Why 3-Cog Freewheels?
06-20-18, 06:58 AM
#1
Mr. Anachronism
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Why 3-Cog Freewheels?
I've noticed that Chinese 3-gear freewheels have been popping up for sale on ePay lately. Where would you use these? What advantage would they have over 5, 6 or 7 cogs?
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06-20-18, 07:03 AM
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Cuz nobody needs more than 3 gears - the rest is all Madison Ave. stuff.
06-20-18, 07:56 AM
#3
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Maybe these are for folding bikes? I do have an old Gitane folder (60s?) that has a 3-speed freewheel. Interesting that there is a market for these chinese freewheels... I believe I've seen this brand in single speed freewheel for the hipster single-speed/ cruiser market.
06-20-18, 08:09 AM
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06-20-18, 09:53 AM
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OTOH, I just got back from a ride where I used exactly three ratios. Not everyone lives and rides in the Alps.
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06-20-18, 10:15 AM
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That ^^^^^^^ answers the question "why only three speeds?". That does NOT answer the question "why a three-speed freewheel?"
06-20-18, 10:25 AM
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There are two answers to this question.
First of all, to address the freewheel you spotted on eBay, I don't know what that's for; clearly there's a use for it on the Chinese market. I suspect a moped or electric bike off some sort. I know someone who bought one, but I don't remember who it was. Anyway, he was not pleased, which brings us to the second answer.
Second, a lot of early derailleurs were made to shift three speeds. Trivelox (obviously), Simplex, Cyclo, Huret, etc all made three speed derailleurs. They were mostly made for 1/8" chain, and were state of the art for some time. Three speed systems were to some degree superceded by four speed speed systems, and once you had four speeds with a 1/8" chain it was no big deal to go to give five s with 3/32" chain, and so on.
If you have an old bike that's spaced for a three speed freewheel, you may have some difficulty finding one. But as I understand it, the eBay one shown is not what you're looking for. It has three cogs, but the freewheel body is wide, like the size of a five speed freewheel, and it will not solve your problem.
First of all, to address the freewheel you spotted on eBay, I don't know what that's for; clearly there's a use for it on the Chinese market. I suspect a moped or electric bike off some sort. I know someone who bought one, but I don't remember who it was. Anyway, he was not pleased, which brings us to the second answer.
Second, a lot of early derailleurs were made to shift three speeds. Trivelox (obviously), Simplex, Cyclo, Huret, etc all made three speed derailleurs. They were mostly made for 1/8" chain, and were state of the art for some time. Three speed systems were to some degree superceded by four speed speed systems, and once you had four speeds with a 1/8" chain it was no big deal to go to give five s with 3/32" chain, and so on.
If you have an old bike that's spaced for a three speed freewheel, you may have some difficulty finding one. But as I understand it, the eBay one shown is not what you're looking for. It has three cogs, but the freewheel body is wide, like the size of a five speed freewheel, and it will not solve your problem.
06-20-18, 02:48 PM
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It might be me you're thinking of, Rudi, as I bought one of those to use on an older French city bike that came with an RD that could only handle 3 or 4 speeds. The problem with the Chinese-made one is that it's essentially three cogs plus a lot of spacers on a 5-speed body. As you noted, spacing is 120mm, I believe, and some of those older frames need 115mm.
06-20-18, 03:11 PM
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06-20-18, 06:49 PM
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When I was younger, a friends father had a Sturmey Archer type 3 speed rear hub, with a 3 speed freewheel and derailleur and two chainrings up front, giving him 18 speeds. Neat setup
06-20-18, 08:49 PM
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The first derailleur that actually worked well was released in 1924 in both 2 speed and 3 speed versions for use with 1/8" chain. This was the Cyclo. Later they came up with 4 speed and 5 speed versions in the 30's for 3/32" chain.
If you had a 3 speed derailleur on your bike, it was not a big step to put on a double chainring and get 6 gears for riding in the Alps.
If you search on Ebay, you will still find many old 3 speed freewheels from French freewheel manufacturers. These freewheels were made for quite a while as Peugeot still used 3 speed Simplex derailleurs on their lower end bikes till the 60's at least.
If you had a 3 speed derailleur on your bike, it was not a big step to put on a double chainring and get 6 gears for riding in the Alps.
If you search on Ebay, you will still find many old 3 speed freewheels from French freewheel manufacturers. These freewheels were made for quite a while as Peugeot still used 3 speed Simplex derailleurs on their lower end bikes till the 60's at least.
06-21-18, 10:45 AM
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One of our members has a JC Higgins with the double chainring and a derailleur-IGH hybrid rear transmission.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
06-21-18, 11:24 AM
#14
~>~
With all of the drawbacks of both IGH and derail systems and dubious benefits, finicky/fiddly set-up and leisurely shifting it's peculiarly British.
An advanced degree in mathematics would be helpful to determine which gear selection is "next" up or down the range. I gave up and taped the gear-inch/hub/cog positions to the stem long ago.
"Let's see, is that one click down on the hub and two cogs up or the other way 'round?"
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06-21-18, 05:42 PM
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One of these had a three-speed freewheel and one had a four-speed. Both worked well in my Alpless neighborhood.
Flandria 500A.
Helium 650B.
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Helium 650B.
06-22-18, 06:54 AM
#16
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My '56 AW/Cyclo 3-cog set-up was bought as NOS in '72 and has been in continuous service since on several different town bikes w/ single chainrings.
With all of the drawbacks of both IGH and derail systems and dubious benefits, finicky/fiddly set-up and leisurely shifting it's peculiarly British.
An advanced degree in mathematics would be helpful to determine which gear selection is "next" up or down the range. I gave up and taped the gear-inch/hub/cog positions to the stem long ago.
"Let's see, is that one click down on the hub and two cogs up or the other way 'round?"
-Bandera
With all of the drawbacks of both IGH and derail systems and dubious benefits, finicky/fiddly set-up and leisurely shifting it's peculiarly British.
An advanced degree in mathematics would be helpful to determine which gear selection is "next" up or down the range. I gave up and taped the gear-inch/hub/cog positions to the stem long ago.
"Let's see, is that one click down on the hub and two cogs up or the other way 'round?"
-Bandera
First w/ 20, 18, 16, then Second with 20, 18, 16, 14, then Third with 18, 16, 14 -- just like a 53-40-30/14-16-18-20 derailleur setup with the two crosschain combinations, both redundant with middle ring combos, skipped.
It had the primary advantage of an IGH, i.e., downshifting while stationary AND the primary advantage of a derailleur system, i.e., potentially tigheter ratiometric progression.
I agree that the more common 13-19-25 combination did not work out anywhere near as well, and my tighter system already provided a near-ideal ca. 40 to 100 gear-inch range, with 10 non-redndant combinations in 9 pretty evenly-spaced steps.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
06-22-18, 07:19 AM
#17
~>~
I loved my hybrid transmission, but I had the benefit of the rare 14-16-18-20 cogblock. Shift pattern was trivial:
First w/ 20, 18, 16, then Second with 20, 18, 16, 14, then Third with 18, 16, 14 -- just like a 53-40-30/14-16-18-20 derailleur setup with the two crosschain combinations, both redundant with middle ring combos, skipped.
It had the primary advantage of an IGH, i.e., downshifting while stationary AND the primary advantage of a derailleur system, i.e., potentially tigheter ratiometric progression.
I agree that the more common 13-19-25 combination did not work out anywhere near as well, and my tighter system already provided a near-ideal ca. 40 to 100 gear-inch range, with 10 non-redndant combinations in 9 pretty evenly-spaced steps.
First w/ 20, 18, 16, then Second with 20, 18, 16, 14, then Third with 18, 16, 14 -- just like a 53-40-30/14-16-18-20 derailleur setup with the two crosschain combinations, both redundant with middle ring combos, skipped.
It had the primary advantage of an IGH, i.e., downshifting while stationary AND the primary advantage of a derailleur system, i.e., potentially tigheter ratiometric progression.
I agree that the more common 13-19-25 combination did not work out anywhere near as well, and my tighter system already provided a near-ideal ca. 40 to 100 gear-inch range, with 10 non-redndant combinations in 9 pretty evenly-spaced steps.
All good reasons that set-up has migrated across a few town bikes in the last 46 years of service, that and the undeniable obsolete/weird appeal of using '50's tech for it's own sake.
It only took a decade or so of use to get the shift sequence imbedded in muscle memory, time well spent.
-Bandera
06-22-18, 07:26 AM
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Yep, being able to shift while braking or stopped is a primary requirement on a town bike for me and the 3 cog set-up does widen the range w/ some useful steps for commuting/errand running speeds well beyond the AW's design.
All good reasons that set-up has migrated across a few town bikes in the last 46 years of service, that and the undeniable obsolete/weird appeal of using '50's tech for it's own sake.
It only took a decade or so of use to get the shift sequence imbedded in muscle memory, time well spent.
-Bandera
All good reasons that set-up has migrated across a few town bikes in the last 46 years of service, that and the undeniable obsolete/weird appeal of using '50's tech for it's own sake.
It only took a decade or so of use to get the shift sequence imbedded in muscle memory, time well spent.
-Bandera
06-22-18, 07:35 AM
#19
~>~
Thanks!
This versatile now C&V British club design has been road and 'cross raced, used as a FG winter/wet bike, loaded for touring and now does town bike service hauling frozen free range chickens and veg from the farmers mkt and just plootering about.
-Bandera
This versatile now C&V British club design has been road and 'cross raced, used as a FG winter/wet bike, loaded for touring and now does town bike service hauling frozen free range chickens and veg from the farmers mkt and just plootering about.
-Bandera
06-22-18, 10:26 PM
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In 1960 or maybe it was '61 I had an Olmo with GranSport derailleurs and 4-speed Regina. I didn't realize how cool it was until it had been gone for a couple decades. Ah, well. Young and stupid
