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Bottom Bracket and Crankset Upgrade

Old 02-15-17, 11:57 AM
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Bottom Bracket and Crankset Upgrade

Hey all! I'm riding my 2000 model Trek 930 a lot this spring. I notice a roughness in its bottom bracket. Bikepedia gives a similar 1999 model an LP 27 E bottom bracket. I'm thinking about buying a new, lighter crankset, like an XTR FC M980 triple. If I make this upgrade, which BB should I also get? Something like SM BB 93 XTR? Would that work? I think XTR components would add a coolness factor, I'm not looking for the cheapest repair. What about compatibility problems? What tools will I need to make the swap? I'm planning to do it myself.

PS, I've asked at two bike shops and got, "buy this new bike, it's cheaper" for an answer. I'd have gladly paid for costum work, but sales people think their role is to help me make financial decisions. This bike is my project. I'm not going abandon this project to buy a different bike. Thanks!
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Old 02-15-17, 01:05 PM
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I must say you are going for the top-o'-the-line crank. The FC-M980 is a "Hollowtech II" crank and has the spindle built into the drive-side crank arm so you need an external bearing Shimano bottom bracket. The correct one is Shimano's SM-BB93, English threaded.

You will need the installation tool to match the cup's splines and the Park Tools BBT-49 is one. However, that bottom bracket includes an adapter to let you use the same installation tools used for the previous Shimano road and MTB external cup bottom brackets such as the BB-6700, BB-5700, etc.

However, if your bike currently has the LP-27E bottom bracket you note, the "E" means the front derailleur is mounted on a ring that is held in place by the driveside bottom bracket cup. I'm not sure if the XTR bottom bracket is suitable for that use but I believe it will work as it's suitable for both 68 mm and 73 mm bottom bracket shells so the drive side spacer can be replaced with the front derailleur's E-ring.

You will need different tools to remove the current crank and bottom bracket and that's probably best left to the bike shop since it should be a one-time job and not worth buying the tools.
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Old 02-15-17, 01:16 PM
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The photo shows a front der clamping band around the seat tube, so no E mount in practice here.


But I do question the weight "gains" with a new crankset having any real value in ride quality. I also feel that XT level is actually often more durable then XTR is. Depending on the version (and I don't memorize spec lists any more, gave that up 25+ years ago) there might be more Al used for fasteners (instead of steel) so weight differences are minor compared to the strength, corrosion resistance of steel fittings. Andy.
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Old 02-15-17, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
However, if your bike currently has the LP-27E bottom bracket you note, the "E" means the front derailleur is mounted on a ring that is held in place by the driveside bottom bracket cup. I'm not sure if the XTR bottom bracket is suitable for that use but I believe it will work as it's suitable for both 68 mm and 73 mm bottom bracket shells so the drive side spacer can be replaced with the front derailleur's E-ring.
From what I can tell from the OP's picture, the bike is currently running a standard clamp-on FD. So no issues there.

The XTR crank will certainly work, but will cost more than the entire bike is worth. Personally there are about a dozen upgrades I'd make before springing for that crank. But it's your money so do what you want.

Assuming your chainrings are in good shape the standard procedure here would be to simply install a new bottom bracket. Any shop should be able to do this for the cost of the part (~$20) plus a little labor.
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Old 02-15-17, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FastJake
From what I can tell from the OP's picture, the bike is currently running a standard clamp-on FD. So no issues there.

The XTR crank will certainly work, but will cost more than the entire bike is worth. Personally there are about a dozen upgrades I'd make before springing for that crank. But it's your money so do what you want.
Yeah, both you and Andy caught that. I should have looked more closely at the photo instead of relying on the Bikepedia specs. So, as you both noted, a standard non-E bottom bracket will work.

As to the cost and advisability of XTR instead of XT or lower, I certainly agree with both of you (and his LBS) but the OP was very specific that he isn't looking to save money on the upgrade and values the "coolness factor" so it's his money.
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Old 02-15-17, 01:31 PM
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If the point is customization there's no particular need to stick with Shimano. There are a lot of cool MTB cranks out there.
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Old 02-15-17, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FastJake
From what I can tell from the OP's picture, the bike is currently running a standard clamp-on FD. So no issues there.

The XTR crank will certainly work, but will cost more than the entire bike is worth. Personally there are about a dozen upgrades I'd make before springing for that crank. But it's your money so do what you want.

Assuming your chainrings are in good shape the standard procedure here would be to simply install a new bottom bracket. Any shop should be able to do this for the cost of the part (~$20) plus a little labor.
FastJake, that front derailleur is not the original. The left stopped shifting a few years ago, and the LBS replaced the original FD with this one. It works, but it always kind of bugged me that they just assumed I'd want the cheapest possible repair. What are some other usual common upgrades? I'm interested. I've already changed the saddle, grips, fork, bars and post--there is not one thing I'd do different, and I did it myself . I'm keeping the wheels, they're true and not worn out. I can't imagine changing the brakes, as these look nice and work well. The crank is the obvious next upgrade, in my mind. Oh, someone told me better cable housings are possible. How are those better?

This bike has no monetary value to me, other than a simple machine upon which to apply my imagination.

Best Regards,
Geoff
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Old 02-15-17, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
I must say you are going for the top-o'-the-line crank. The FC-M980 is a "Hollowtech II" crank and has the spindle built into the drive-side crank arm so you need an external bearing Shimano bottom bracket. The correct one is Shimano's SM-BB93, English threaded.

You will need the installation tool to match the cup's splines and the Park Tools BBT-49 is one. However, that bottom bracket includes an adapter to let you use the same installation tools used for the previous Shimano road and MTB external cup bottom brackets such as the BB-6700, BB-5700, etc.

However, if your bike currently has the LP-27E bottom bracket you note, the "E" means the front derailleur is mounted on a ring that is held in place by the driveside bottom bracket cup. I'm not sure if the XTR bottom bracket is suitable for that use but I believe it will work as it's suitable for both 68 mm and 73 mm bottom bracket shells so the drive side spacer can be replaced with the front derailleur's E-ring.

You will need different tools to remove the current crank and bottom bracket and that's probably best left to the bike shop since it should be a one-time job and not worth buying the tools.

Thank you for the information!
I remember it originally had the ringed type of FD, but that one wore out, and was replaced by the LBS with this "other style" a few years ago.
I'll look for the BB and tool as you suggest.
Geoff
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Old 02-15-17, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Vortac180
FastJake, that front derailleur is not the original. The left stopped shifting a few years ago, and the LBS replaced the original FD with this one. It works, but it always kind of bugged me that they just assumed I'd want the cheapest possible repair. What are some other usual common upgrades? I'm interested. I've already changed the saddle, grips, fork, bars and post--there is not one thing I'd do different, and I did it myself . I'm keeping the wheels, they're true and not worn out. I can't imagine changing the brakes, as these look nice and work well. The crank is the obvious next upgrade, in my mind. Oh, someone told me better cable housings are possible. How are those better?

This bike has no monetary value to me, other than a simple machine upon which to apply my imagination.

Best Regards,
Geoff
What do you use the bike for? Off-road mountain biking? Commuting or paved riding?

Your list is good and makes sense. Tires would be number one on my list, of the things you haven't changed. Good tires will make a huge difference in how the bike rides, feels, and your speed.

Personally I'd get some sweet XTR pedals before the XTR crank. Nice pedals feel great to click your feet into. And some nice shoes if you don't like the ones you have now.

Kool Stop brake pads if you don't already have those.

I don't know what fork you put on. But as far as suspension forks go, high end ones are (usually) WAY better than low end or even mid-level ones. Unfortunately it's difficult finding a decent 26" V-brake fork these days.

Keeping the wheels for now makes sense. Down the line if you're feeling adventurous, build your own set of wheels. It's incredibly rewarding and I'm sure you'd appreciate the process if you enjoy customizing your bike.

Last edited by FastJake; 02-15-17 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 02-15-17, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FastJake
What do you use the bike for? Off-road mountain biking? Commuting or paved riding?

Your list is good and makes sense. Tires would be number one on my list, of the things you haven't changed. Good tires will make a huge difference in how the bike rides, feels, and your speed.

Personally I'd get some sweet XTR pedals before the XTR crank. Nice pedals feel great to click your feet into. And some nice shoes if you don't like the ones you have now.

Kool Stop brake pads if you don't already have those.

I don't know what fork you put on. But as far as suspension forks go, high end ones are (usually) WAY better than low end or even mid-level ones. Unfortunately it's difficult finding a decent 26" V-brake fork these days.

Keeping the wheels for now makes sense. Down the line if you're feeling adventurous, build your own set of wheels. It's incredibly rewarding and I'm sure you'd appreciate the process if you enjoy customizing your bike.
Yes, I like it. Thank you. I'll look for an XT crankset instead of the XTR.
My pedals have a quite a few miles, and years, on them. I've seen XTR pedals for sale at the bike shop. I didn't realize they are better. Good idea! I also have an XT rear hub in my parts box I could use to build a rear wheel. Never thought of it. The bike shop is going to hate me when I order a rim and spokes.

Fun!

Geoff
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Old 02-15-17, 03:33 PM
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Being cheap, I'd suggest getting a new bottom bracket, period. $25 installed, I'm guessing, and your 17 year old bike keeps on going. For the price of some of the high-end cranks, you could get a medium range bike with a better then 17 year old fork that'll ride smoother. Why do you want to build a custom Corvette on a F150 chassis?
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Old 02-15-17, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
Being cheap, I'd suggest getting a new bottom bracket, period. $25 installed, I'm guessing, and your 17 year old bike keeps on going. For the price of some of the high-end cranks, you could get a medium range bike with a better then 17 year old fork that'll ride smoother. Why do you want to build a custom Corvette on a F150 chassis?
pdlamb, I appreciate your thoughts. What I don't want is to end up with something that doesn't function correctly--that would be a waste. Replacing nearly worn-out parts with better ones, on a bike I like, is not really a waste.
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Old 02-16-17, 06:58 AM
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I took my Trek 7000, an earlier model, and put a mix of Deore and XT 10sp parts on it, including new wheels, and couldn't be happier. But the one thing I did NOT change was the crank/BB and front derailleur. That was too much trouble. I rebuilt it instead with new bearings.
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Old 02-16-17, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vortac180
I think XTR components would add a coolness factor, I'm not looking for the cheapest repair.
Save the $170 it costs to get an XTR rather than XT crank and apply it to a bunch of other things on your bike. I get that you arent looking for the cheapest repair, but that doesnt mean you need to go to the extreme end of the spectrum.

A new XTR crankset on your bike wont be cool. It wont up your coolness factor. It needs to be said- the fact that you want to spend money for coolness is, by definition, not cool.

Buy components that you like and that you want on your bike for your experience. If thats XTR, well then ok. I doubt(seriously doubt) you would find value in XTR versus XT...or even regular Deore.


- You could take that extra $170 you would have spent and get some quality tires which are lighter and more supple.
- If the Jett suspension fork isnt working well or is absurdly heavy, you could look into a new air fork for $175-275.
- Is shifting working well? If not, changing from 8sp to 9sp would be $70 or so in total.


Your money, spend it how you want. I think thats a great bike to update and keep using. TT Triple butted frame?...thats cool. $300 XTR crank on it?...not so much.
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Old 02-16-17, 10:14 AM
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mstateglfr,

Thank you for your opinion.

You have good ideas:

The tires, Kenda Kross Plus, are new and what were recommended by my LBS. I like them for now. When they wear out, I'll buy new.

That Jett fork was fine, but my daughter's bike had a frozen fork, so I removed her OEM Suntour and put the RS Jett on my daughter's Diamondback where it gets good use. My current fork is rigid and I like it.

The front shifting is fine. The rear shifting is working OK, but gets out of adjustment frequently. It's a PITA, as I have to give it that half turn adjustment nearly every ride, every day. It seems this started when the front derailleur was replaced. I don't know why. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Respectfully, I did not ask what is attractive to someone else. There is no objectivity to that subject, although, probably many on the forum agree with you.

Thank's everyone for your answers!!! My main question: what's needed to replace the crank and will a more modern one fit? That question was answered. I'll just have to make my own decision. At this point, I'm more interested in a rebuild experience (be it good or bad) than the costs.

What a great forum and good people!
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Old 02-16-17, 10:47 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/embed/GYY3bI...p://vuglee.com
I remember seeing this video awhile ago, might provide some good hints for equipment upgrades
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Old 02-16-17, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Vortac180
The tires, Kenda Kross Plus, are new and what were recommended by my LBS. I like them for now. When they wear out, I'll buy new.
Good to hear. If what you have is what you like, perfect.

Originally Posted by Vortac180
That Jett fork was fine, but my daughter's bike had a frozen fork, so I removed her OEM Suntour and put the RS Jett on my daughter's Diamondback where it gets good use. My current fork is rigid and I like it.
Awesome! Rigid can be a lot of fun and a good challenge. It makes each ride more interesting in a good way.

Originally Posted by Vortac180
The front shifting is fine. The rear shifting is working OK, but gets out of adjustment frequently. It's a PITA, as I have to give it that half turn adjustment nearly every ride, every day. It seems this started when the front derailleur was replaced. I don't know why. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.
Odd. Perhaps thats where some time and money can be spent. New cables and housing may be all thats needed, or perhaps the shifter and/or derailleur arent in good working order.

Originally Posted by Vortac180
Respectfully, I did not ask what is attractive to someone else. There is no objectivity to that subject, although, probably many on the forum agree with you.
Sorry, when you mentioned a component having a coolness factor, I(and it looks like other posters) took that to mean coolness to others. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
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Old 02-16-17, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Vortac180
The front shifting is fine. The rear shifting is working OK, but gets out of adjustment frequently. It's a PITA, as I have to give it that half turn adjustment nearly every ride, every day. It seems this started when the front derailleur was replaced. I don't know why. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Sounds like a fraying cable, probably in the shifter. Replace it now -- and the housing, too, while you're at it -- or wait until it breaks and leaves you in high gear. At the bottom of a big hill. Far from home or your car.
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Old 02-17-17, 09:54 AM
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It's the Internet, here's my take on looks. The newest look is sharp, angular edges, on an older bike it doesn't fit in. I look for a few generations old, lightly used or take-off Shimano cranksets, there's scads available on ebay for great prices.
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Old 02-18-17, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH
It's the Internet, here's my take on looks. The newest look is sharp, angular edges, on an older bike it doesn't fit in. I look for a few generations old, lightly used or take-off Shimano cranksets, there's scads available on ebay for great prices.
Here is a couple examples from a previous thread--looking good to me! I see the newer parts on the older frames as a sign of continued love and enthusiasm for the older bike frame. It's the best type of recycling. Also, the newer parts are lighter and function as well or better. To me the improved weight or function also make them pretty. It's similar to putting a modern engine in a classic car. Some might disapprove, but not me.



https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/445334-sin-upgrade-old-bike.html#PhotoSwipe1487415744833
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/445334-sin-upgrade-old-bike.html#PhotoSwipe1487415744833

Best Regards,
Geoff

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Old 02-18-17, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Vortac180
Yes, I like it. Thank you. I'll look for an XT crankset instead of the XTR.
My pedals have a quite a few miles, and years, on them. I've seen XTR pedals for sale at the bike shop. I didn't realize they are better. Good idea! I also have an XT rear hub in my parts box I could use to build a rear wheel. Never thought of it. The bike shop is going to hate me when I order a rim and spokes.

Fun!

Geoff
If you decide on the XT crank, look for an XT triple front derailleur. I located one last summer. I installed it on my 02 Giant hybrid. When I rode the Giant with regularity I had it setup with a 1 x 10, my wife rides it now so I reinstalled the triple and added the XT der.
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