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Mystery Meat 1

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Mystery Meat 1

Old 02-22-19, 09:33 PM
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Mystery Meat 1

Two bikes so two threads
Just like at school or in the army - you can't turn it down but you wonder what the hell it is. Well, at least here they look pretty damn good but I have no idea what they are under the bling.

Back story - Owner dies last year at 72 and estate up for sale. He was a pack rat who saved Brooks seats and seats that would make a dollar store clerk laugh. He had mason jars filled with rusted components and bundles of cheap steel seat posts, but, he had some nice stuff also.

Bikes are very dusty but minimal rust and will clean up very well


1st bike, (Aka: "Flat Bar bike")

No name - no stickers





Owner replaced the Cinelli bars (which he kept, even wrapping up the brake cables) with cheap black flat bars









Brake levers are CLB






Actual brakes are Dura-Ace






RD is a Crane





FD and Cranks are Campagnolo (No idea what model cranks)







Serial number 69963





Laprade seat post







So What is it????

Last edited by WGB; 02-22-19 at 09:39 PM. Reason: detail
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Old 02-22-19, 09:36 PM
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Only ten photos per post so two more
The generator located behind the BB is a nice touch




Last photo - He taped the frame to prevent scratches caused by the kick stand.

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Old 02-22-19, 10:11 PM
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I can,t help with id but i do know that it is hard to id frame from components. The guys with lots of experience like photos of all the frame details,cheers
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Old 02-22-19, 10:21 PM
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Simplex DO's point towards the bike, being French...
Maybe a Peugeot, as also the rear brake bridge that do not have reinforcing tabs and the domed stay ends at the DO's seems to suggest.
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Old 02-22-19, 10:31 PM
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Can you provide a picture of the seat cluster, (ie where the tubes meet below the seat)?
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Old 02-23-19, 06:09 AM
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Do you know what size the seat post is? Can you read the threading on the BB cups? Any pics of the head luggs?

Did Cineli ever make the smaller French size stems? What is a 2.21 or something?
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Old 02-23-19, 07:23 AM
  #7  
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The build is a total mash-up of serviceable functional and high-quality parts. It's not possible to deduce frame brand from parts - anything could have been done. The frame is clearly from between mid-1970s up to perhaps 2005 because of its traditional construction, lugs, DT brazeons. But we see no details of lugs, other frame details, fork crown, fork blade/chainstay/seatstay end treatments, tubing, et cetera et cetera et cetera. Subsequent photos need to be much higher quality in resolution and lighting. These are adequate if you want to sell parts, "FS: Generic steel ??? frame with parts - collectible???"

It's probably: owner found frame, owner had parts, owner said "let's make this rideable," attached parts-on-hand to frame. Zero traceability to origin. You have what looks like a good rider, if it fits you. If it doesn't, some of those parts have some value. For example I would be interested in the Dynapower and all its bits, the CLB levers, and perhaps the wheels if the pics were better. Maybe the headset if you could identify it and its threading.

Last edited by Road Fan; 02-23-19 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 02-23-19, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
Do you know what size the seat post is? Can you read the threading on the BB cups? Any pics of the head luggs?

Did Cineli ever make the smaller French size stems? What is a 2.21 or something?
I would not be surprised if Cinelli did make French sizings - they were Italian but not strictly Italian market. And I think those bars are rather old, the photo does not seem to indicate the engravings. But the vaguely-visible "Cinelli" looks like a rather modern logo style, so I think those bars were just "what was in the closet." Nothing to indicate stem or bar clamp sizings.

Last edited by Road Fan; 02-23-19 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 02-23-19, 07:37 AM
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I missed the direct-brazed seatstay bridge - an upper-midrange frame, not a high-end frame. And the domed SS ends are nicely done, as is the paint at that point.
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Old 02-23-19, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
Do you know what size the seat post is? Can you read the threading on the BB cups? Any pics of the head luggs?

Did Cineli ever make the smaller French size stems? What is a 2.21 or something?
I have a French sized (22.0 mm) Cinelli 1A stem that I bought for my Peugeot PSV, back in the 80's.
Easy to tell if a Cinelli stem is French size as Cinelli drills a dimple on the stem shaft, below the insertion minimum line to denote French sized stems.
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Old 02-23-19, 08:10 AM
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Sorry for the lack of detail I used a cell phone and was exhausted, had been a long day.

Seat post is 26mm.



BB detail - Recessed so will have to remove to measure accurately


Detail of Headtube Crown race has no name



Trim top of forks


Seatpost cluster Couldn't get photo to stay turned!


Simplex drop outs
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Old 02-23-19, 08:13 AM
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Perhaps now I have a clue.

Headtube shows that at one pint it had a badge with three points of attachment. Laying on work bench I found a Calton cycle works headbadge. Will check and see if it has three holes


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Old 02-23-19, 08:14 AM
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PX-10! Somebody had to say it and eventually would have, not that I think that's what it is.
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Old 02-23-19, 08:17 AM
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looks like a PX10 to me too
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Old 02-23-19, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
PX-10! Somebody had to say it and eventually would have, not that I think that's what it is.
I am going with 1960's PX-10. Does the non drive side rear dropout have the tab on bottom of dropout?
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Old 02-23-19, 08:41 AM
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Sorry - should have said headtube has initials RB stamped into it between 2nd and 3rd holes.
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Old 02-23-19, 08:48 AM
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Assuming the post is correctly sized for the frame, 26.0mm is too small for a PX-10. I'd have expected 26.4 - 26.6mm. However, it is the correct size for a metric plain gauge Reynolds 531 seat tube.

The original owner owner date of passing seems to be suspicious, given that the dropouts appear to the 2nd version of the Simplex dropout that was introduced in very late 1972, for the 1973 model year. Also, it has even later Dura-Ace calipers and what appears to be a (Shimano?) cartridge BB. I don't recall them being available in French threading, so maybe it's Velo Orange?
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Old 02-23-19, 09:00 AM
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There was a Carlton headbadge sitting there so I got that thrown in and wonder if the bage is for this bike??? Have to check if it has three holes on rear.

I was thrown off by the hole in the bottom. To allow water to drain? To add grease?
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Old 02-23-19, 09:22 AM
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WGB-

I'm betting this is an early 70's Peugeot PX 10 based on the lugs, dropouts, head badge hole pattern and the 26 mm seatpost. The non-Simplex replacement post is under sized for the frame. The other bike (#2) is a Carlton based on the crown, dropouts and seat cluster treatment, perhaps a Contre le Montre.
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Old 02-23-19, 09:29 AM
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WGB-

Wrong on #2 . That's a replacement Tange fork. The wrapover stay tops look more Falcon or, possibly, Holdsworth than the capped versions on a Contre le Montre.
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Old 02-23-19, 09:33 AM
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I should post that the PO for these bikes was into cycling for a long time and per neighbors when he got cancer he got rid of his "good bikes". He had a very nice looking older mountain bike for a winter bike which was also rust free and that he rode regularly until he couldn't ride anymore, Since we use alot of salt here that is saying something. There were a bunch of old bars some marked GB and some Mafac brakes, various pumps and a stripped Bianchi frame. As an example I saw this Brooks seat. dusty and crusted and brought it home and all I did was wipe down top with dry cloth, then damp cloth. I was fast running out of cash and had to make some decisions and I chose the two I chose.





Apparently he was a go to guy for bike repairs and a jack of all trades. into bicycles, motorcycle and cars. I saw old school torches and solder but there was so much clutter and I had only a bit of time to process everything I saw. Part of me is wondering if he built these bikes from scratch, buying the lugs and tubes and brazing.
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Old 02-23-19, 09:34 AM
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Bertinjim - therre was a a spare fork there! I will Pm seller and see if she can set aside.
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Old 02-23-19, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim
WGB-

I'm betting this is an early 70's Peugeot PX 10 based on the lugs, dropouts, head badge hole pattern and the 26 mm seatpost. The non-Simplex replacement post is under sized for the frame. The other bike (#2) is a Carlton based on the crown, dropouts and seat cluster treatment, perhaps a Contre le Montre.
The 1973 PX-10 did use the fancy Nervex lugs.I have owned both 1972 and 1973 PX-10s.
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Old 02-23-19, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1
Simplex DO's point towards the bike, being French...
Maybe a Peugeot, as also the rear brake bridge that do not have reinforcing tabs and the domed stay ends at the DO's seems to suggest.
I had a Flying Scot that had Simplex dropouts.
Not saying the bike is a Scot but the Simplex dropouts were used by UK builders.
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Old 02-23-19, 02:44 PM
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-----

Appears Monsieur Philippe Bois is abiding within the shell.

-----
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