friday1970

I just bought a Miyata 1400 for $200, original components, just a few paint scuffs. No cracks. Very excited. Perfectly sized for my 5'6" body.

I'm fairly versed with the materials used by Peugeot in the late 80's, with Reynolds 531 and 501, Columbus, Super Vitus, and Carbolite 103. My PGN10 was a 501, and it was stiff, but light.
So an ad came up in Craiglist for a Miyata 1400, 50cm, and I jumped on it, not knowing much about STB tubing. I read the brochure, but it only tells me it's light and triple butted. The entire weight is reported to be 22lbs.

So, how does STB tubing compare with the Reynolds line, or other variety of steel tubing, especially in terms of weight and stiffness? Is there tubing that you can say "STB tubing is almost exactly like ______"?

Thanks for all answers
-Tim

Wordwreckin

Similar to Columbus SLX. Miyata ride amazingly well, entry level to top of the line. That tubeset is every bit as good as anybtubeset the competitors at the time were making. Maybe even had newer tooling than Reynolds and Columbus at that time.

Kontact 

I doubt STB had rifled tubing like SLX.


With the exception of some tubing which is junk and can't stand up to brazing heat, any two tubes are going to ride identically if they have the same diameters, wall thicknesses and butt lengths. It doesn't matter if one tube is chrome manganese and the other chromemoly.

I imagine "STB" is a selection of tubes from a quality maker like Ishiwata, and it might be somewhat standard compared to something the tubing company already sold, or it might be a blend of thinner tubing in some places and thicker other - and varied across the size range.

Tubing gets good reputations if it is consistent in dimensions and responds correctly to heat. If STB had the same dimensions as SL, it would ride just like SL.

Chrome Molly

Miyata manufactured their own tubing...

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/622800-what-splined-stb-miyata-triple-butted-tubing.html

friday1970

Thanks. I'm wanting to make sure I'm somewhat upgrading from my Reynolds 501 frame to something lighter and stiffer. I would be happy with my Peugeot PGN10, but at a 56cm frame and after trying to make it fit for me, I'm realizing that this bike is just too big for me.

So the idea is to either move to an equal based steel frame or something better. Columbus was a better material than Reynolds 501. And if it compares to Columbus SLX, then I'm quite satisfied with my purchase.

Kontact 

Well, I am just full of BS. That is indeed just like SLX.

Pardon me, Wordwreckin.

The Golden Boy 

I suppose it should be noted- because it hasn’t so far- it’s Splined Triple Butted tubing.

Miyata 1000LT "Spline Triple Butted CrMo" seat tube decal by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

Miyata 1000LT "spline Triple butted" decal by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

T-Mar

As noted by The Golden Boy, STB stands for Splined Triple Butted tubing. It does have helical ridges, just like SLX & TSX. However, Miyata took the concept even further, applying them to the fork blades.

It could be argued that STB was superior to SLX and TSX in that it was triple butted, allowing for the different stress levels at opposite ends of the tubes. Furthermore, since Miyata had their own tubing mill, they had the ability to custom draw the optimum tube for a particular application and did not have to rely on standardized tubesets. IMO, Miyata STB was one of the great tubesets of the late 1980s and early 1990s.

mongol777

I have couple of Miyata bikes. Right now I have 414 (early 90's) which was my training bike last year. Ride quality good to very good on my personal scale
I also have 1988 Miyata 1000 and it is amazing. Loaded/unloaded, modern group and wheels/tires or original, gravel or pavement - ride is just glorious.
I also had several other Miyata's over the years including their low end models, MTB and cross/hybrid bikes - all were really good, solid performers.
But again - every time I ride 1000 it puts such a huge grin on my face, I think it is really good bike.
If I had a chance to buy 1400 for $200 - totally, shut up and take my money.
Current state of my 1000. Even though it is setup for long days in the saddle - my average speed and time on daily rides is not that different from my racier bikes.
1000 front.JPG

The Golden Boy 

I realized I hadn’t really answered the question...

I only have one bike that’s got the Splined Triple Butted tubing- a 1990 Miyata 1000LT.

My other tourers are early/mid 80s grand touring bikes. The Miyata 1000LT feels or rides nothing like any of the other tourers. I believe by the late 80s/ early 90s- bike companies were adapting to what bike touring was becoming. There were no more big production 531/Columbus SL/SP framed touring bikes. The good bikes were “CrMo” and there wasn’t an emphasis on the “grand” or prestigious aspect of the bikes- they were becoming efficient gear haulers. To that end, the “strong” aspect was more represented than lightweight or prestigious. By the time of the 1990 1000LT- a big step had been taken towards the whole ‘expedition tourer’ concept.

So- to compare the ride of my 531C framed 85 Trek 720 with my STB framed 1990 Miyata 1000LT isn’t exactly an apples to apples to oranges comparison. The Miyata is much more stiff; much more “truck” than “72 Cadillac Eldorado.” That’s not to say it’s an uncomfortable, slow pack mule- Although I haven’t had it out last year- I do think it’ll handle a larger load “better” than the Treks or the Voyageurs.

I guess what it comes down to is that It’s heavier and/but it doesn’t have the “give” I associate with the other tourers.


1990 Miyata 1000LT by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

noobinsf 

Sooo... I have a Univega Gran Premio with "triple butted" tubing, and I know it is made by Miyata. But, is the Univega tubing splined as well?

Chombi1 

I think that most Japanese tubesets do not get the praise they deserve as they were not marketed as well as their European counterparts. "SLX" just sounds a lot cooler/sexier than "STB",........... which, by the way, sounds too close to meaning something else totally different......
Ishiwata "1 & 2" just sounds too dull, totally unimpressive. Tange, on the other hand, did a much better job with their Prestige and Infinity. I guess they had a guy working for them that's more familiar with western marketing tastes.
Good thing is, I noticed a lot of frame builders consider most Japanese top tubesets to generally be of higher quality than their Euro counterparts (I've seen that said about Tange Prestige tubing. I suspect the same applies with STB tubing). Supposedly more dimensionally consistent and better overall quality control.
How that translates to maybe a better riding bike could be totally subjective, but I think everything adds up to how good the final product is, that gets to the customers.

clubman 

My Made in Japan 86 Bianchi Professional was with envy of the Pinarello weekend crowd I rode with. The 022 F&F had Campy dropouts, with chrome sox, Suntour Sprint 6 group and was over a pound lighter that the SLX/Super Record Italians.

miamijim

In addition to this Miyata would draw tubes to a specific frame size. With Reynolds and Columbus small frames had the butted ends cut off. Miyata didn't do that. Also, Columbus splines we cut at 90 degrees to the tube wall, Miyata splines were angled, supposedly this was less stressful on the tubes.

friday1970

Thanks for the info. Stiff is good. And I'm assuming it's still much better and comfortable than aluminum.
Now that I'm back in Michigan I'll be working on my 1400. I plan to move much of the lighter stuff over from the Peugeot PGN10 to the 1400 to lighten it up and modernize it (while keeping the original components sealed and stored). The 1400 will become my main road bike. I've pretty much made the decision now to thin the herd and sell my beloved PGN10, but not before I try to make it nearly OEM.

Rafe Hollister

STB is Splined (rifled) Trupple Butted. Miyata is the only bike manufacturer that made their own tubing.

bikemig 

Was Miyata the only bike manufacturer to make its own tubing? I know that Miyata made its own (and I know good it is since my old racing bike was a Team Miyata) but I didn't know it was the only bike manufacturer to do so.

Piff 

You could argue Raleigh also did the same thing...at the very least with their top of the line frames (SBDU, Special Lightweights). Miyata may have been different in that they could specify the butting to the model and the frame size across the whole range if so desired.

At least, I think...I'm about 99% sure this been talked about a million times by Tmar at length in a number of different threads, all one has to do is spend a bit of time looking through to see how Miyata was different compared to other manufacturers.

TenGrainBread 

Sir, you've replied to a 5 year old comment that others have already replied to.

79pmooney

As I understand it, Miyata is a big Japanese corporation with its paws in many fields. We know the bikes. I'm betting their steel mill operation makes the Miyata bikes look like small change. Now, the Japanese also have long liked sourcing stuff from close to home. (I worked at the flagship Fuji shop in Boston - well across the river in Cambridge - 1977. We all knew Fuji and all the parts manufacturers were very close.) Miyata gets to be super close to a quality steel mill. Fun!!

And, sourcing close to home in recent times? Look at Toyota and Honda. Toyota, the founder of "just in time" sourcing; copied by the Detroit Big Three and others but - Toyota's sources were down the street, not other side of the planet. So when COVID hit they were never completely hamstrung.

My '82 or '83 Pro Miyata decal just tells me its butted and I think it says Cro Mo. Fork too. The frame isn't super light. It is stiff (by the old skinny tube standards), rides absolutely wonderfully as a pure thoroughbred racer and the tubes have a ring to them that is wonderful. This Miyata brand (sounds like a generic!) tubing rides and feels as nice as anything I've ever ridden. Perfect for the bike it's on.

Plead guilty to answering an old thread. Can I get off on probation?

BMC_Kid 

I love a chance to show my 1990 Team Miyata even if it’s a five year old thread. It, like the brand itself, doesn’t get the recognition it deserves from those that are not are fans of the brand. Even I will look past it sometimes to take out the Zullo, Pinarello, or Paramount, all with Columbus SLT tubing but make no mistake, the frame is every bit as good as those brands and doesn’t skip a beat. It’s a wonderfully riding and responsive frame. This is top of the line stuff; Miyata even splined the fork. This frame was the pinnacle of Miyata’s steel team frames. The next year they shifted their focus to titanium, then shortly thereafter to carbon. STB was then found only in the 900 series frames (and awesome Touring 1000), all excellent frames with the 1991 914 SE I believe the previous team frame sans Miyata Team colors.

I bought my frame NOS back in early 2000, and built it up with what I consider the best looking Dura Ace group ever, 9-speed downtube shifting DA-7700. I recently liberated a DA-7700 controller/shifter from another bike and will probably make that change next time I am home. I am feeling guilty now that I didn’t take her out on a ride when I was home last September. I’ll have to make it up to her in March!

bikemig 

I have the same bike. I raced and trained on it for more than a few years. It was one of the finest riding bikes I have ever owned.