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70's Gazelle Tandem

Old 07-07-20, 03:12 AM
  #26  
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Built the wheel yesterday. As is common for me I made a mistake first time around (swapped the long and short spokes) so I had to rebuild the wheel.
My girlfriend told me she was in awe at my patience. Then she told me to stop and get to bed.

But now I do have a new rear wheel for the tandem!

Parts:It's (not) a featherweight at 4560 gram (!) (~10 lbs).
Next up is actually installing the wheel on the bike and seeing how it rides.

I might replace the tyre with a pair of Grand Bois Hêtre's in white but that will depend on what I do with the rest of the bike in the future. The Schwalbe's are fine tyres and just €13 around here so they are one of the cheapest options in 650B VS. the €50 per tyre for the GB's.




Impossible to center with the spokes swapped so I had to unbuild and rebuild the wheel




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Old 07-07-20, 05:22 AM
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Old 07-07-20, 07:26 AM
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I tried fitting it in the frame over my lunch break... only to realize the 120mm OLD is too narrow for the 135mm OLD hub.

Time for some DIY fork spreading & cold setting, it's currently too stiff to do by hand.
That's going to be fun, never done that before on a frame.
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Old 07-07-20, 02:24 PM
  #29  
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I meant to make my comment on this bike here but I accidentally put it in the "what are you wrenching on" thread.

Have you ridden a tandem? I find it quite hard. I was hoping it would improve my spouse's stamina but it didn't. However, it reduced mine, so we are more closely matched but not in the way I had hoped. Maybe one day I will get the hang of it. First there is the mental drain from the responsibility of keeping it upright. Also, because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, I am constantly rowing through the gears. Second, I have to work with my arms and shoulders. I'll be doing some upper body strengthening, so that may help.
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Old 07-07-20, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I meant to make my comment on this bike here but I accidentally put it in the "what are you wrenching on" thread.

Have you ridden a tandem? I find it quite hard. I was hoping it would improve my spouse's stamina but it didn't. However, it reduced mine, so we are more closely matched but not in the way I had hoped. Maybe one day I will get the hang of it. First there is the mental drain from the responsibility of keeping it upright. Also, because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, I am constantly rowing through the gears. Second, I have to work with my arms and shoulders. I'll be doing some upper body strengthening, so that may help.
I can seriously sympathize with you, Tom. As much as I want to see my wife and I pedaling merrily away, its merely my personal ignis fatuus. I keep seeing tandems, and I keep wanting them, but reality has a strong pull on this aged body of mine, as well as the realization that my wife won't be able to to adapt to tandem riding. My quest for tandem enlightenment will have to wait for the next life.
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Old 07-07-20, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by J.Higgins View Post
I can seriously sympathize with you, Tom. As much as I want to see my wife and I pedaling merrily away, its merely my personal ignis fatuus. I keep seeing tandems, and I keep wanting them, but reality has a strong pull on this aged body of mine, as well as the realization that my wife won't be able to to adapt to tandem riding. My quest for tandem enlightenment will have to wait for the next life.
I don't follow. How do you know it won't work?

My spouse was terrified when we first tried it, but I gently asked her to persevere. It didn't take too long for her to feel safe. She choose the tandem almost half the time we ride together. And that's with no pressure from me.
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Old 07-08-20, 03:35 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I don't follow. How do you know it won't work?

My spouse was terrified when we first tried it, but I gently asked her to persevere. It didn't take too long for her to feel safe. She choose the tandem almost half the time we ride together. And that's with no pressure from me.
My wife is abnormally fearful of just riding in general. A tandem would just amplify that. I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie.
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Old 07-08-20, 09:04 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
I tried fitting it in the frame over my lunch break... only to realize the 120mm OLD is too narrow for the 135mm OLD hub.

Time for some DIY fork spreading & cold setting, it's currently too stiff to do by hand.
That's going to be fun, never done that before on a frame.
I am curious which method you gonna use in order to spread the dropouts. I've tried
and the result was far from ideal. You have to be lucky to get an equally spaced rear triangle with that.
Actually, I am thinking about spreading the dropouts on my Gazelle CM as well. I've got a nice read wheel with a Maxi-Car hub with 130mm OLD. I could also try to respace the hub to 120mm, of course. I have to decide..

Cool project, by the way!

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Old 07-08-20, 12:29 PM
  #34  
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I fought the fork.. and the fork won

Originally Posted by alexnagui View Post
I am curious which method you gonna use in order to spread the dropouts.
[...]
Cool project, by the way!
I tried the one from RJ the bike guy as well today and it worked... somewhat.

I used 8mm stainless steel threaded rod, nuts and washers.
Managed to spread the fork from 120mm to 122mm then 127mm this way by spreading it to 160mm before the threaded rod started buckling and the threading started to strip.
Felt it necessary to start using safety goggles by the that time.
It's definitely a stiff fork.

Not wide enough for the 135mm of the hub + the axle puller + the rear cover of the chainguard but I did manage to get the wheel in.
Which is a succes in my book.
I will have to retry this again some time, perhaps with some extra reinforcement or thicker rods.

There is plenty of space around the bottom bracket so I might even be able to go wider than the 42mm on the tyre but this is fine for now.
I hooked up a spare outer brake cable I had lying around but I will need to pick up an outer shifter cable to run through the gears. The 5th gear it defaults to is a bit much to get started.

Anyway, pictures!




Spread to 160mm


Set to 127mm


Buckling rod




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Old 07-08-20, 12:39 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I meant to make my comment on this bike here but I accidentally put it in the "what are you wrenching on" thread.

Have you ridden a tandem? I find it quite hard. I was hoping it would improve my spouse's stamina but it didn't. However, it reduced mine, so we are more closely matched but not in the way I had hoped. Maybe one day I will get the hang of it. First there is the mental drain from the responsibility of keeping it upright. Also, because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, I am constantly rowing through the gears. Second, I have to work with my arms and shoulders. I'll be doing some upper body strengthening, so that may help.
We haven't, that's why I will just make it rideable first before investing much more money in it. We are still riding a lot on our own and when my girlfriend can go back to the office again after September she will probably be riding her bike 160km a week to work so chances are her stamina will be better than mine shortly.
But I do look forward to the experience, should be interesting. Worst case scenario I swap the original rear wheel in again and sell it to someone else. With what I paid for it I might even make a small profit.
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Old 07-08-20, 02:51 PM
  #36  
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As an occasional tandem rider, and vintage fan = this project warms my heart.

Eye too, have a heavy rear wheel w/ drum brake assisted 40 spoke tandem wheel.
Have not weighed it but my hub is Phil, not Sturmey Archer. so you can have the weight award.

This pic almost 25years ago. Just a tandem now.

Some days I could take and pick-up the kids from school. Elementary school so it was cool.

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Old 07-08-20, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
As an occasional tandem rider, and vintage fan = this project warms my heart.

Eye too, have a heavy rear wheel w/ drum brake assisted rear (40 spoke) tandem wheel.
Have not weighed it but my hub is Phil, not Sturmey Archer. so you can have the weight award.

This pic almost 25years ago. Just a tandem now.

Some days I could take and pick-up the kids from school. Elementary school so it was cool.
That's such a cool picture! I can imagine it must have been fun to pick up the kids like that. No kids here yet though.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:21 AM
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While I am waiting for the weekend before I can work on the bike some more and take another shot at the rear fork I was looking back at something I came across a few years ago; hydraulic drum brakes.

There is a small company in Taiwan that makes the Pavolution Keeper, essentially a slot in piston for Sturmey Archer drum brakes to offer lighter braking.
Originally designed for trikes and velomobiles where lots of people prefer drum brakes over disc brakes in mountainous terrain. Anthrotech in Germany offers a modified Magura piston for their trikes as well.
Though often they use customized drum brakes with ribbed cooling bodies which are virtually impossible to overheat from GinkGo-Veloteile.

I don't suspect it is necessary and they seem hard to come by but my engineering heart does flutter a bit over the thought of something as silly as this.


Pavolution Keeper hydraulic drum brake piston


GinkGo Veloteile air-cooled drum brakes 90mm top view

GinkGo Veloteile air-cooled drum brakes 90mm side view

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Old 07-10-20, 01:52 PM
  #39  
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I used the threaded rod method for spreading my Super Course, and I got very asymmetrical results. Now I have to correct it.
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Old 07-12-20, 03:42 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
I tried the one from RJ the bike guy as well today and it worked... somewhat.
Happy it worked for you! Even though that you could't reach the desired spacing. Buckling is a real problem!

Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I used the threaded rod method for spreading my Super Course, and I got very asymmetrical results. Now I have to correct it.
The problem with this method is that you have no control over the deformation of chain and seat stays in relation to the symmetry plane of the bike bacause both dropouts are being spread at the same time. You will get appropriate results only when the left stays are equally stiff as the rights ones so they can all deform in the same way but in reality I guess it's almost never the case due to unequal brazing, material differences, tolerances and other variables. I could see this method working if some kind of a frame jig is used with a threaded rod attached to that jig so that each dropout could be spread separetely from each other.
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