendinitis in my hands. If I had to stick to one hand position, I couldn't ride more than 30-40 minutes at a time. With drop bars I can do 60-80 miles at a time, with absolutely no issues. Hell, sometimes I do it after work.
With a proper (Dutch) upright there should be little to no pressure on your hands so no need for multiple positions.

Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post
Eh, I do 4. It's not such a big deal.
Not the average person though. If my wife is cooking dinner and needs some stuff from the store she'll ride her bicycle if it's 2 miles but if what she needs is 4 or 5 miles away then she'll often take her car unless it's nice weather and she's got plenty of extra time.
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Old 02-16-15, 02:24 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
My impression is that belt drives need near perfect alignment while chain drives can have considerable slop (just think how cocked chains get on derailleurs and are still quite and smooth).
I think one thing that has worked against Gates belt drives is that they left a bad first impression that has been communicated far and wide. The new "centertrack" design has fixed a lot of problems with the earlier revisions.
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Old 02-16-15, 03:25 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
With a proper (Dutch) upright there should be little to no pressure on your hands so no need for multiple positions.

Not the average person though. If my wife is cooking dinner and needs some stuff from the store she'll ride her bicycle if it's 2 miles but if what she needs is 4 or 5 miles away then she'll often take her car unless it's nice weather and she's got plenty of extra time.
I found otherwise with a Jamis Hudson. Which I didn't enjoy on rides longer than, I dunno, 6-8 miles. It was great for under that, though.

I don't mind that trip to the grocery store, but I live alone, so meals aren't really time sensitive. That said, I do tend to shop immediately after work-at the grocery store 1/4 mile away, then just cart everything home th e normal commute length(12 miles if I don't tack on more for fun).
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Old 02-16-15, 07:29 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
With a proper (Dutch) upright there should be little to no pressure on your hands so no need for multiple positions.
With our spring like weather there are gobs of bikes out, and I noticed that comfort bikes are starting to give mountain bikes a run for their money in terms of popularity with casual cyclists of all ages and gender. One thing that really stood out is how high the bars are on some of them, many making my Gazelle look like it has drops in comparison.
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Old 02-16-15, 07:32 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post
I found otherwise with a Jamis Hudson. Which I didn't enjoy on rides longer than, I dunno, 6-8 miles. It was great for under that, though.

I don't mind that trip to the grocery store, but I live alone, so meals aren't really time sensitive. That said, I do tend to shop immediately after work-at the grocery store 1/4 mile away, then just cart everything home th e normal commute length(12 miles if I don't tack on more for fun).
Man, those bars are high, that's a lot more like a cruiser than a roadster.
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Old 02-16-15, 07:35 PM
  #143  
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I eventually used a 450mm seatpost and had the seat just about level with the bars, @kickstart .

edit: I should've paid more attention to the picture, mine was an IGH and a rigid front fork. Oh well, not relevant.
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Old 02-16-15, 08:45 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
With a proper (Dutch) upright there should be little to no pressure on your hands so no need for multiple positions.
It must be a horses for courses thing. I just tried out an even taller stem for my upright, and if I'm sitting too straight, it gets really uncomfortable to pedal and maneuver the bike. For me, swept bars are the most comfortable, and have eliminated the need to change positions.

In a sense, a bike is an adaptation of our bodies to the environment, and we all have different bodies, so we end up with different ways of fitting our bikes.
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Old 02-16-15, 09:34 PM
  #145  
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I'd guess that there's considerable difference in the geometry of a Dutchie and that Jamis. Looks like you have to lean forward a bit on the Jamis. On proper Dutch bikes your assbone, back, neck, and head are aligned, your hands rest on the handlebars but not really weight bearing, and when you pedal you don't feel any backwards force (a common problem on many comfort & leisure bikes). I've not found a comfort, leisure, beach, bikeshare, or hybrid that is very comfortable for very long. I've ridden Dutch bikes around all day in complete comfort.
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Old 02-16-15, 09:57 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Sullalto View Post

Yeah, I used to take mine further(8-17 miles), but I just plain didn't enjoy it as much past 7-8 miles. I use the same saddle(brooks imperial b 17) on the old cruiser(no longer have; frame crack-spent extra $ to get a different bike instead of a straight warranty replacement) as the replacement road bike.
I don't have to worry about winter though. It's 42 right now, and everybody's complaining. I'm sure actual winter weather effects bike choice.
It never bothered me but I'm pretty had to bother!

Hate you. LOL It's in the negatives right now and half the water pipes in my house (as well as my toes) are frozen! Stupid, annoying winter!

Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
I'd guess that there's considerable difference in the geometry of a Dutchie and that Jamis. Looks like you have to lean forward a bit on the Jamis. On proper Dutch bikes your assbone, back, neck, and head are aligned, your hands rest on the handlebars but not really weight bearing, and when you pedal you don't feel any backwards force (a common problem on many comfort & leisure bikes). I've not found a comfort, leisure, beach, bikeshare, or hybrid that is very comfortable for very long. I've ridden Dutch bikes around all day in complete comfort.
This is the 'Dutch style' bike I own, bought in the states. Mine lacks that basket and is black.. but same deal. This bike has that ride. Exactly. It is extremely comfortable. It does not ride like my cruiser or any of my other bikes. It is not my fastest bike but man... I can just go forever on it. I've even used it as a utility bike. It takes a week's worth of food and a big bag of cat litter just fine.

I did switch the handle bars to North Road style on mine as I'm short and it feels more comfortable.

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Old 02-16-15, 10:14 PM
  #147  
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Here's my Schwinn:



Dutch enough? It was just awful to ride that way. Honking up steep hills was the worst part. I lowered the bars. Now it's much better. Again, my point is not to dismiss Dutch bikes, but just to re-iterate that our bodies are all different.

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Old 02-16-15, 10:18 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by katsrevenge View Post

Slap some clipless pedals and carbon fiber aero bars on there and you'll really have one sweet ride!
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Old 02-16-15, 10:24 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Slap some clipless pedals and carbon fiber aero bars on there and you'll really have one sweet ride!
But then I'd need neon spandex and a pointy helmet, right?

The world is just not ready for that.
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Old 02-16-15, 10:31 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by katsrevenge View Post
But then I'd need neon spandex and a pointy helmet, right?
And logos. Lots of gaudy logos, lettering and stripes covering you and the bike. Oh my.
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