estebe

So here is the deal. I found this very nice (for me) Grandis for sale, sort of what I`m looking for as my first "modern"bike. The seller is a little difficult older gentleman and not local ( so can`t see the bike for myself) but managed to get some pics from him. Here is the interesting part:

seller claims the frame is 56-58 cm. However the head tube is 19.5 cm but the top tube only 54 cm? Does it look like custom geometry? As I said I really like the bike but I`m 6`2 and usually ride a 58 cm top tube. The bike costs a substantial chunk of money and would basically deplete my bike funds. Should I stay away or go for it? I know, I know, asking about bike fit over the internet... Also the seller claims he`s 6` tall and the bike in the pics is set up for his size...

Advice please...

Kontact 

Is the ruler level? It doesn't look like it starts at the middle of the head tube, so 54 could just be poor measuring.

estebe

No, the measuring seems right, however he doesn`t hold the ruler at the intersection of the head tube with the top tube... SO his measured 52 cm (as per pics) looks to me as 54 cms...

Aubergine 

If the top tube is sloped downward, as it appears, the effective top tube length will be another cm or two longer than the seller measured.

estebe

You know, I never even noticed that the top tube could be sloped ... So if he measured 52 cms as shown in the pic, you think it could be a 56 cm to tube measured correctly? That I might make work with a seat post with setback and a longer stem...

Aubergine 

I dunno. Maybe. Even if it is, I would be concerned that it is still too small. Although come to think of it, the seat tube’s effective length would also be longer if the top tube slopes. So that also is a positive for you.

Wildwood 

@estebe - my rule of thumb for any bike purchase is that if the deal has 'inherent problems', I walk. Questionable bike fit and an ornery seller who doesn't supply complete info are inherent problems. Depleting your bike funds and a distant seller are additional problems. Unless the price is a 'steal' - I would walk. Lots of bicycles to buy and the RIGHT ONE has to fit. Your statement, "I might make it work with a seat post with setback and a longer stem... " is a give away you are willing to gamble on fit to close the deal. Pass.

estebe

Very true on all accounts, unfortunately... For me Grandis is one of the grail bikes and this particular one might be made with over-max tubing so double the temptation. The price is 500 euros (615 usd) negotiable

T-Mar

It's a relatively modern compact geometry bicycle with a sloping top tube and an integral headset. The sloping top tube provided a more compact main triangle, resulting in a lighter and more rigid frame. The longer seat post compensated for the increased road shock. It also provided more sizing flexibility through increased stand over height, allowing manufacturers to accommodate standard sizing range with fewer frame sizes. Consequently, it was more economical for manufacturers.

Given that the top and bottom cups are inside the head tube it will be longer than standard. The integral cups will add a couple of centimetres of head tube length, as will the oversize top and down tubes.

Generally, this style of frame is spec'd with an "effective" top tube. In other words, the geometry is reported as if it had a standard, horizontal top tube. It's hard to provide an accurate effective top tube length from a photo but it would appear to be in the region of 55.5cm. From what I see, it is probably about equivalent to a standard frame with 56cm square geometry.

thinktubes 

Agree with @Wildwood.

Too many unknowns and too much cash to purchase without test riding.

If you need a 58tt and that's a 54tt, it will never fit right.

Wildwood 

Wouldn't it be a shame to buy a grail bike that doesn't fit?
Depleting bike budget funds for a wall hanger would really frustrate me every time I looked at it.

dunrobin

Admit to yourself that its not going to work and carry on. You CAN make it work but the foot overlap and clownish proportions will disappoint.

Fourthgrace

Unlikely to be Over Max with modern geometry. This is Over Max, but probably not your size. You get what you pay for (usually!).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grandis-o...kAAOSwfWpajwWy

Stunning!

Lascauxcaveman 

I like my Grandis a lot (an early 70s model, SL tubing, thinned lugs, fancy cutouts) but don't really see anything appealing about the modern ones. The one in the pic looks like standard modern compact geometry you see on a million bikes made in the last 15 years or so, but of course if i was thinking about buying one, I'd want to measure and test fit it in person.

That's an aluminum frame, isn't it? Not that there's anything wrong with that (I own a couple Cannonades) but it's just kind of modern and generic, with a lot of contemporary competitors just as good, only without the cachet of the Grandis marque. I might change my mind about that after actually riding one, but I wouldn't bother hunting one down and taking a risk on a substantial investment the could turn into a white elephant. One that might not fit me well.

dddd

I recently bought (used and freshly crashed) a 2016 Colnago CX-Zero in the compact frame style from a woman who was nearly my exact height and leg length, and she was a strong rider who claimed the bike fit her very well.
I was surprised to measure a tall head tube but only 55.5cm effective top tube, which I thought would be too short.
But this endurance bike surprised me, it has a 73.5-degree seat tube pushing the toptube forward, and the 72.5-degree headtube angle gives plenty of toe clearance.

I'm long in the leg for my 5'9" height so the tall headtube is fine, and I did end up changing the 10cm stem for an 11cm stem, though either stem is fine on all the rides I've done so far.
One thing about a steeper headtube angle is that a somewhat longer stem can be used without losing desirable steering qualities while riding both in and out of the saddle, so it is quite useful to know what the seattube and headtube angles are in addition to linear measurements. Mine handles ok with either stem but the 11cm stem took away some of the effortless cornering feel that makes this Colnago special.

Shown here with the original 10cm cm stem:

jimmuller 

I'm actually posting here just to subscribe. But I thought I'd toss out another Grandis impression. Mine is circa 1980, steel of course. It is handful. The steering is ultra-quick, the ride is hard but responsive, and it climbs very well. I think it is tiring to ride but only because it encourages me to ride hard without letting up. YMMV. I wouldn't have a clue about fitting a modern style frame.

Lascauxcaveman 

Mine's just the opposite; lanky and and on the soft side. Nice all-day rider, a bit flexy in the SL-tubed, large-frame kinda way.

estebe

well, thank you all. I decided (reluctantly) to pass. Funny enough the bike didn`t sell yet, I would have thought that it would have been gone in 1 day

SteelCharlie

Do not succumb to non-buyer's remorse and do it!

Over the last few decades I've passed on a number of "deals" that were marginally acceptable. Have what Wildwood wrote posted on the fridge - you cannot read that too many times.
Besides the $ you "save" will be there when the real need arises. Which it will of course whether you have the $ or not.

estebe

Just a short update, it seems that sometimes waiting is the best solution indeed. Found and bought a Grandis my size (58 cm square), it`s aluminium with carbon forks so not steel but should do as as a platform for a light, fast bike. Very excited. Cant`t imagine why someone would put a 9 speed Sora gruppo on sucha frame, but alas it was cheap enough to justify buying the frame... Thank you all for the very pertinent advice given here!

Lascauxcaveman 

9-speed Sora on a modern aluminum frame seems entirely appropriate to me. I've never heard anyone here say that group functions poorly. Sure, it's well outside the realm of C&V, but so is the rest of the bike.

As it sits, it looks plenty fast, though

Fourthgrace

Ah those beautiful Grandis bikes.....