Zhyrclew

I bought a used bike and it had these clipless pedals with it.

I have some look cleat that seem to fit in it, so the pedals probably use a look mecanism (plus it is written "product of France"), but I'm not sure they are look pedals, because they are old and I heard at the beginning of shimano's clipless, they used look patented mecanism. To me, the pedals seems more shimano-ish than look-ish, what do you think ?
Oh yeah by the way, there is no brand logo visible or anything like that, only some traces of black ink where the pedal is the most used.

Wildwood 

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Zhyrclew

Thank you a lot, I was struggling with the link limitation of 10 post users, you were right on point. I wish there was a 'spoiler' option to hide by default the attachements, and click a button to see the images, because my post is a bit of a mess right know...

Lazyass

Those are Look pedals. Shimano parts have never been made in France.

Zhyrclew

Well, Lazyass, i've tried to search a bit for the pedals before coming here, and the pedal that I found that was the closer to the one I have, was this one :

link -> velobrico.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/retro-rescue-shimano-dura-ace-pd-7401-pedals/

It's a shimano pedal with "product of france" on it, because at the time they did not have their own patent for the mecanism, it seems like.

Unfortunatly, as you can see, it's still very different from mine.

CroMo Mike 

It's a Look pp series pedal. Search ebay for "Look pp pedals" and find more, most of them have a float adjuster knob on the back end of the catch block, but otherwise similar. I have several pairs of them. To remove the spindle they sell a wrench to remove the plastic ring where the spindle goes into the body, then you can pull the spindle out with the sealed cartridge bearing. The outboard end of the spindle runs in a needle bearing that is pressed into the body and is near impossible to remove, so leave it alone and keep it clean. The grit feel in mine was due to grit between the spindle and the plastic retainer ring. I had to remove the cart bearing to remove the plastic retainer ring to clean it out, then install a new cart bearing since the old one gets damaged in removal. BTW, one of the plastic retainer rings is LH thread. Remove them in the direction opposite the little arrow molded onto them.


If you want to remove the catch block, just drive out the hinge pin with a drift (nail punch) or similar tool. Dirt and stuff accumulates behind the block.


I have a pair of pp-396 here in pieces - they are the ones with the float adjusters. I could post a picture of the parts, but it would include some parts yours lack. I have a pair of intact pp-357 that look like yours with no float adjusters.

Zhyrclew

Thanks a lot, I would never have dared to try to punch out the hinge pin, I'm happy to be able to clean that.
As for the spindle, can you link me to wrench that fits the plastic ring ?

I find that the look pp serie is not quite the same as mine, but I think I finally found the exact model, and it's because of you- well, your signature : It made me remember that apart from shimano, some parts of the groupset of the bike was campagnolo. Here is an ebay seller (quite ambitious) selling the exact model I have :

link -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-R...c/253199551283

It's a campagnolo clipless pedal !
I dunno exactly what kind of campagnolo pedal, because i can't find trustworthy documentation on it, so if you have something like that, I would realy appreciate it!

CroMo Mike 

I had heard of the Look-made Campy pedal but never seen one. Good find. The wrench can be seen if you search ebay for "Look axle tool". It's the round red one. Why it's so expensive ($15 + shipping) I don't know. I used my milling machine to make my own wrench after damaging the ring trying to use pliers, etc. Perhaps some kind of single-hook thing similar to a bottom bracket lock ring tool would work now that we know which way to turn it (opposite to the arrows). I also made a split-collar to hold the cartridge bearing while I hammered the shaft out.

Salamandrine 

Yes, you're right. There must be some documentation somewhere. Identifying it was the biggest hurdle.

It was a funny time. Shimano and Campagnolo were paying royalties to Look to use their design.

T-Mar

The subject pedals are Campagnolo Chorus, specifically PD22CHQR, circa 1992-1994. Licensed from Look, Campagnolo made two grades of Look compatible pedals, Record and Chorus. Chorus used the standard Look axle, while Record used a Campagnolo designed axles with triple bearings. The easiest way to distinguish the two is via the axle retainer nut. The Record uses a chromed hex nut, while Chorus uses the black scalloped nut.

Zhyrclew

If you have time to take picutures, I would gladly have a glance at the wrench you made, and at the split-collar, although i don't think I will go further than taking out the spindle to clean and regrease it.

Yes, I thought I would never find it...
I've often heard here and there about look bike pieces, and have considered it as a good brand. Only recently I learned that it was french and started to have even higher consideration for it, being a fellow countryman.
Now, as I understood it, most (all?) of the look clipless pedals's cartridge bearings are not made to be disassembled, at least not to the point of shimano's, I find it quite deceiving.

Oh, thank you very much for the precision, I used the reference you gave and discovered this wonderfull website, that I will definitly keep close for all my future searches : velobase.com

As for the precise model of my pedals, it seems that the only ones that have this weird useless plastic cover at the back (you can see it clearly on my pictures) are the low-end of the campagnolo's pedals at this time, the 'Campagnolo PD-12AT QR, Athena' (the plastic covers are difficult to see on the illustration pictures, but they are there if you look closely).

JohnDThompson 

At the Dawn of the Clipless Era, both Shimano and Campagolo licensed France-built Look pedals to be branded with their name. This only lasted a couple years before each company came out with their own clipless designs.

CroMo Mike 

Here is the homemade wrench and bearing puller collar. Note that the collar has a small step (ring) made into the end of the bore to grip below the bearing. I removed the snap ring, installed the collar, and supported the collar while using a mandrel press to push the shaft out of the bearing. The bearing was on there pretty tight. A new bearing is recommended after that since the pressure was transmitted through the balls and races. The pedals shown here were bought on ebay cheap "for parts" to fix some more presentable ones.

SteelCharlie

I use the Shimano 7401 and 6401 pedals on almost everything. Really fine pedals, easy in/out and use those thrifty cleats. Always easy to find them on ebay for whatever parts. I was in need of a couple tension adjuster screws so I picked up a pair of pedals for less than Shimano prolly would've charged for the screws if they sold them which they don't. I don't know if the factory wrench axle wrench is still available or not but I planned ahead and scored one many years ago. Oh, yeah - Product of France on all of them.

Ghrumpy

Well sorta. Earlier, Campagnolo had come out with their own original design (Record SGR-1) that was the Delta brake of clipless pedals: Too heavy, too complicated, didn't work all that well. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

JohnDThompson 

SGR came out after the Look design was on the market; it was Campagnolo's first attempt to escape from licensing pedals from Look.

But you're right, there were earlier clipless pedals like the 1970s Cinelli M71 "Widowmaker" that never really caught on. The Look pedal was the first successful clipless design on the market.

Ghrumpy

Sure, I wasn't saying the SGR-1 was the first clipless pedal, only that it was Campagnolo's first clipless pedal, and came out before Campagnolo licensed the Look design.

The Cinelli M71 was really only useful for velodrome racing, and even then worked better with a toe strap, and had a really high platform as well. Interesting idea, but not very practical.

Zhyrclew

Thank you a lot for the pictures ! English isn't my native language and I had some trouble to understand what you had to do to remove your 'grit' feel, with the photos it's much clearer.
Still, I don't think I have what is needed to proceed to such an operation with the collar. Plus, I don't think my pedals are in too much of a bad shape.
Althougth I hope to be able to reproduce the wrench you did, and seeing it on your photos helped me to understand how you made it, even though it barely looks home-made!
I'll keep you informed when I try something, but it might be in a little while

According to it's nickname, it seems like on the contrary, it was really "catchy", maybe a little too much ?

repechage

One would think that. When Look dominated the pro peloton with their new clipless pedals, Shimano was in a fix, Shimano sponsored teams were abandoning the Shimano pedals, the look Patent was solid. Time to cut a deal. Campagnolo went SGR and lost big. Shimano paid for royalty and initially product. Thereby saving face and learning. They soon enough licensed the tech and manufactured their own.

Then also worked like mad to create SPD. No royalties required. Campagnolo also licensed the Look system for a time. A short interval where almost all clipless shoes could use the same cleat, shoes were almost all fitted with the Look three hole sole connection.

As they are white, I think Look. the black lock ring retains the bearings. Good luck finding replacements if required.
Also, good luck finding the tool to remove the ring, you need to capture all or nearly all the notches to avoid messing things up.

repechage

I do not think so, note the pedal shaft wrench flats on the Campagnolo units only provide One pair of wrench flats.
I think the Campagnolo pedals also used a chrome retaining ring finish. Made by Look though, possibly with supplied axles.

Salamandrine 

Yep. After Looks came out there were a few years of a free for all, with lots of competing clipless designs. Look emerged supreme. Campagnolo tried to compete at first and lost, then they caved. Everyone licensed Look's patents and/or contracted with Look to make their pedals for a few years.

During this licensee era, Shimano tried to push SPD as a road system, which people seem to have forgotten. They were definitely trying to get away from the royalties. Later on there was the short lived SPD-R for a couple (?) years. By that time Look's patent rights had ended, and Shimano came out with SPD-SL, which was barely warmed over Look cleat passed off as something new.

Zhyrclew

You're right, that can be the case on some Campagnolo pedals, in particular on the Record & Chorus ones.
Unfortunatly for me, it seems like I have the lower-end one, Athena one, according to this website : velobase.com
Precise reference seems to be "Campagnolo PD-12AT QR, Athena"
Sorry I still can't post any links, but if you search "campagnolo pd" on velobase.com, you'll have a list, that I think is trustworthy.

link -> velobase.com/ListComponents.aspx?SearchID=66b50f8b-ef99-4afd-b311-6c1a731c994b

T-Mar

My mention of a "hex" was in reference to the axle retaining nut, not the axle itself. Sorry, if I did not make this clear. BTW, upon closer exaqmination the hex nut appears to be stainless steel.

T-Mar

I wouldn't go so far as to say that LOOK reigned supreme by the time that Campagnolo signed their agreement with LOOK. There were a lot of riders on Time and they were used by several European pro teams including Amaya, Banesto, Buckler, Helvetia, Histor-Sigma, Postobon, Tonton Tapis, Tulip, TVM, Weinmann, and Z-Peugeot.

There were a few cases where, due to individual preference or contracts, a team was equipped with incompatible pedal systems. Sometimes, this caused problems in the event of a bicycle change. I recall a case where Sean Kelly lost out due to his preference for toe clips and straps, when the rest of the team were clipless.

Kontact 

This was the Look tool, which you can still buy new:


Shimano had a gray plastic tool, which may also work.

None of these parts where so forcefully torqued together that you couldn't just use a bench vice and a strip of leather to hold the splines.